Alleged 'Batman shooter' worked at Jewish camp

[Cloakedvessel]

Western experts as well as some Jews themselves.



Completely uncalled for.

Fred Leuchter American Gas Chamber Expert - No Gassings Ever Took Place - YouTube

Also, this video refutes all the nonsense of the gas chambers in Poland:

David Cole in Auschwitz Full Documentary - YouTube



A Jew already visited Poland and Auschwitz, he also debunked the lies of gas chambers in which Jews were gassed.

Also, another important fact, the concentration camp Dachau, which ended up in the portion of Europe under the Western Allies, was at first stated to be a "death camp" where Jews were supposedly "gassed", however after investigators investigated the camps site there was no proof that Dachau was a "death camp".

But the same wasn't the case in the territories which fell under Soviet occupation after the war. The Soviets made absurd claims of "gas chambers" and "death camps" yet they refused any independent expert investigation of those claims. Does that not signify that the Soviets claims were empty?

So these are your 'experts'?

Two disgraced 'experts', discredited by the scientific community?

One Fred Leuchter, an uncertified "capital punishment expert', who was paid $30.000 to defend a Holocaust denier against criminal charges. His so-called scientific work was subsequently proven false by many qualified scientists.

In October 1990, the commonwealth of Massachusetts brought criminal charges against Leuchter for representing himself as an engineer without a license.[2] Leuchter not only lacks an engineering license but has neither an engineering degree nor any other relevant professional certification or recognized credential - his education consists of a BA in history, which he completed in 1964. In 1991, the case was settled under the agreement that he will serve two years' probation for practicing engineering without a license.[28] He admits to having no formal training in toxicology, biology or chemistry.[2]

The original sources.

Errol Morris: Film

Execution 'Engineer' Settles Criminal Case - NYTimes.com

And the other one, David Cole, recanted his views 14 years ago. Try to keep tabs on your youtube video's.

This was his statement:

THE STATEMENT OF DAVID COLE
Prepared January 2, 1998

This statement is given in an attempt to set the record
straight about my current views regarding the Holocaust and
Holocaust denial. As anyone who follows the subject of
Holocaust denial knows, from 1991 until 1994 I was well
known in the movement as a Jewish Holocaust denier [a
self-described "revisionist"]. For the last three years I
have no longer been associated with this movement, having
realized that I was wrong and that the path I was taking
with my life was self-destructive and hurtful to others. I
have spent the last few years in silence on the subject of
my time with the denial movement, a silence caused mainly by
my shame at what I had done with my life and my desire to
distance myself from that life.

However, in that shame-induced silence, it has now been
brought to my attention that I have not gone as far as I
should have to make a clear and complete public statement in
order to set the record straight as to where I stand.

It is my great hope that this statement accomplishes that
task.

I would like to state for the record that there is no
question in my mind that during the Holocaust of Europe's
Jews during World War Two, the Nazis employed gas chambers
in an attempt to commit genocide against the Jews. At camps
in both Eastern and Western Europe, Jews were murdered in
gas chambers which employed such poison gasses as Zyklon B
and carbon monoxide (in the Auschwitz camp, for example, the
gas chambers used Zyklon B). The evidence for this is
overwhelming and unmistakable.

The Nazis intended to kill all the Jews of Europe, and the
final death toll of this attempted genocide was six million.
This atrocity, unique in its scope and breadth, must never
be forgotten.

During my four years as a denier, I was wracked with
self-hate and loathing, a afact that many of my critics were
quick to point out. Indeed, this self-hatred was obvious to
most, but I was too blind to see it. The hate I had for
myself I took out on my people. I was seduced by
pseudo-historical nonsense and clever-sounding but empty
ideas and catch-phrases. When my eyes were finally opened,
thanks to several good, kind friends who had refused to give
up on me even when I was at my worst, I was horrified at
what I had done. My instinct was to flee and never look
back, but I now understand that I owe it to the people I
wronged to make a forceful repudiation of my earlier views.
I also owe a very large apology, not only to the many people
I enraged, and to the friends and family I hurt, but
especially to the survivors of the Holocaust, who deserve
only our respect and compassion, not re-victimization.

Therefore, to all of the above people, let me offer my most
humble and very, very sincere apology. I am sorry for what I
did, and I am sorry for the hurt I caused.

And just as I must set the record straight concerning my
views, it is also incumbent on me to set the record
straight regarding the video "documentaries" and media
appearances I did from 1991 to 1994. These "documentaries"
are merely videotaped garbage filled with self-hatred and
pseudo-intellectual nonsense. My "media appearances" were
nothing but an embarrassment. My glazed look, specious
reasoning, and talking-in-circles during my talk show
appearances would have hopefully alerted any astute views
that this was a man not in touch with reality.

It has been brought to my attention that Bradley Smith is
still using one of my videos in advertisements he is running
on college campuses. Therefore, I would like to make these
additional points: This video is being advertised without my
consent, and I denouce this video as being without worth.
Bradley Smith is no historian, and denial is no "historical
field." Students on college campuses should look elsewhere
to find out about the Holocaust. To these students I would
say, look to books like Professor Raul Hilberg's
"Destruction of the European Jews," Leni Yahil's "The
Holocaust," and Lucy Dawidowicz's "The War Against the Jews"
for correct information. If your school library doesn't
stock these books, have them order copies. Do not pay any
attention to any "David Cole" videos, except to rightly
denounce them as frauds.

I am thankful for being given the opportunity to make this
statement. This statement is made freely and under no
duress, and is quite willingly, even happily, given to Mr.
Irv Rubin of the Jewish Defense League for the widest
possible distribution. This statement is the most current
and accurate compilation of my views, and it supersedes any
previous writings, videos, or statements. It is my hope that
there will be no more confusion as to where I stand. I thank
you for letting me set the record straight.


[/s] David Cole

Subscribed and sworn to before me on January 5, 1998.

[/Mary Stewart]

[Notary seal]

Shofar FTP Archives: people/c/cole.david/cole.recants

 

[Solomon2]

This is what's hidden in Pakistani teaching of history. Even Arabs accept that the Palestinians left of their own free will to other countries, believing the Arabs would crush Israel

Yes, but I don't think this "hiding of history" is a sufficient explanation for the mess Pakistan is in. It isn't just a lack of knowledge that's the problem. If you want me to hazard a guess, I think it's a lack of justice: both justice experienced and its values.

For example, lots of Pakistanis know their army committed terrible crimes in 1971 - and they know no one was ever punished for it. Another: according to Anatoly Lieven, any Pakistani who attains a position of power is certain to abuse it - and usually nothing is done to right the injustices created; if there is resentment, it from citizens who themselves wish to attain arbitrary authority. And yet another: according to news articles I've read here even ordinary Pakistani citizens will have an arrangement with a protector of some sort who can keep the law at arms' length and enable them to steal electricity.

Furthermore, there is the attitude, best expressed by Agnostic Muslim I think, that just because someone commits a crime doesn't mean he should be prosecuted for it or even investigated; that is up to the authorities.

In short, in Pakistan justice is something either non existent or usually separate, even not connected to, the enforcement of contracts and laws in the courts. And many, many, Pakistani citizens accept that.

 

[RazPaK]

Exactly the problem: so many people want to believe in this falsehood. The truth is something many Pakistanis don't want to accept - even those who know it. One Pakistani woman even wrote an article last month that Pakistanis should simply believe in the falsehood and wish for Israel's destruction.

Were the Arabs not being driven out of their villages by Jewish groups that went by the names of Haganah, the Irgun Zvai Leumi and the Stern Gang?


I am not opposed to a Jewish Homeland fyi.

Your assumptions and predispositions are not fact.

 

[Desert Fox]

So these are you 'experts'?

An Orthodox Historian Finally Acknowledges: There is No Evidence for Nazi Gas Chambers
Robert Faurisson

Born in 1939, Jacques Baynac is a French historian who is the author of several books.1 A scholar whose sympathies lean to the left, he harbors a definite hostility toward revisionists (whom he calls "deniers"), and particularly toward revisionist writer and publisher Pierre Guillaume and myself. For years he affirmed the existence of Nazi homicidal gas chambers.

In 1996, though, Baynac acknowledged in two lengthy articles published in a Swiss daily newspaper that, taking everything into account, one is forced to admit -- even if it is "as painful to say as it is to hear" -- that the well-known "testimonies" are not sufficient proof of wartime homicidal gas chambers, and that it is simply not possible to prove, scientifically, that the homicidal gas chambers actually existed.

Given this lack of any direct proof, he continued, it will now be necessary to seek an indirect proof. Because one cannot prove that Nazi gas chambers existed, he goes on to write, it will instead be necessary to prove that it is impossible that they did not exist! Specifically, he writes: "If scholarly history cannot, because of the lack of documentation, establish the reality of a fact, it can, by means of documentation, establish that the unreality of this fact is itself unreal." 2

Baynac made these remarkable statements in two lengthy articles published in the Swiss newspaper Le Nouveau Quotidien de Lausanne, September 2, 1996 (p. 16), and September 3, 1996 (p. 14).
The Evasion of Historians

In the first of these two articles, Baynac begins by deploring France's anti-revisionist "Fabius-Gayssot" law of July 13, 1990, which he says allows "the deniers' sect" to use the courts as podiums for their views. He notes that this law has been criticized by Claude Imbert of Le Point magazine, historian Pierre Vidal-Naquet (who has said: "I am ready to kill Faurisson, but not to pursue him in a court of law!"), Madeleine Rebérioux (former president of the "Human Rights League"), anti-revisionist attorney Charles Korman, and several parliamentary deputies of the Gaullist RPR party.

Baynac affirms that the revisionists/deniers have plenty of reason for rejoicing, especially since the Abbé Pierre affair "changed the atmosphere" in their favor. Baynac also notes that among the anti-revisionists, "disarray has given way to consternation," that historian Pierre Vidal-Naquet "is grieved," that the prominent French-Jewish intellectual Bernard-Henri Lévy "is beside himself," that Pierre-André Taguieff "is frightened," and that the front cover of an issue of the French magazine L'Événement du jeudi ("The Thursday Event") proclaimed "The Victory of the Revisionists."

Baynac denounces Jorge Semprun, an intellectual and former deportee, for having irresponsibly "murdered" a book by Florent Brayard that attacks French revisionist writer Paul Rassinier. Baynac believes that among Leftists there has come into being a "paranoia," a "witch-hunt" (in the words of Jean-François Kahn), and a "disastrous chaos." He notes that Simone Veil and Dominique Jamet share his dislike of the Fabius-Gayssot law, and that "one refuses to debate" the revisionists.

Baynac recalls the declaration by "34 reputable historians" published in the prominent French daily Le Monde on February 21, 1979 -- a stupefying declaration that responded to but did not answer my challenge, which had appeared earlier in the paper, calling for an explanation of how, technically, the magical Nazi gas chambers were supposed to have operated. In this regard, Baynac writes of the "evasion" of historians in general, and goes on to declare that "the historians have retreated."
Neither Documents, Traces, Nor Proofs

In the second of his two articles, Baynac deplores the fact that anti-revisionist historians have trusted Jean-Claude Pressac, a pharmacist and "amateur historian," who now concludes that the number of Jewish and non-Jewish dead at Auschwitz amounts "to a total of 600,000 victims." 3 Baynac derides historian François Bayrou, France's Minister of National Education, who, conscious of the difficulties in trying to prove the "Holocaust" genocide and wartime homicidal gas chambers, advocates recourse to a "less burdened" historical method. Baynac sees in this a "light historical concept."

Baynac believes that Nazi gas chambers existed, but thinks that those who have tried to prove their existence have overly employed an "ascientific" methodology, rather than a "scientific" one. In this "ascientific" method, he goes on, "testimony prevails," while in the "scientific" method documents prevail. However, he adds with regret, one is able only to ascertain "the absence of documents, traces, or other material proofs." 4

Baynac recalls the admission made in 1988 by Jewish-American historian Arno Mayer, who teaches at Princeton University: "Sources for the study of the gas chambers are at once rare and unreliable." 5 Baynac goes on to say that "we do not have available indispensable elements for a normal undertaking of the historical method," and that "one must remain silent for lack of documents." He concludes with a remarkable concession: "it is necessary to recognize that the lack of traces involves the inability to directly establish the reality of the existence of homicidal gas chambers." 6 When he writes "the lack of traces," he means, as already mentioned, "the absence of documents, traces, or other material proofs."
Proofs for Tomorrow?

Baynac's study concludes with the suggestion, already mentioned: because it is decidedly impossible to prove that the gas chambers existed, let us try in the future to prove that these gas chambers were not able not to have existed!

This is an example of admitting a present-day inadequacy while postulating an act of faith for the future. Baynac is naive. He believes that because so many historians have emphatically affirmed the reality of the "Holocaust" horrors and the homicidal gas chambers, and so many survivors have claimed to have seen them, therefore they undoubtedly existed. He does not realize that, with time, one discovers that the writing of history is full of histories that are more or less imaginary.

He continues to believe in the gas chambers, just as he seems to persist in believing in Communism. Tomorrow, one will find proof for these gas chambers. Tomorrow, Communism will be true. Tomorrow, one will get a free lunch. Tomorrow, one will finally have the proof that National Socialism is the incarnation of evil and that Communism is the incarnation of good. Let's hear it for the eternal credulity of the French intelligentsia!

Baynac joins, as it were, the "34 reputable historians" who, as already mentioned, in 1979 published one of the most monumental pieces of nonsense of French academic life: "It is not necessary to ask oneself how, technically, such a mass murder was possible. It was technically possible because it happened." Baynac thus adds his name to those of the 34 orthodox scholars who, without intending it, were obliged to agree with the revisionist historians on several important issues. This inevitably raises a question: how can judges continue to condemn revisionists for contesting a crime that, as Baynac now acknowledges, has not been proven?
Embarrassing Gas Chambers

It is quite clear that the "Nazi gas chambers" are ever more embarrassing for those who uphold the "Holocaust" thesis of Jewish extermination. As early as 1984, Pierre Vidal-Naquet warned friends who were already attempting to abandon the "gas chambers" that to do so would be "to capitulate in open country" 7 And in 1987 a periodical hostile to revisionism published a letter by two French-Jewish teachers, Ida Zajdel and Marc Ascione, suggesting that the Nazis had faked their confessions, and only mentioned gas chambers in order to plant "a delayed action 'bomb' against the Jews, an instrument of diversion and, why not, of blackmail." 8

There are many other examples worth citing, but I will content myself here with citing just three recent ones: that of Elie Wiesel (in 1994), that of a Dutch professor of Jewish-Polish origin, Michel Korzec (in 1995), and finally, that of the Jewish-American historian Daniel Jonah Goldhagen (in 1996):

In 1994, Wiesel wrote in his memoir, All Rivers Run to the Sea: "Let the gas chambers remain closed to prying eyes, and to imagination." 9 In plain English this means: "Let's not try to see, or even imagine, a Nazi gas chamber." What follows inevitably from this is that Wiesel is quite skeptical of the alleged witnesses who, supposedly, have described what happened in the gas chambers.
In 1995 Michel Korzec declared that too much emphasis has been put on the gas chambers and the number of gassing victims. With dialectic contortions worthy of a cabalist, he went on to argue that it was the Germans, and not the Jews, who are responsible for this error. In Korzec's view, many more Germans participated in the "mass murder" of Jews than has been assumed, and in many more places across Europe -- many more than the small number of Germans supposedly involved in gas chamber killings of Jews. 10
In his 1996 study, Hitler's Willing Executioners, an exceedingly anti-German work, Daniel J. Goldhagen wrote: "Gassing was really epiphenomenal to the Germans' slaughter of Jews." 11 And in a 1996 interview with a major Austrian weekly news magazine he stated: "For me the industrialized annihilation of the Jews is not the central question in explaining the Holocaust ... The gas chambers are a symbol. But it is absurd to believe that the Holocaust would not have taken place without the gas chambers." 12

So, by 1996 the gas chambers had become a symbol!
A Swiss Newspaper Sets An Example

In recent years I have described at various times, in samizdat essays and in interviews recorded by Ernst Zündel in Canada, this evolution by the "exterminationists" regarding the "Nazi gas chambers." In a text I wrote on September 22, 1993 (and which I intend to publish in my forthcoming book), I predicted that one day organized Jewry eventually would be obliged to give up the lie about Nazi gas chambers, while at the same time still insisting that "the Holocaust" is an irrefutable truth. Consistent with this, the US Holocaust Memorial Museum in Washington, has decided not to provide any physical representation of a German homicidal gas chamber (except for a door of a delousing gas chamber and an absurd and "artistic" model). 13

The two 1996 articles by Jacques Baynac in the Swiss daily paper are only a stage in this metamorphosis of official historiography. Baynac's articles confirm that, for quite some time now, historians have broken with the facade of unanimity. Step by step, historians are rejecting the simplistic conclusions of the Nuremberg Tribunal regarding gas chambers and genocide.

When French judges declare that challenging the existence of Nazi gas chambers is to challenge "crimes against humanity" (which the genocide of the Jews would have been), they are correct. However, if there is no longer any proof of a specific murder weapon, logically there is no longer any proof of a specific crime. This conclusion, rather embarrassing for the judges who dare to condemn revisionism, follows inevitably from the position taken by Baynac, a position that, once again, is not in any way peculiar to him but represents a general trend in orthodox historiography. Baynac is simply saying out loud what his colleagues have been thinking in silence.

In publishing these two articles by Baynac, Le Nouveau Quotidien of Lausanne, normally so hostile toward revisionism, has shown both discernment and respect for its readers. 14

Jacques Baynac: "There are no proofs, yet I believe."

Robert Faurisson: "There are no proofs, therefore I refuse to believe."

For the first: freedom of expression.

For the second: a sentence of one month to one year of prison, a fine of 2,000 to 300,000 francs, and additional penalties.

Notes

Among the most noteworthy of Baynac's books have been La Terreur sous Lénine ("The Terror Under Lenin," 1975), Ravachol et ses compagnons ("Ravachol and His Companions," 1976), Mai retrouvé ("May [1968] Revisited," 1978), Les Socialistes révolutionnaires russes, 1881-1917 ("The Russian Revolutionary Socialists, 1881-1917," 1979), and La Révolution gorbatchévienne ("The Gorbachev Revolution," 1988). In 1987, he published, along with historian Nadine Fresco, an anti-revisionist article in the Paris daily Le Monde entitled "Comment s'en débarrasser?" ("How Can We Get Rid of Them?" [that is, the revisionists]), June 18, 1987, p. 2.

"... si l'histoire scientifique ne peut, faute de documents, établir la réalité d'un fait, elle peut, avec des documents, établir que l'irréalité de ce fait est elle-même irréelle. En établissant que l'inexistence des chambres à gaz est impossible, on liquidera définitivement la prétention du négationnisme à se poser comme une école historique ..." Le Nouveau Quotidien (Lausanne), Sept. 3, 1996, p. 14.
La Déportation: Le Système concentrationnaire nazi ("The Deportation: The Nazi Concentration Camp System"), a work published under the direction of François Bédarida and Laurent Gervereau (BDIC, 1995), p. 196. Here Pressac estimates from 600,000 to 800,000 Auschwitz deaths,
This is quite a drop from the figure of 9,000,000 given in the widely-viewed film "Night and Fog," or 4,000,000 as established by the Nuremberg Tribunal and as inscribed until 1990 on plaques at the monument at the Auschwitz camp site (where since 1995 the new figure is 1,500,000).
On Pressac, see also: R. Faurisson, "Auschwitz: Technique and Operation of the Gas Chambers," Spring 1991 Journal, pp. 25-66 (Part I), and Summer 1991 Journal, pp. 133-175 (Part II); Arthur R. Butz, "Some Thoughts on Pressac's Opus," May-June 1993 Journal, pp. 23-37; Serge Thion, "A French Scholar Responds to a Widely-Acclaimed Anti-Revisionist Work," July-August 1994 Journal, pp. 28 ff.; "'The Jewish World' Against Pressac," Jan.-Feb. 1996 Journal, p. 41.
"... l'absence de documents, de traces ou d'autres preuves matérielles ..." Le Nouveau Quotidien, Sept. 3, 1996, p. 14.
A. Mayer, Why Did the Heavens Not Darken?: The "Final Solution" in History (New York: Pantheon, 1989), p. 362.
"... il faut reconnaître que la manque de traces entraîne l'incapacité d'établir directement la réalité de l'existence des chambres à gaz homicides." Le Nouveau Quotidien (Lausanne), Sept. 3, 1996, p. 14.
"Le Secret partagé" ("The Shared Secret"), Le Nouvel Observateur, Sept. 21, 1984, p. 80.
Article 31, Jan.-Feb. 1987, p. 22.
E. Wiesel, All Rivers Run to the Sea, Memoirs (New York: Random House/ Knopf, 1995), p. 74.
M. Korzec, "De mythe van de efficiënte massamoord" ("The Myth of Efficient Mass Murder"), Intermediair, December 15, 1995. See also: R. Faurisson, "A New Version of the Holocaust Story," March-April 1996 Journal, pp. 22-23.
D. J. Goldhagen, Hitler's Willing Executioners: Ordinary Germans and the Holocaust (New York: Knopf, 1996), p. 521, n. 81. In this same book (p. 523, n. 4) Goldhagen also writes, "The imbalance of attention devoted to the gas chambers needs to be corrected."
Profil (Vienna), September 9, 1996, p. 75: "Die industrielle Vernichtung der Juden ist für mich nicht die Kernfrage zur Erklärung des Holocaust ... Die Gaskammern sind ein Symbol. Es ist aber ein Unsinn zu glauben, daß der Holocaust ohne Gaskammern nicht stattgefunden hätte."
During a visit to the US Holocaust Memorial Museum on August 30, 1994, I met with the Museum's Research Director, Michael Berenbaum. He told me, in the presence of witnesses, that "the decision had been made not to present any physical representation of a Nazi gas chamber." See also: R. Faurisson, "The US Holocaust Memorial Museum: A Challenge," July-August 1993 Journal, pp. 14-17; "Gas Chamber Door Fraudulently Portrayed at US Holocaust Museum," September-October 1993 Journal, p. 39; and, R. Faurisson, "Auschwitz: Facts and Legend," July-August 1997 Journal, pp. 16-17.
In the Baynac article in the September 2 issue of Le Nouveau Quotidien, p. 16, there are three minor errors: in the second column, one should read "Florent Brayard" (instead of "Florent Rassinier"); in the third column, "Jean-François Kahn" (in place of "Khan"); and, in the forth column, "Il ne faut pas se demander comment techniquement ...," instead of "Il ne faut pas se demander si techniquement ...," or, "It is not necessary to ask oneself how" (instead of "ask oneself if").

About the author:

Robert Faurisson was educated at the Paris Sorbonne, and served as a professor at the University of Lyon in France from 1974 until 1990. He was a specialist of text and document analysis. His writings on the Holocaust issue have appeared in four books and numerous scholarly articles, many of which have been published in this Journal.

This essay is a translation and adaptation of a text written in September 1996.
Bibliographic information

Author:
Faurisson, Robert

Title:
An Orthodox Historian Finally Acknowledges: There is No Evidence for Nazi Gas Chambers

Source:
The Journal for Historical Review (INSTITUTE FOR HISTORICAL REVIEW --)

Date:
July/August 1998

Issue:
Volume 17 number 4

Location:
Page 24

ISSN:
0195-6752
Attribution:
"Reprinted from The Journal of Historical Review, PO Box 2739, Newport Beach, CA 92659, USA. Domestic subscriptions $40 per year; foreign subscriptions $60 per year."

Please send a copy of all reprints to the Editor.

And the other one, David Cole, recanted his views 14 years ago. Try to keep tabs on your youtube video's.

Yeah, after receiving so many death threats to himself and his family as well as being stalked. Wow, how bravely of holohoax believers to force their views down others throats through death threats.


On David Cole's recant:

The funny thing about Cole's retraction is that in a cosmic way it simply confirms what revisionists have been saying all along. For over twenty years, revisionists have said that the German confessions, wildly inaccurate and contradictory, were given not so much in response to direct physical torture as from the desire to protect themselves and above all their families from retaliation and hardship. For Cole's retraction, the JDL boasts that it was the result of their previous page, and that Cole "was afraid for his life and the relatives he supposedly is taking care of." So for those who didn't believe it possible that the Germans involved in the concentration camps could have been intimidated into making abject confessions, the idea is strikingly confirmed by Cole's retraction, and furthermore the JDL is waving the proof right under your nose.

David Cole forced to recant his revisionist views


The constantly changing holohoax number. Maybe in the future it will be 6 billion gassed to death, who knows:

1948:

1980's:

And before that:

 

[Solomon2]

Were the Arabs not being driven out of their villages by Jewish groups that went by the names of Haganah, the Irgun Zvai Leumi and the Stern Gang?

The Haganah was answerable to the main Zionist leadership under Ben-Gurion and became the IDF; the others were forcibly integrated into the IDF or disbanded. But no, according to the best histories I know - Benny Morris' - only a few villages (mostly in the Galilee) and two large towns had their Arabs forcibly displaced, and that was after the vast majority of Arabs had departed. Israel remains ~20% Jewish today - a stark contrast to the approximately 20 Arab states who kicked out their Jewish inhabitants and seized their realty and property in the 1920-1980 period. (The proceeds from this sectarian thievery usually went to strengthening the local dictatorship - Lebanon being the primary exception, I think, as its Jews were compelled to leave but could retain their property and some even collect rents.)

Your assumptions and predispositions are not fact.

That's the hurdle you have to overcome. Do you even have the desire to risk studying the truth? This has been a problem with Pakistani students for years, that they see college study as a tool to prove their prejudices rather than following the evidence.

 

[Mercenary]

You're giving me the whole timeline of the war. Did i deny the fact that Germany was fighting a one front war until June 6th? How is this supposed to change the fact that Germany had a shortage of food, ammunition, and supplies by 1944-45?? In war the soldier is always the top priority so of course they would reserve food supplies for their troops.

I gave you the whole timeline because your facts are so totally wrong. You claimed that Germany was fighting a two front war and thus did not have the means to carry out the holocaust. I just proved to you that it was only in the last year of the war did Germany fight a two front war. As for soldier being the top priority, I would agree with you, but since Hitler installed himself as Supreme Commander of the Germany Forces since late 1941 that rational thinking goes out the window. Germany handicapped its soldiers by concentrating its efforts into killing Jews. Look at Stalingrad, Courtland Peninsula, Battle of Bulge, all foolish military decisions that no sane commander would have made.

The allies had the ability to inflict heavy losses on German population centers even before 1943, the Luftwaffe was vastly outnumbered and was engaged on two fronts. Also the German war machine was receiving raw materials from throughout NAZI occupied Europe, therefore the allies had to target railroads and supply convoys throughout NAZI occupied Europe, add to that the partisans and French underground resistance who harassed troop convoys, blew up railway networks, etc.

Wrong again. It was only in 1943 that the first big wave of Allied bombing began on Germany. The Luftwaffe had its forces tied up in two fronts but it did have AA batteries which took a murderous toll on Allied Air Power. And it was only in 1943 when by sheer numbers did the Allies achieve air superiorty over the Germans. The Allies concentrated their efforts on Western Europe since they didn't have range in planes to bomb German targets in Eastern Europe. The only time when the Allies struck targets in Eastern Europe was when the American bombers bombed the Romanian Oil Fields from North Africa in late 1942. It was only in February 1945 when the Allies started bombing targets in Eastern Germany as their air bases grew closer to Germany.

And more than half of them were immobile due to fuel shortage, manpower, mechanical failures, and lack of spare parts.

And what is your point? You claimed that Germany was fighting a two front war and thus could not have the means to carry out the holocaust. I just proved to you that Germany was making more weapons than ever before. If they were handicapped by fuel shortages, then that has nothing to do with German industrial output or german tenacity in which they carried out the holocaust while fighting a two front war.

Wrong, the allied air campaign involved more than just targeting industrial centers. The City of Cologne was targeted before 1943, when the allies "gained" air superiority over Germany. 1,000 bombers took part in the bombing of the city which took place in may30/31, 1942. Not only cities were targeted but also strategic ammo and supply dumps.

When did I say the allied air campaign involved just targetting industrial centers? Read my response again. The British targetted German cities in night time operations while the Americans struck the industrial and strategic centers in daylight raids.

The 6th SS panzer army was deployed to Hungary and then Austria to guard oil fields, only after the battle of the bulge. Secondly, you don't make any sense, you mean to tell me the whole time the allies were engaging the Germans they didn't touch a single bridge, railroad, shipyard, yet you stated otherwise before. You're just contradicting yourself.

The 6th SS Panzer Army after being defeated in the Battle of the Bulge was ordered East. Hitler's commanders wanted the 6th SS Panzer Army to hold back the Soviet onslaught in central Poland and Germany but Hitler ordered it South towards Hungary. That happened in March 1945. The bombing of Dresden meant to slow down troop re-deployments occured in February 1945. The only time that Allies began the bomb German strategic targets in the East, which is beyond the scope of the Allied campaign was in early 1945 when it was clear that the Soviet winter offensive would be the decisive blow which will defeat Germany and thus began the bombing of targets beyond their scope of operations. Get your timeline right.

Wow, that's the lamest excuse i've ever read. So you need bullets and gas chambers to kill people? You mean to tell me he couldn't kill them off without bullets? What sort of evil genius will waste so much manpower, energy, money, and valuable resources to build industrial size gas chambers to gas millions when he could just simply mass starve them???

Your pathetic lack of knowledge knows no bounds. Since majority of German men were drafted and fighting in the war, Hitler needed slave labor to to make his war factories run, since it was against Aryan policy to draft women into factories. As for starvation, many Jews did die of starvation while waiting to be exterminated in Hitler's concentration camps. You should see the pictures of Jews who are skeletals as they were liberated in concentration camps. The Gas provided a quick method in killing them. The final solution was devised in January 1942, before that Hitler and top Nazi echelons thought of segregation, or mass deporation to Madagascar as a way to deal with the Jewish question. But with the advent of Gas, it was decided that was the quickest and fastest way into killing Jews.

I guess Eisenhower was a much more of a evil genius that he was able to starve 1.7-9 million Germans without even firing a single shot or building a single gas chamber.

He never did such a thing. I have heard this crap conspiracy theory as well. The 1.7 million germans were under his command who were eventually released by 1947 from captivity. And somehow people got this notion that USA starved millions of German soldiers.

Be specific as to which "gas" and which camps you are referring to. Is it Zyklon B??

Yes I am referring to the Zkylon B Gas. It was first tested in September 1941 and then presented in the Wannsee Conference that it would made on an industrial scale in which it could kill thousands of people per day.

Give me your reason as to why they tattooed numbers on their wrists.

Very simple. Its easier to track people that way that remembering their names. Same reason people in USA have a SSN number or in Canada a SIN number.

Similar to how the Soviets mass starved 6 million Ukrainians in what is now known as the Holodomor? Or similar to the Bengal famine orchestrated by the british? Jeez, what about those 60 million Russians murdered by Jewish Bolsheviks in the Soviet Union? Were they secretly working for Hitler?

You are rambling all over the place which clearly shows you know nothing about World War II. We are talking about the Holocaust. What does the Bengal Famine of 1943 has anything to do with it?

If you don't know about the "Eisenhower Death camps" then you know jack sh!t about WW2.

Eisenhower's Holocaust - His Slaughter Of 1.7 Million Germans

In 'Eisenhower's Death Camps'


Lol, oh, my hatred for jews, oh, i'm a evil NAZI oh my lol. I can't remember the last time i went to a KKK convention.

Maybe you should recommend those propaganda comic books to people who are gullible.

That article is total bullshit and conspiracy nonsense. Its not surprising that it attracted the likes of you. Read the study conducted by Dr.Overmans who meticilously reported on the stats on German death toll during and after the war.
http://ww2stats.com/Overmans.pdf

Nahh, that's fits you well.

LOL. If you say so. I will let the others be the judge on who is more knowledgable on facts and whose head is filled with conspiracy mumbo jumbo.

 

[Mercenary]

An Orthodox Historian Finally Acknowledges: There is No Evidence for Nazi Gas Chambers
Robert Faurisson

Born in 1939, Jacques Baynac is a French historian who is the author of several books.1 A scholar whose sympathies lean to the left, he harbors a definite hostility toward revisionists (whom he calls "deniers"), and particularly toward revisionist writer and publisher Pierre Guillaume and myself. For years he affirmed the existence of Nazi homicidal gas chambers.

In 1996, though, Baynac acknowledged in two lengthy articles published in a Swiss daily newspaper that, taking everything into account, one is forced to admit -- even if it is "as painful to say as it is to hear" -- that the well-known "testimonies" are not sufficient proof of wartime homicidal gas chambers, and that it is simply not possible to prove, scientifically, that the homicidal gas chambers actually existed.

Given this lack of any direct proof, he continued, it will now be necessary to seek an indirect proof. Because one cannot prove that Nazi gas chambers existed, he goes on to write, it will instead be necessary to prove that it is impossible that they did not exist! Specifically, he writes: "If scholarly history cannot, because of the lack of documentation, establish the reality of a fact, it can, by means of documentation, establish that the unreality of this fact is itself unreal." 2

Baynac made these remarkable statements in two lengthy articles published in the Swiss newspaper Le Nouveau Quotidien de Lausanne, September 2, 1996 (p. 16), and September 3, 1996 (p. 14).
The Evasion of Historians

In the first of these two articles, Baynac begins by deploring France's anti-revisionist "Fabius-Gayssot" law of July 13, 1990, which he says allows "the deniers' sect" to use the courts as podiums for their views. He notes that this law has been criticized by Claude Imbert of Le Point magazine, historian Pierre Vidal-Naquet (who has said: "I am ready to kill Faurisson, but not to pursue him in a court of law!"), Madeleine Rebérioux (former president of the "Human Rights League"), anti-revisionist attorney Charles Korman, and several parliamentary deputies of the Gaullist RPR party.

Baynac affirms that the revisionists/deniers have plenty of reason for rejoicing, especially since the Abbé Pierre affair "changed the atmosphere" in their favor. Baynac also notes that among the anti-revisionists, "disarray has given way to consternation," that historian Pierre Vidal-Naquet "is grieved," that the prominent French-Jewish intellectual Bernard-Henri Lévy "is beside himself," that Pierre-André Taguieff "is frightened," and that the front cover of an issue of the French magazine L'Événement du jeudi ("The Thursday Event") proclaimed "The Victory of the Revisionists."

Baynac denounces Jorge Semprun, an intellectual and former deportee, for having irresponsibly "murdered" a book by Florent Brayard that attacks French revisionist writer Paul Rassinier. Baynac believes that among Leftists there has come into being a "paranoia," a "witch-hunt" (in the words of Jean-François Kahn), and a "disastrous chaos." He notes that Simone Veil and Dominique Jamet share his dislike of the Fabius-Gayssot law, and that "one refuses to debate" the revisionists.

Baynac recalls the declaration by "34 reputable historians" published in the prominent French daily Le Monde on February 21, 1979 -- a stupefying declaration that responded to but did not answer my challenge, which had appeared earlier in the paper, calling for an explanation of how, technically, the magical Nazi gas chambers were supposed to have operated. In this regard, Baynac writes of the "evasion" of historians in general, and goes on to declare that "the historians have retreated."
Neither Documents, Traces, Nor Proofs

In the second of his two articles, Baynac deplores the fact that anti-revisionist historians have trusted Jean-Claude Pressac, a pharmacist and "amateur historian," who now concludes that the number of Jewish and non-Jewish dead at Auschwitz amounts "to a total of 600,000 victims." 3 Baynac derides historian François Bayrou, France's Minister of National Education, who, conscious of the difficulties in trying to prove the "Holocaust" genocide and wartime homicidal gas chambers, advocates recourse to a "less burdened" historical method. Baynac sees in this a "light historical concept."

Baynac believes that Nazi gas chambers existed, but thinks that those who have tried to prove their existence have overly employed an "ascientific" methodology, rather than a "scientific" one. In this "ascientific" method, he goes on, "testimony prevails," while in the "scientific" method documents prevail. However, he adds with regret, one is able only to ascertain "the absence of documents, traces, or other material proofs." 4

Baynac recalls the admission made in 1988 by Jewish-American historian Arno Mayer, who teaches at Princeton University: "Sources for the study of the gas chambers are at once rare and unreliable." 5 Baynac goes on to say that "we do not have available indispensable elements for a normal undertaking of the historical method," and that "one must remain silent for lack of documents." He concludes with a remarkable concession: "it is necessary to recognize that the lack of traces involves the inability to directly establish the reality of the existence of homicidal gas chambers." 6 When he writes "the lack of traces," he means, as already mentioned, "the absence of documents, traces, or other material proofs."
Proofs for Tomorrow?

Baynac's study concludes with the suggestion, already mentioned: because it is decidedly impossible to prove that the gas chambers existed, let us try in the future to prove that these gas chambers were not able not to have existed!

This is an example of admitting a present-day inadequacy while postulating an act of faith for the future. Baynac is naive. He believes that because so many historians have emphatically affirmed the reality of the "Holocaust" horrors and the homicidal gas chambers, and so many survivors have claimed to have seen them, therefore they undoubtedly existed. He does not realize that, with time, one discovers that the writing of history is full of histories that are more or less imaginary.

He continues to believe in the gas chambers, just as he seems to persist in believing in Communism. Tomorrow, one will find proof for these gas chambers. Tomorrow, Communism will be true. Tomorrow, one will get a free lunch. Tomorrow, one will finally have the proof that National Socialism is the incarnation of evil and that Communism is the incarnation of good. Let's hear it for the eternal credulity of the French intelligentsia!

Baynac joins, as it were, the "34 reputable historians" who, as already mentioned, in 1979 published one of the most monumental pieces of nonsense of French academic life: "It is not necessary to ask oneself how, technically, such a mass murder was possible. It was technically possible because it happened." Baynac thus adds his name to those of the 34 orthodox scholars who, without intending it, were obliged to agree with the revisionist historians on several important issues. This inevitably raises a question: how can judges continue to condemn revisionists for contesting a crime that, as Baynac now acknowledges, has not been proven?
Embarrassing Gas Chambers

It is quite clear that the "Nazi gas chambers" are ever more embarrassing for those who uphold the "Holocaust" thesis of Jewish extermination. As early as 1984, Pierre Vidal-Naquet warned friends who were already attempting to abandon the "gas chambers" that to do so would be "to capitulate in open country" 7 And in 1987 a periodical hostile to revisionism published a letter by two French-Jewish teachers, Ida Zajdel and Marc Ascione, suggesting that the Nazis had faked their confessions, and only mentioned gas chambers in order to plant "a delayed action 'bomb' against the Jews, an instrument of diversion and, why not, of blackmail." 8

There are many other examples worth citing, but I will content myself here with citing just three recent ones: that of Elie Wiesel (in 1994), that of a Dutch professor of Jewish-Polish origin, Michel Korzec (in 1995), and finally, that of the Jewish-American historian Daniel Jonah Goldhagen (in 1996):

In 1994, Wiesel wrote in his memoir, All Rivers Run to the Sea: "Let the gas chambers remain closed to prying eyes, and to imagination." 9 In plain English this means: "Let's not try to see, or even imagine, a Nazi gas chamber." What follows inevitably from this is that Wiesel is quite skeptical of the alleged witnesses who, supposedly, have described what happened in the gas chambers.
In 1995 Michel Korzec declared that too much emphasis has been put on the gas chambers and the number of gassing victims. With dialectic contortions worthy of a cabalist, he went on to argue that it was the Germans, and not the Jews, who are responsible for this error. In Korzec's view, many more Germans participated in the "mass murder" of Jews than has been assumed, and in many more places across Europe -- many more than the small number of Germans supposedly involved in gas chamber killings of Jews. 10
In his 1996 study, Hitler's Willing Executioners, an exceedingly anti-German work, Daniel J. Goldhagen wrote: "Gassing was really epiphenomenal to the Germans' slaughter of Jews." 11 And in a 1996 interview with a major Austrian weekly news magazine he stated: "For me the industrialized annihilation of the Jews is not the central question in explaining the Holocaust ... The gas chambers are a symbol. But it is absurd to believe that the Holocaust would not have taken place without the gas chambers." 12

So, by 1996 the gas chambers had become a symbol!
A Swiss Newspaper Sets An Example

In recent years I have described at various times, in samizdat essays and in interviews recorded by Ernst Zündel in Canada, this evolution by the "exterminationists" regarding the "Nazi gas chambers." In a text I wrote on September 22, 1993 (and which I intend to publish in my forthcoming book), I predicted that one day organized Jewry eventually would be obliged to give up the lie about Nazi gas chambers, while at the same time still insisting that "the Holocaust" is an irrefutable truth. Consistent with this, the US Holocaust Memorial Museum in Washington, has decided not to provide any physical representation of a German homicidal gas chamber (except for a door of a delousing gas chamber and an absurd and "artistic" model). 13

The two 1996 articles by Jacques Baynac in the Swiss daily paper are only a stage in this metamorphosis of official historiography. Baynac's articles confirm that, for quite some time now, historians have broken with the facade of unanimity. Step by step, historians are rejecting the simplistic conclusions of the Nuremberg Tribunal regarding gas chambers and genocide.

When French judges declare that challenging the existence of Nazi gas chambers is to challenge "crimes against humanity" (which the genocide of the Jews would have been), they are correct. However, if there is no longer any proof of a specific murder weapon, logically there is no longer any proof of a specific crime. This conclusion, rather embarrassing for the judges who dare to condemn revisionism, follows inevitably from the position taken by Baynac, a position that, once again, is not in any way peculiar to him but represents a general trend in orthodox historiography. Baynac is simply saying out loud what his colleagues have been thinking in silence.

In publishing these two articles by Baynac, Le Nouveau Quotidien of Lausanne, normally so hostile toward revisionism, has shown both discernment and respect for its readers. 14

Jacques Baynac: "There are no proofs, yet I believe."

Robert Faurisson: "There are no proofs, therefore I refuse to believe."

For the first: freedom of expression.

For the second: a sentence of one month to one year of prison, a fine of 2,000 to 300,000 francs, and additional penalties.

Notes

Among the most noteworthy of Baynac's books have been La Terreur sous Lénine ("The Terror Under Lenin," 1975), Ravachol et ses compagnons ("Ravachol and His Companions," 1976), Mai retrouvé ("May [1968] Revisited," 1978), Les Socialistes révolutionnaires russes, 1881-1917 ("The Russian Revolutionary Socialists, 1881-1917," 1979), and La Révolution gorbatchévienne ("The Gorbachev Revolution," 1988). In 1987, he published, along with historian Nadine Fresco, an anti-revisionist article in the Paris daily Le Monde entitled "Comment s'en débarrasser?" ("How Can We Get Rid of Them?" [that is, the revisionists]), June 18, 1987, p. 2.

"... si l'histoire scientifique ne peut, faute de documents, établir la réalité d'un fait, elle peut, avec des documents, établir que l'irréalité de ce fait est elle-même irréelle. En établissant que l'inexistence des chambres à gaz est impossible, on liquidera définitivement la prétention du négationnisme à se poser comme une école historique ..." Le Nouveau Quotidien (Lausanne), Sept. 3, 1996, p. 14.
La Déportation: Le Système concentrationnaire nazi ("The Deportation: The Nazi Concentration Camp System"), a work published under the direction of François Bédarida and Laurent Gervereau (BDIC, 1995), p. 196. Here Pressac estimates from 600,000 to 800,000 Auschwitz deaths,
This is quite a drop from the figure of 9,000,000 given in the widely-viewed film "Night and Fog," or 4,000,000 as established by the Nuremberg Tribunal and as inscribed until 1990 on plaques at the monument at the Auschwitz camp site (where since 1995 the new figure is 1,500,000).
On Pressac, see also: R. Faurisson, "Auschwitz: Technique and Operation of the Gas Chambers," Spring 1991 Journal, pp. 25-66 (Part I), and Summer 1991 Journal, pp. 133-175 (Part II); Arthur R. Butz, "Some Thoughts on Pressac's Opus," May-June 1993 Journal, pp. 23-37; Serge Thion, "A French Scholar Responds to a Widely-Acclaimed Anti-Revisionist Work," July-August 1994 Journal, pp. 28 ff.; "'The Jewish World' Against Pressac," Jan.-Feb. 1996 Journal, p. 41.
"... l'absence de documents, de traces ou d'autres preuves matérielles ..." Le Nouveau Quotidien, Sept. 3, 1996, p. 14.
A. Mayer, Why Did the Heavens Not Darken?: The "Final Solution" in History (New York: Pantheon, 1989), p. 362.
"... il faut reconnaître que la manque de traces entraîne l'incapacité d'établir directement la réalité de l'existence des chambres à gaz homicides." Le Nouveau Quotidien (Lausanne), Sept. 3, 1996, p. 14.
"Le Secret partagé" ("The Shared Secret"), Le Nouvel Observateur, Sept. 21, 1984, p. 80.
Article 31, Jan.-Feb. 1987, p. 22.
E. Wiesel, All Rivers Run to the Sea, Memoirs (New York: Random House/ Knopf, 1995), p. 74.
M. Korzec, "De mythe van de efficiënte massamoord" ("The Myth of Efficient Mass Murder"), Intermediair, December 15, 1995. See also: R. Faurisson, "A New Version of the Holocaust Story," March-April 1996 Journal, pp. 22-23.
D. J. Goldhagen, Hitler's Willing Executioners: Ordinary Germans and the Holocaust (New York: Knopf, 1996), p. 521, n. 81. In this same book (p. 523, n. 4) Goldhagen also writes, "The imbalance of attention devoted to the gas chambers needs to be corrected."
Profil (Vienna), September 9, 1996, p. 75: "Die industrielle Vernichtung der Juden ist für mich nicht die Kernfrage zur Erklärung des Holocaust ... Die Gaskammern sind ein Symbol. Es ist aber ein Unsinn zu glauben, daß der Holocaust ohne Gaskammern nicht stattgefunden hätte."
During a visit to the US Holocaust Memorial Museum on August 30, 1994, I met with the Museum's Research Director, Michael Berenbaum. He told me, in the presence of witnesses, that "the decision had been made not to present any physical representation of a Nazi gas chamber." See also: R. Faurisson, "The US Holocaust Memorial Museum: A Challenge," July-August 1993 Journal, pp. 14-17; "Gas Chamber Door Fraudulently Portrayed at US Holocaust Museum," September-October 1993 Journal, p. 39; and, R. Faurisson, "Auschwitz: Facts and Legend," July-August 1997 Journal, pp. 16-17.
In the Baynac article in the September 2 issue of Le Nouveau Quotidien, p. 16, there are three minor errors: in the second column, one should read "Florent Brayard" (instead of "Florent Rassinier"); in the third column, "Jean-François Kahn" (in place of "Khan"); and, in the forth column, "Il ne faut pas se demander comment techniquement ...," instead of "Il ne faut pas se demander si techniquement ...," or, "It is not necessary to ask oneself how" (instead of "ask oneself if").

About the author:

Robert Faurisson was educated at the Paris Sorbonne, and served as a professor at the University of Lyon in France from 1974 until 1990. He was a specialist of text and document analysis. His writings on the Holocaust issue have appeared in four books and numerous scholarly articles, many of which have been published in this Journal.

This essay is a translation and adaptation of a text written in September 1996.
Bibliographic information

Author:
Faurisson, Robert

Title:
An Orthodox Historian Finally Acknowledges: There is No Evidence for Nazi Gas Chambers

Source:
The Journal for Historical Review (INSTITUTE FOR HISTORICAL REVIEW --)

Date:
July/August 1998

Issue:
Volume 17 number 4

Location:
Page 24

ISSN:
0195-6752
Attribution:
"Reprinted from The Journal of Historical Review, PO Box 2739, Newport Beach, CA 92659, USA. Domestic subscriptions $40 per year; foreign subscriptions $60 per year."

Please send a copy of all reprints to the Editor.





Yeah, after receiving so many death threats to himself and his family as well as being stalked. Wow, how bravely of holohoax believers to force their views down others throats through death threats.


On David Cole's recant:


David Cole forced to recant his revisionist views


The constantly changing holohoax number. Maybe in the future it will be 6 billion gassed to death, who knows:

1948:

1980's:

And before that:

Disgraced professors and advent racist and holocaust deniers.

This is the best that you can do.

You are even more desperate than I thought.

 

[Desert Fox]

I gave you the whole timeline because your facts are so totally wrong. You claimed that Germany was fighting a two front war and thus did not have the means to carry out the holocaust.

No, i stated that all of those bodies of starved corpses (which is the logical conclusion since they were very thin, nothing more than skin and bones) were as a result of shortage of supplies and countless air raids on German supply convoys and railway networks which made it impossible to feed the German troops at the front line let alone prisoners in camps.

I just proved to you that it was only in the last year of the war did Germany fight a two front war.

And i'll state it again; did i dispute that fact?

As for soldier being the top priority, I would agree with you, but since Hitler installed himself as Supreme Commander of the Germany Forces since late 1941 that rational thinking goes out the window. Germany handicapped its soldiers by concentrating its efforts into killing Jews.

That's nonsense. Hitler could have killed the Jews through less expensive and least resource consuming methods by just rounding them up and leaving them in the open to starve to death, rather he bothered to give them sleeping quarters, latrines, prison uniform, food, and tattooed numbers on their wrists.

Look at Stalingrad, Courtland Peninsula, Battle of Bulge, all foolish military decisions that no sane commander would have made.

Battle of the bulge was more like a last dith attempt which was doomed to fail, Stalingrad had a large concentration of soviet army so it was necessary to take the city otherwise German army's rear would have been left open to attack.

Wrong again. It was only in 1943 that the first big wave of Allied bombing began on Germany. The Luftwaffe had its forces tied up in two fronts but it did have AA batteries which took a murderous toll on Allied Air Power.

No, you're wrong again. As i stated in my previous post, the allies bombed the German city of Cologne in May 30/31, 1942 with a bomber force of 1,000 which was completely unopposed and easily overwhelmed the cities small number of flak 88's. This was prior to 1943

Secondly, those AA batteries weren't effective enough to inflict massive losses on Allied bombers as is proven by the fact that majority of Allied bombers still made it back across the channel despite missing a rudder and other pieces of the wing.

And it was only in 1943 when by sheer numbers did the Allies achieve air superiorty over the Germans. The Allies concentrated their efforts on Western Europe since they didn't have range in planes to bomb German targets in Eastern Europe. The only time when the Allies struck targets in Eastern Europe was when the American bombers bombed the Romanian Oil Fields from North Africa in late 1942. It was only in February 1945 when the Allies started bombing targets in Eastern Germany as their air bases grew closer to Germany.

You yourself stated that Germany's industrial heartland was located in the Ruhr region which is in Western Germany, and i've been saying this before and i'm saying it again that the allies were striking cities and strategic targets not just in Germany but within NAZI occupied European territories which were within their range.

And what is your point? You claimed that Germany was fighting a two front war and thus could not have the means to carry out the holocaust.

No, i stated that all of those bodies of starved corpses (which is the logical conclusion since they were very thin, nothing more than skin and bones) were as a result of shortage of supplies and countless air raids on German supply convoys and railway networks which made it impossible to feed the German troops at the front line let alone prisoners in camps. And once again, i'm repeating myself, Hitler had much more cheaper methods at his disposal by which he could have easily killed millions of Jews without firing a single bullet, was he that stupid that he provided food, shelter, and clothing, not to mention proper sanitation facilities to the people whom he was going to just gas and kill in the end?

Perhaps he should have learned from Stalin and the Bolshevik Jews about their method of mass executions and starvation through which 60 million Russians were put to their deaths.

I just proved to you that Germany was making more weapons than ever before. If they were handicapped by fuel shortages, then that has nothing to do with German industrial output or german tenacity in which they carried out the holocaust while fighting a two front war.

No, because the problem is if you can't deploy those weapons, fuel them, have a well trained crew to pilot them, or transport them to the front then how in the hell will you gas 6 million Jews plus millions of Russians, Poles, Gypsies, etc???? Does gas not require transporting? Doe its not require heavy machinery to run "gas chambers", or did they just appear out of thin air?

Maybe because Hitler was stupid enough to cloth, feed, pamper, and shelter the people whom he was eventually going to kill anyway?

When did I say the allied air campaign involved just targetting industrial centers? Read my response again. The British targetted German cities in night time operations while the Americans struck the industrial and strategic centers in daylight raids.

No, but you did state that there was no major allied strike on German targets (both civilian and military) prior to 1943, however that was not the case when the allied carried out a 1,000 bomber air raid on Cologne in May 30/31, 1942.

The 6th SS Panzer Army after being defeated in the Battle of the Bulge was ordered East. Hitler's commanders wanted the 6th SS Panzer Army to hold back the Soviet onslaught in central Poland and Germany but Hitler ordered it South towards Hungary. That happened in March 1945. The bombing of Dresden meant to slow down troop re-deployments occured in February 1945. The only time that Allies began the bomb German strategic targets in the East, which is beyond the scope of the Allied campaign was in early 1945 when it was clear that the Soviet winter offensive would be the decisive blow which will defeat Germany and thus began the bombing of targets beyond their scope of operations. Get your timeline right.

Is that not what i said? Perhaps you're lacking in comprehension skills.

"The 6th SS panzer army was deployed to Hungary to guard oil fields, only after the battle of the bulge. Secondly, you don't make any sense, you mean to tell me the whole time the allies were engaging the Germans they didn't touch a single bridge, railroad, shipyard, until 1945 yet you stated otherwise before. You're just contradicting yourself."

Source: http://www.defence.pk/forums/world-...ooter-worked-jewish-camp-7.html#ixzz21P7qoSCc

Your pathetic lack of knowledge knows no bounds.

You mean yours? I agree, your knowledge is indeed very pathetic, soaked with reeking with propaganda, mind telling me where you got it from?

Since majority of German men were drafted and fighting in the war, Hitler needed slave labor to to make his war factories run, since it was against Aryan policy to draft women into factories. As for starvation, many Jews did die of starvation while waiting to be exterminated in Hitler's concentration camps. You should see the pictures of Jews who are skeletals as they were liberated in concentration camps. The Gas provided a quick method in killing them. The final solution was devised in January 1942, before that Hitler and top Nazi echelons thought of segregation, or mass deporation to Madagascar as a way to deal with the Jewish question. But with the advent of Gas, it was decided that was the quickest and fastest way into killing Jews.

You're contradicting yourself again, my my, what is it with you and your self contradictions?

First your saying he wanted them for slave labor, then you said he wanted to deport them, then you said since he couldn't deport them he wanted to gas them to death. But then why give them uniforms? Why cloth them, give them shelter, feed them if you're going to kill them in the end? And if he was going to kill them then why use them for slave labor? Now do you see your pathetic and desperate attempt to prove a lie?

He never did such a thing. I have heard this crap conspiracy theory as well. The 1.7 million germans were under his command who were eventually released by 1947 from captivity. And somehow people got this notion that USA starved millions of German soldiers.

The fact that you just dismissed it as a "crap conspiracy theory" just goes to show your level of ignorance, ie; "if i don't agree with it then its crap conspiracy theories".

Anyhow, its well documented, the mistreatment of millions of Germans after the war is a fact that General George S. Patton himself acknowledged this in his personal memoirs and letters to his wife and comrades.

Yes I am referring to the Zkylon B Gas. It was first tested in September 1941 and then presented in the Wannsee Conference that it would made on an industrial scale in which it could kill thousands of people per day.

There was a typhus outbreak and the gas was used for delousing. "Industrial scale"??? Really??? Of all gasses they used the one that kills typhus and that too at a time when there was a typhus outbreak. Wow, what a coincidence, i'm really beginning to believe you now.

Very simple. Its easier to track people that way that remembering their names. Same reason people in USA have a SSN number or in Canada a SIN number.

Does that mean i'll be going to a gas chamber now in a concentration camp in the middle of nowhere???

You are rambling all over the place which clearly shows you know nothing about World War II.

And you do??? LOL, if you know even a ounce about WW2 then the earth must be flat.

We are talking about the Holocaust.

You just realized that?

What does the Bengal Famine of 1943 has anything to do with it?

And what does Leningrad have to do with gas chambers?

That article is total bullshit and conspiracy nonsense.

What did you say about yourself?

Its not surprising that it attracted the likes of you. Read the study conducted by Dr.Overmans who meticilously reported on the stats on German death toll during and after the war.
http://ww2stats.com/Overmans.pdf

LOL, "Dr overmans", what a load of cow fecal matter!!! Its like me asking the CEO of one company about the product of its rival company. Of course he's going to state otherwise, why would they want the world to know how many evil German civilians they butchered after the war?? It wouldn't make the Germans look that evil now would it genius???

If "dr overmans" says that the recently discovered number of "gassed" Jews is 6 billion (since the number has constantly been changing throughout the years) and that the real gas being used was Mustard Gas, i'm sure you'd be the first to jump out of your seat and cheer him on.

LOL. If you say so. I will let the others be the judge on who is more knowledgable on facts and whose head is filled with conspiracy mumbo jumbo.

So you're "knowledgeable" on "facts"??? Tell me, what facts are you "knowledgeable" on?? If your "dr overmans" says tomorrow that the Earth orbits the Sun i'm sure you'd proudly believe that too.

 

[KingMamba]

Which official experts would those be? Dr. Ahmenijacket and Dr. Ahmed? If you ever decide to visit Poland, ask someone to check you in one of those made up gas chambers, and lock the door. Kindly do report your findings.

The poles are not exactly fans of the Jews stealing all the sympathy from WW2. There were more poles killed in WW2 then Jews in total.

 

[Desert Fox]

Disgraced professors and advent racist and holocaust deniers.

"Disgraced" and "racist"? Said who? You?
And who exactly are you? Yep, a nobody.

This is the best that you can do.

And what's the best that you can do? I saw your "best" and i'm afraid you're below the level of even pity.

You are even more desperate than I thought.

And how did you come to that conclusion? After all it takes one to know one. I'm sure you probably get desperate in life very frequently.

Pathetic desperate losers like you aren't even worth my time.

 

[KingMamba]

Personally I accept that Jews were killed however I will NEVER accept Israel.

 

[Desert Fox]

Anyhow, in this video of Documented Evidence this Jewish French Professor lived under NAZI occupation of France, in the video he is being interviewed by "racist" KKK "neo-NAZI" member about his experience under evil NAZI Germany's occupation of France :

A Jew Defends Adolf Hitler. (Part 1 - 3) - YouTube

A Jew Defends Adolf Hitler. (Part 1 - 3) - YouTube

A Jew Defends Adolf Hitler. (Part 3 - 3) - YouTube

 

[Desert Fox]

Millions killed by Zionist Bolshevik Jews both in the Soviet Union as well as outside of the Soviet Union:

-Lev Kamenev(Rozenfeld)
Top Bolshevik Leader

-Grigory Zinoviev(Apfelbaum)
Top Bolshevik Leader

-Alexander Pavrus( aka Israel Gelfand)
Top Marxist "revolutionary"

-Jacob Sverdlov-
First President of the Soviet Union- Butcher of the Romanov Family

-Yankel Yurovsky-
Commander of the Soviet Secret Police-Led the Death Squad who murdered the Czar and his family.

-Solomon Lozovsky-
Soviet Commissar

-Maxim Latvinov (Wallach)
Soviet Commissar

-Lazar Kaganovich
Stalin's right hand man-"Butcher of Ukraine"-
Single greatest mass murderer of all time caused 20 million deaths.

-Rosa Kaganovich-
Stalin's Mistress,sister Lazar

-Olga Kameneva (Brostein)-Jew
Sister of Leon Trotzky,Wife of Kamenev
Officer Cheka Secret Police

-Genrikh Yagoda-Jew
Chief of Soviet Secret Police (NKVD)
Mass-Murder extraordinaire


-Naftaly Frenkel
Founder of the GULAG death camp system

-Lavrenti Beria-
Secret Police Chief (NKVD)
Mastermind of "Katyn forest Massacre"

Martin "Gray"
-NKVD Officer(Butcher of the Christians)
Later claimed to be "Holocaust survivor" and wrote a fake memoir

-N.K. Pauker-
Chief of Operations (NKVD)
Mass-Murder of Christians

-Babel,Shpiegelglas,Slutsky
Chief NKVD Thugs

-Karal Radek ( Sobelsohn)
Top Bolshevik "Revolutionary"

-Nikolai Bukharin
Lenin's Cheif Terrorist

-Jacob Sciff
Jewish banker of Khun,Loeb & Co.
Bolshevik Financier

-Max Warburg
Jewish banker
Bolshevik Financier


The Katyn Forest Massacre: 25,000 Polish Officers and Intellectuals murdered in cold blood by Bolshevik Commisars

Nazi photos of the 1943 exhumations in Katyn Forest

Truth Is Out: Katyn massacre carried out on Stalin's direct orders - YouTube

 

[Mercenary]

No, i stated that all of those bodies of starved corpses (which is the logical conclusion since they were very thin, nothing more than skin and bones) were as a result of shortage of supplies and countless air raids on German supply convoys and railway networks which made it impossible to feed the German troops at the front line let alone prisoners in camps.

No. You are wrong yet again. The German Railway Networks was still functioning even in March 1945. The German Rail Network was the best and most dense in Europe. Thats why they were able to move Jews to death camps even in very late stages of the War.

And i'll state it again; did i dispute that fact?

You made the assertion that Germany was fighting a two front war and thus was unable to carry out the holocaust. I just showed you that Germany only started fighting a two front war in June 1944 and even with punishing allied air bombardment it was still producing more weapons than it ever had and it still had a functioning rail network even in the very late stages of the war. Which just shows that German had the capacity to carry out the war and the holocaust at the same time. Something which your entire thesis and a pack of lies that the holocaust never happened is based on.

That's nonsense. Hitler could have killed the Jews through less expensive and least resource consuming methods by just rounding them up and leaving them in the open to starve to death, rather he bothered to give them sleeping quarters, latrines, prison uniform, food, and tattoed numbers on their wrists.

Your argument is nonsense. Hitler initially wanted to deport the Jews to Madagascar and thus rounded them up in Ghettos but when his scientists perfected the Gas in which to kill them, he settled upon a final solution and orderd Reinhard Heydrich and Eichmann to work out the details in which they did. How to transport them, which Jews to use for slave labor, which Jews to be used for scientific experiments and which Jews to be killed. Since Germans are meticilous record keepers they stamped everyone with numbers. Your nonsensical argument about Starving never entered German calculus because due to the perfection of Gas which can achieve mass murder at an industrial rate.

Battle of the bulge was more like a last effort attempt which was doomed to fail, Stalingrad had a large concentration of soviet army so it was a necessary to take the city otherwise German rear would have been left open.

You are claiming why didn't Hitler do this or why didn't Hitler do that. He was not a rational man. I am just pointing out his battlefield fallacies as example of his rational state. Not allowing Von Paulus to withdraw the 6th Army from Stalingrad, wasitng resources in Battle of Bulge when the Germans should have gone on the Static Defensive on the Western front and an elastic defense on the eastern fromt.

No, you're wrong again. As i stated in my previous post, the allies bombed the German city of Cologne in May 30/31, 1942 with a bomber force of 1,000 which was completely unopposed and easily overwhelmed the cities small number of flak 88's.

Secondly, those AA batteries weren't effective enough to inflict massive losses on Allied bombers as is proven by the fact that Allied bombers still made it back across the channel despite missing a rudder and other pieces of the wing.

One Sortie over Cologne does not dictate the balance of Air Power has shifted. Its only when Daylight bombing attacks began over Germany and in proper over Hamburg and over Ruhr that the balance of air power shifted. And Those AA batteries took a heavy toll on the Bombers and thus Allied air Command had to shift tactics and come at Germany from different routes which entailed longer air travel time and thus less time for manouver which made the bombers vulnerable to air attacks. This was rectified by 1944 when the P-51 Mustangs started accompanying the bombers.

You yourself stated that Germany's industrial heartland was located in the Ruhr region which is in Western Germany, and i've been saying this before and i'm saying it again that the allies were striking cities and strategic targets not just in Germany but within NAZI occupied European territories which were within their range.

Yes the Allies were striking at Germany and Western Europe but not EASTERN Europe. That is where the Concentration Camps were. Its only when the Germans were pushed back that the Allies began a concentrated bombing attack on German held Eastern Europe especially Dresden to slow down the troop movement to the Eastern Front.

No, i stated that all of those bodies of starved corpses (which is the logical conclusion since they were very thin, nothing more than skin and bones) were as a result of shortage of supplies and countless air raids on German supply convoys and railway networks which made it impossible to feed the German troops at the front line let alone prisoners in camps. And once again, i'm repeating myself, Hitler had much more cheaper methods at his disposal by which he could have easily killed millions of Jews without firing a single bullet, was he that stupid that he provided food, shelter, and clothing, not to mention proper sanitation facilities to the people whom he was going to just gas and kill in the end?

Your entire argument hinges on the fact that the German were short on supplies and thus they gave the soldiers more food than the prisoners and thus the prisoners died and that explains the dead bodies in those Concentration camps. That is a total pack of lies. The German supply chain was still working in the later stages of the war. They still mounted an offenisve attack against the Soviets in March 1945 and held the Soviets at bay Seelow Heights in April 1945 and still moved the German 12th Army from the American sector to Soviet. So your argument has no merit. As for cheaper methods of disposal. Germans and Nazis wanted an industrial method in disposal of the Jewish Question and thus to them starvation while it may seem a cheaper method never crossed their mind if they could do on an industrial scale. And thus since the facilities could only process 15,000 people per day, they needed to be clothed to work in factories and fed since they would be otherwise useless.

Perhaps he should have learned from Stalin and the Bolshevik Jews about their method of mass executions and starvation through which 60 million Russians were put to their deaths.

Seriously, is this the crux of your argument?

No, because the problem is if you can't deploy those weapons, fuel them, have a well trained crew to pilot them, or transport them to the front then how in the hell will you gas 6 million Jews plus millions of Russians, Poles, Gypsies, etc????

Yes they could have. But since Germans are notorious about perfection, they perfected a method to bring about death on an industrial scale.

Maybe because Hitler was stupid enough to cloth, feed, pamper, and shelter the people whom he was eventually going to kill anyway?

He clothed in prison garb and only gave them enough food to make them work in slave labor camps, and not sure what you are talking about pampering. He used them and when they were used up, he killed them. Those who were of no use to him were killed anyways.

No, but you did state that there was no major allied strike on German targets (both civilian and military) prior to 1943, however that was not the case when the allied carried out a 1,000 bomber air raid on Cologne in May 30/31, 1942.

Get over Colonge already. It was a night time raid and it did inconsequential damage. And 400 Germans were killed vs 35,000 that were killed in Hamburg in 1943. Sorry but I find that to be more dominant show of Air Power than Cologne.

Is that not what i said? Perhaps you're lacking in comprehension skills.

"The 6th SS panzer army was deployed to Hungary to guard oil fields, only after the battle of the bulge. Secondly, you don't make any sense, you mean to tell me the whole time the allies were engaging the Germans they didn't touch a single bridge, railroad, shipyard, until 1945 yet you stated otherwise before. You're just contradicting yourself."

Source: http://www.defence.pk/forums/world-...ooter-worked-jewish-camp-7.html#ixzz21P7qoSCc

No you did not.
The 6th SS Panzer Army was send to Hungry in March 1945. Your timeline is wrong. It was in February 1945 that the Allies started bombing targets in Eastern Europe including Dresden.

You mean yours? I agree, your knowledge is indeed very pathetic, soaked with reeking with propaganda, mind telling me where you got it from?

I got my knowledge reading books and facts and figures. Which you obviously cannot comprehend and need whacko sites to fulfill your conspiracy diatribe.

You're contradicting yourself again, my my, what is it with you and your self contradictions?

First your saying he wanted them for slave labor, then you said he wanted to deport them, then you said since he couldn't deport them he wanted to gas them to death. But then why give them uniforms? Why cloth them, give them shelter, feed them? And if he was going to kill them then why use them for slave labor?

I think you cannot comprehend complex things. Hitler used the Jews for slave labor, put the others to death and used the rest to maintain civil order within the Jews themselves. Are you too dumb to understand this simple fact? You are debating like a school child, why did hitler cloth and feed them if he was going to kill them? Maybe he utilized their slave labor to fund his war machine, and clothed and feed them in order to maintain order and organize them. And those who were used up were killed. And those who he had no use for, were killed.

The fact that you just dismissed it as a "crap conspiracy theory" just goes to show your level of ignorance, ie; "if i don't agree with it then its crap conspiracy theories".

Anyhow, its well documented, the mistreatment of millions of Germans after the war is a fact that General George S. Patton himself acknowledged in this personal memoirs and letters to his wife and comrades.

It is crap conspiracy nonsense because there is not a single credible historian who backs up your ridicilous claims. The fact that you weren't around during World War II and thus have to rely on written histroy and since you have chosen the bottom dwellers and disgraced historians to somehow give credence to your nonsencial claims about the Holocaust just shows how desperate and pathetic your argument really is. As for Patton's letters, can you please post them and please highlight the passage where it said that 1.7 to 9 Million German soldiers were starved to death. I would love to read that.

There was a typhus outbreak and the gas was used for delousing. "Industrial scale"??? Really??? Of all gasses they used the one that kills typhus and that too at a time when there was a typhus outbreak. Wow, what a coincidence, i'm really beginning to believe you now.

That is how that gas was initially founded but later on weaponized to a certain degree that it could kill humans and the Germans tested on Soviet prisoners in September 1941 and then mass prodcuced and industralized it by January 1942. But why am I even bothering tell you this. Its obvious facts don't compute in your fantasy filled mind.

Does that mean i'll be going to a gas chamber now in a concentration camp in the middle of nowhere???

No only a fool would think that. It means its easier for the Germans to track the Jews that were in their captivity. Just like cattle.

And you do??? LOL, if you know even a ounce about WW2 then the earth must be flat.

Anyone who has read your replies knows full well you know absolutely nothing about the War.

You just realized that?

I had to remind you of that because since your lack of knowledge is so grave you were desperately throwing everything including the Kitchen Sink hoping something would stick. All you have proven you are an ignorant person who knows nothing.

And what does Leningrad have to do with gas chambers

The 900 Day Siege in which Soviet citizens were starved to death as you wanted to claim killed 1 million Russians. And thus if we apply the same calculus to the Jews, it would take even longer for them to die. And thus Gas Chambers to kill the Jews and industrial mass murder.

What did you say about yourself?

I am just quoting your article that you posted written by unknown authors and cooks who are too ashamed for their names to published beside such nonsense and bull ****.

LOL, "Dr overmans", what a load of cow fecal matter!!! Its like me asking the CEO of one company about the product of its rival company. Of course he's going to state otherwise, why would they want the world to know how many evil German civilians they butchered after the war?? It wouldn't make the Germans look that evil now would it genius???

LOL. Overman's study was commissioned by the German Military and was accepted as fact after his years of meticilous research. And I am suppose to believe you over him?

Oh you are just too much. Never met a holocaust denier as silly as you

If "dr overmans" says that the recently discovered number of "gassed" Jews in 6 billion (since the number has constantly been changing throughout the years) and that the real gas being used was Mustard Gas, i'm sure you'd be the first to jump out of your seat and cheer him on. So you're "knowledgeable" on "facts"??? Tell me, what facts are you "knowledgeable" on?? If you "dr overmans" says tomorrow that the Earth orbits the Sun i'm sure you'd proudly believe that too.

No. If some Jew Hater comes and says that the Eart was flat and the Jews made it round, you would belive that. I believe in facts and figures and I love debating and destroying arguments by ******** like you who have no grasp of knowledge and are consntantly repeating the same nonsense or going on tangent when you fail to make your case.

 

[Mercenary]

"Disgraced" and "racist"? Said who? You?
And who exactly are you? Yep, a nobody.


And what's the best that you can do? I saw your "best" and i'm afraid you're below the level of even pity.


And how did you come to that conclusion? After all it takes one to know one. I'm sure you probably get desperate in life very frequently.

Pathetic desperate losers like you aren't even worth my time.

You quoted a bunch disgraced, racist, intellectually dishonest professors to make your argument.

I guess thats the kind of people who beleive such garbage.

What a troll