Ambala to station first squadron of MMRCA fighters

[Secur]

FOC simply means that that version of LCA will be completely done with the upgrades, combat-readiness and any further upgrades will be on Mk-II. But FOC in 2015 has nothing to do with when it will inducted.

Now that you ask me for proof, can you really give proof of Pakistan having one?

Kid , do not talk about things which you do not have an iota of knowledge about ... I figured your level when you posted those jokes about what really are basic ammunitions ... You simply aren't aware of the entire procedure , are you ? ... How exactly are you going to induct the aircraft before it gets the FOC ? Modifications and Upgradation of an aircraft have nothing to do with these certifications ... Get it in your head ...

The initial operational clearance (IOC) for India's locally designed Tejas Light Combat Aircraft (LCA) has been further delayed to mid-2013 . IAF officials estimate the single-engine LCA will eventually secure IOC by mid-2013, with final operational clearance (FOC) following in 2015.

its active squadron service with the Indian Air Force (IAF) to 2015, if not beyond ...

Tejas IOC pushed back to 2013

But it became clear later that Tejas had only achieved partial IOC. It would have to be followed by IOC-II to certify the fighter was fully airworthy. Moreover, it would require the final operational clearance (FOC), with integration of all weapons and other systems, before it could be deemed combat-worthy.


http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/...laims-Tejas-inducted/articleshow/13421664.cms

 

[Ping]

It was the prototype in China which was carrying it. Even if we go by your logic and say JF-17 has done release test of SD-10, it only means it is still undergoing testing, and testing is not fully complete. Which is why proof of SD-10 in operational squadrons is necessary to prove it is inducted into PAF.

The Basic purpose of this project is still achievable. It could very well fully induct this missile in operational squadron next month or even a year from now. But as of now, no proof exists. Only speculations and assumptions of induction.

 

[Secur]

It was the prototype in China which was carrying it. Even if we go by your logic and say JF-17 has done release test of SD-10, it only means it is still undergoing testing, and testing is not fully complete. Which is why proof of SD-10 in operational squadrons is necessary to prove it is inducted into PAF.

Yes , I didn't deny it ! No , it can also mean that the missile has been integrated and Pakistan has it in the inventory ... Well , ISPR doesn't reveal much , do not expect any pictures or videos of JFT carrying SD-10 in operational squadrons , the airshows showed the aircraft carrying PL-12 , there are insider reports from people working in PAF that confirm its integration though ...

The Basic purpose of this project is still achievable. It could very well fully induct this missile in operational squadron next month or even a year from now. But as of now, no proof exists. Only speculations and assumptions of induction.

Nah , it isn't considering the BVR capability was the very reason for which the PAF pursued the project to replace all other aging aircraft with a single low cost fighter with decent capabilities ... The JFT has been operational for years now , it was completed in record time and next year the third squadron is going to be raised ... There exists a picture of it carrying SD-10 in China and the Farnborough airshow and there are insider reports which believe it or not are the standard source of information until ISPR choses to it ...

Already tested, certified and inducted .

Source: Test Pilot

I will say it again, there is no point of continuing a discussion unless you research more on PAF's capabilities. Start with the Military Aviation section, and work your work through it.

Believe what you want , doesn't change nothing ...

 

[EzioAltaïr]

Kid , do not talk about things which you do not have an iota of knowledge about ... I figured your level when you posted those jokes about what really are basic ammunitions ... You simply aren't aware of the entire procedure , are you ? ... How exactly are you going to induct the aircraft before it gets the FOC ? Modifications and Upgradation of an aircraft have nothing to do with these certifications ... Get it in your head ...

If I'm to choose between believing the IAF and you, my bets are on IAF. They have said that the Flying Daggers will be ready by the end of this year/beginning of the next. You seem to have trouble accepting it. Are you really so terribly scared that they can shoot down the Junk Fighters?

The initial operational clearance (IOC) for India's locally designed Tejas Light Combat Aircraft (LCA) has been further delayed to mid-2013 . IAF officials estimate the single-engine LCA will eventually secure IOC by mid-2013, with final operational clearance (FOC) following in 2015.

its active squadron service with the Indian Air Force (IAF) to 2015, if not beyond ...

Tejas IOC pushed back to 2013

But it became clear later that Tejas had only achieved partial IOC. It would have to be followed by IOC-II to certify the fighter was fully airworthy. Moreover, it would require the final operational clearance (FOC), with integration of all weapons and other systems, before it could be deemed combat-worthy.


UPA report card claims Tejas inducted - The Times of India

Yes yes, you have posted enough articles. Now tell me where does it say that the IAF won't be using the LCA before 2015?

LCA 'Tejas' to be inducted in Air Force this year: DRDO chief - Economic Times

Here you go. From the DRDO chief no less. Now I assume you in your perpetual denial mode will just deny it again, and say it's propaganda. Someone is really feeling sorry for the JFTs.

 

[EzioAltaïr]

Yes , I didn't deny it ! No , it can also mean that the missile has been integrated and Pakistan has it in the inventory ... Well , ISPR doesn't reveal much , do not expect any pictures or videos of JFT carrying SD-10 in operational squadrons , the airshows showed the aircraft carrying PL-12 , there are insider reports from people working in PAF that confirm its integration though ...

Insider reports my foot. There are insider reports from officials at our Defexpo that the F-INSAS rifle is ready, the INSAS is to be upgraded with P-Rails, and that the army is not seeking a replacement for the INSAS. These reports have zero credibility until we see the results. And you have refused to answer my question. Doesn't the GoP procure arms for troops? Then aren't they required to report to the people where their taxes are gone?

 

[Secur]

If I'm to choose between believing the IAF and you, my bets are on IAF.

You are not choosing between me or IAF because I didn't write these reports ... Then exactly what is that ? Did you check the dates of the both reports ?

The initial operational clearance (IOC) for India's locally designed Tejas Light Combat Aircraft (LCA) has been further delayed to mid-2013 . IAF officials estimate the single-engine LCA will eventually secure IOC by mid-2013, with final operational clearance (FOC) following in 2015.

its active squadron service with the Indian Air Force (IAF) to 2015, if not beyond ...

Tejas IOC pushed back to 2013

But it became clear later that Tejas had only achieved partial IOC. It would have to be followed by IOC-II to certify the fighter was fully airworthy. Moreover, it would require the final operational clearance (FOC), with integration of all weapons and other systems, before it could be deemed combat-worthy.


UPA report card claims Tejas inducted - The Times of India

Care to explain it ?

As for your statement of DRDO chief , he said that Tejas is going to be inducted this year , right ? The news is dated Apr 29, 2012 ... Whilst the sources I quoted are dated 8/31/2012 ... So the latest development is that the fighter junk has been delayed once again ...

Insider reports my foot.

The same from me for Indian denial mode and false claims of JFT not capable of firing BVR ... Goes both ways , kid ... Learnt the definition of basic ammo , yet ?

 

[EzioAltaïr]

The initial operational clearance (IOC) for India's locally designed Tejas Light Combat Aircraft (LCA) has been further delayed to mid-2013 . IAF officials estimate the single-engine LCA will eventually secure IOC by mid-2013, with final operational clearance (FOC) following in 2015.

its active squadron service with the Indian Air Force (IAF) to 2015, if not beyond ...

Tejas IOC pushed back to 2013

But it became clear later that Tejas had only achieved partial IOC. It would have to be followed by IOC-II to certify the fighter was fully airworthy. Moreover, it would require the final operational clearance (FOC), with integration of all weapons and other systems, before it could be deemed combat-worthy.


UPA report card claims Tejas inducted - The Times of India

Care to explain it ?

Look here, you seem to be losing the point. Regardless of FOC, iOC-I, IOC-II, the Flying Daggers are to be re-equipped by the end of the year. Nothing else matters. It is combat worthy, but will undergo further improvements, to make it even better.

As for your statement of DRDO chief , he said that Tejas is going to be inducted this year , right ? The news is dated Apr 29, 2012 ... Where exactly is the operational squadron of LCA ?

The year still has 2 months left. And end of the year, can also January of the next.

The same from me for Indian denial mode and false claims of JFT not capable of firing BVR ... Goes both ways , kid ... Learnt the definition of basic ammo , yet ?

Well, then go on and show me logical proof of JFT being capable of firing BVR, and a report showing Pakistan buy them. Either one or the other alone is not enough. Since you have already proved that it is BVR capable, I'll leave that there. Now please, show me where does it say that Pakistan has any BVRs to equip the JFT?

 

[Secur]

Look here, you seem to be losing the point. Regardless of FOC, iOC-I, IOC-II, the Flying Daggers are to be re-equipped by the end of the year. Nothing else matters. It is combat worthy, but will undergo further improvements, to make it even better.

The year still has 2 months left. And end of the year, can also January of the next.

Well, then go on and show me logical proof of JFT being capable of firing BVR, and a report showing Pakistan buy them. Since you have already proved that it is BVR capable, I'll leave that there. Now please, show me where does it say that Pakistan has any BVRs to equip the JFT?

Kid , check the dates of the both reports before ridiculing yourself ... ... The DRDO chief issued that statement in July while the report of aircraft IOC being pushed to 2013 came in August ... So , what is the latest ? Yes , somehow the Tejas can be inducted without IOC and FOC ... It isn't even fully air worthy according to the reports and you are talking about it being combat ready ... What are you smoking ?

Oh it has , end of 2012 right ? Since that particular statement was issued this year ...

I am not the one claiming ... Your lot is ... So the burden of proof once again is on you Simple rule in a debate ...

 

[EzioAltaïr]

Kid , check the dates of the both reports before ridiculing yourself ... Yes , somehow the Tejas can be inducted without IOC and FOC What are you smoking ? Why there was so much delay if you had to get no certification whatsoever ?

Oh it has , end of 2012 right ? Since that particular statement was issued this year ...

Like I said, believe what you want. The LCA is ready to kick a$$ by 2013.

I am not the one claiming ... Your lot is ... So the burden of proof once again is on you

BS, in our case our proof simply means absence of proof on your side. Pakistan won't print a report saying "We haven't bought SD-10". But they most certainly should print if they did buy it. So the absence of any news, is ample proof.

 

[Ping]

Nah , it isn't considering the BVR capability was the very reason for which the PAF pursued the project to replace all other aging aircraft with a single low cost fighter with decent capabilities ... The JFT has been operational for years now , it was completed in record time and next year the third squadron is going to be raised ... There exists a picture of it carrying SD-10 in China and the Farnborough airshow and there are insider reports which believe it or not are the standard source of information until ISPR choses to it ...

The main question is operational deployment, not testing. Kanwa news report said that SD-10 is still under testing, meaning testing is still not done. And it makes sense for PAF to accept the BVR missile with top notch performance since this is one of the main reason for pursuing the JF-17 project. The last thing PAF will need is an half-assed missile, with poor hit probability.

It's much better waiting for a good missile than inducting a not so good one.

Yes , I didn't deny it ! No , it can also mean that the missile has been integrated and Pakistan has it in the inventory ... Well , ISPR doesn't reveal much , do not expect any pictures or videos of JFT carrying SD-10 in operational squadrons , the airshows showed the aircraft carrying PL-12 , there are insider reports from people working in PAF that confirm its integration though ...

Yup, you can assume like that as well as you can assume like my assumption as well. As these are only assumptions, like I said before.

 

[Secur]

Like I said, believe what you want. The LCA is ready to kick a$$ by 2013.

BS, in our case our proof simply means absence of proof on your side. Pakistan won't print a report saying "We haven't bought SD-10". But they most certainly should print if they did buy it. So the absence of any news, is ample proof.

I am believing your sources ... If you cant rationally debate then there's no reason to ridicule yourself further ... The report of LCA Tejas IOC pushed to 2013 came much later than the DRDO's statement since it was the latest development ... What do you want to prove ? Yeah , it can fly without getting an FOC

Yes , Pakistan will not ... ISPR doesn't like to report every single purchase , projects or capabilities so forget about it ... You didn't even know the Ra'ad , Babur and A100 until the PA chose to reveal it , did you ? ... So do not expect them of releasing pictures to convince Indians in denial mode

 

[Secur]

The main question is operational deployment, not testing. Kanwa news report said that SD-10 is still under testing, meaning testing is still not done. And it makes sense for PAF to accept the BVR missile with top notch performance since this is one of the main reason for pursuing the JF-17 project. The last thing PAF will need is an half-assed missile, with poor hit probability. It's much better waiting for a good missile than inducting a not so good one.

You will never know officially until ISPR choses to reveal it ... Well , your first main claim in this thread was the JFT being not capable of firing BVR's ... Kanwa news report ? Kamra perhaps ? Sorry , there is no such thing ! It is foolish to think that testing hasn't been completed after 5 years and almost 3 squadrons have been inducted ... What do you mean by a half - assed missile ? SD-10 has been operational on other aircrafts as well so its capabilities are not something that can be questioned ...

 

[Ping]

You will never know officially until ISPR choses to reveal it ... Well , your first main claim in this thread was the JFT being not capable of firing BVR's ... Kanwa news report ? Kamra perhaps ? Sorry , there is no such thing ! It is foolish to think that testing hasn't been completed after 5 years and almost 3 squadrons have been inducted ... What do you mean by a half - assed missile ? SD-10 has been operational on other aircrafts as well so its capabilities are not something that can be questioned ...

Arent you the one who was screaming about the info pool thread?
http://www.defence.pk/forums/jf-17-thunder/71435-jf-17-thunder-information-pool-23.html#post2893762
"- In 2011 the JF17 test fired: 1 x C802 (hit a seaborne target 90km away, max range 180km); 2 x LS-6 bombs, one is a 500kg GPS guided weapon with 60km range and CEP of 15m, the other was a 250kg laser/IIR+GPS guided weapon with a range of 65km and CEP of 5.3-7.5m; SD10 and other weapons."

This is a chinese missile we are talking about. PAF rejected these missiles and radars and went for French missiles and radars. Now they are delaying the induction of this SD-10 and waiting to get it atleast to the same level of the french missiles.

 

[Secur]

^

No , just asking you to get yourself updated ...

Airforce Daily, November 2011 Issue ...

Of the three JF-17s, looking very smart in their 16 Squadron ‘Black Panther’ The aircraft makes a sharp turn during the display markings on the tail and fuel tanks, two were used for the flying display, one acting as a spare (11-128) for the other (11-134); while the other example (11-130) resided in the static display, with a plethora of new weapons that are operational on the jet, including the SD-10 Beyond Visual Range air-to-air missile, PL-5EII medium range air to air missile, WD-7 targeting pod, LT-2 1,000lb (454kg) laser guided bomb, C-802 anti-shipping missile and LS-6 Extended Range 1,000lb (454kg) bomb – converted from a dumb bomb into a ‘smart guided missile’ courtesy of a guidance kit which boosts its range to around 40 miles (60kms).

Settles it ?

 

[EzioAltaïr]

I am believing your sources ... If you cant rationally debate then there's no reason to ridicule yourself further ... The report of LCA Tejas IOC pushed to 2013 came much later than the DRDO's statement since it was the latest development ... What do you want to prove ? Yeah , it can fly without getting an FOC

And my question, is why can't it be inducted before the FOC is achieved? The PAF got it's first 20 JF-17s from China, which were infact, inferior to the next 40 that came. So what's the problem? FOC simply means that they won't upgrade that one further, and stop testing it.

And again, the squadron has already began to be worked on. Just wait 2 months, and see who laughs last.

Yes , Pakistan will not ... ISPR doesn't like to report every single purchase , projects or capabilities so forget about it ... You didn't even know the Ra'ad , Babur and A100 until the PA chose to reveal it , did you ? ... So do not expect them of releasing pictures to convince Indians in denial mode

Yeah, yeah, yeah. you are comparing a nuclear delivery system to an simple AA missile.

If Pakistan has to hide its AA missiles, just for the sake of having something behind closed doors, then I'm sorry to tell you, you guys really have nothing better to hide. USA hid it's UFOs behind closed doors. Pakistan hid it's BVRs.