'Allah' for Muslims only: Malaysia's top court

[gambit]

No, YOU keep humiliating yourself by displaying ignorance of a) English and b) what I wrote.

I wrote that, if a significant number of mathematics PhD started opening medical clinics as doctors, then the govt. would have to step in. Over and over again, I have emphasized that if the fraud and deception is widespread enough, then it merits action by the government.

If enough men were putting Rohypnol in women's drinks, then the govt. steps in.

Fraud and deception occurs every day at every level. The discussion is about the situation where it reaches widespread proportions.

You brought in truth in advertisement laws to justify what Malaysia is doing to protect the spiritually weak. So answer the question: If a man used deception to seduce a woman into sex, should the government step in to protect the woman ?

 

[Developereo]

You brought in truth in advertisement laws to justify what Malaysia is doing to protect the spiritually weak. So answer the question: If a man used deception to seduce a woman into sex, should the government step in to protect the woman ?

I already wrote that the context is widespread deception. You may have missed it, or not, but that has been the context all along.

If my local Toyota dealer tells me that the car will give me 200 miles/gallon, he is committing fraud, but the govt. doesn't need to get involved. I may laugh it off, he may laugh it off, or he may get fired, worst case.

However, if Toyota launches a national advertising campaign saying the same, or lots of Toyota salespeople around the country start saying it, and it turns out there was an internal memo from high up in Toyota endorsing the practice, then the govt. would have to step in and regulate advertising.

 

[gambit]

I already wrote that the context is widespread deception. You may have missed it, or not, but that has been the context all along.

If my local Toyota dealer tells me that the car will give me 200 miles/gallon, he is committing fraud, but the govt. doesn't need to get involved. I may laugh it off, he may laugh it off, or he may get fired, worst case.

However, if Toyota launches a national advertising campaign saying the same, or lots of Toyota salespeople around the country start saying it, and it turns out there was an internal memo from high up in Toyota endorsing the practice, then the govt. would have to step in and regulate advertising.

What...??? You think men using deceptions and even outright lies to seduce women into sex are rare and isolated ?

It was hilarious that you used drugs in an earlier argument. Drugs to reduce physical responses or diminish mental capacity by affecting brain chemistry do not qualify under truth in advertising laws. Advertisement is about persuasion, as in making intellectual and moral effects on your intellect, not on the physical structures of the brain.

Since we know that there are men all over the world making deceptive claims to women to entice them into sex, do you approve of the government taking steps to protect women under truth in advertisement laws ?

 

[Developereo]

What...??? You think men using deceptions and even outright lies to seduce women into sex are rare and isolated ?

It was hilarious that you used drugs in an earlier argument. Drugs to reduce physical responses or diminish mental capacity by affecting brain chemistry do not qualify under truth in advertising laws. Advertisement is about persuasion, as in making intellectual and moral effects on your intellect, not on the physical structures of the brain.

Since we know that there are men all over the world making deceptive claims to women to entice them into sex, do you approve of the government taking steps to protect women under truth in advertisement laws ?

The reference to drugs was in the context of defrauding the victim. It's to be expected that this would go over your head.

As to men's conduct in the bedroom, the law always takes into account how an "average person" would behave in a situation. Lying to get sex is the norm and a "normal person" would be expecting such behavior. Hence, lying by either party is part of the "normal" social behavior.

Lying to get laid is part of normal social behavior. Drugging your victim is not.

 

[gambit]

If my local Toyota dealer tells me that the car will give me 200 miles/gallon, he is committing fraud, but the govt. doesn't need to get involved. I may laugh it off, he may laugh it off, or he may get fired, worst case.

Used cars salesmen do this all the time all over the world and without any centralized office coordinating the efforts. If you can laugh it off, so can someone else, but then are always those who are less capable in critical thinking skills. How far do you want to go in using government power to protect them ?

 

[Developereo]

Used cars salesmen do this all the time all over the world and without any centralized office coordinating the efforts. If you can laugh it off, so can someone else, but then are always those who are less capable in critical thinking skills. How far do you want to go in using government power to protect them ?

Like I wrote, if there was a coordinated campaign from the top, rather than individual salesmen stretching the facts, then it might require govt. action.

 

[gambit]

The reference to drugs was in the context of defrauding the victim. It's to be expected that this would go over your head.

There is no defrauding here. This is not a hospital where the patient can see what the doctor put in his IV. Once you affect brain chemistry, there is no need to defraud the victim.

As to men's conduct in the bedroom, the law always takes into account how an "average person" would behave in a situation. Lying to get sex is the norm and a "normal person" would be expecting such behavior. Hence, lying by either party is part of the "normal" social behavior.

Lying to get laid is part of normal social behavior. Drugging your victim is not.

Fine...Then you should not be supporting this Malaysian law. No drugs are involved but deception, which is normal social behavior.

Like I wrote, if there was a coordinated campaign from the top, rather than individual salesmen stretching the facts, then it might require govt. action.

Might ?

The best you can muster up is 'might' ? Individual Christians using a variety of verbal gymnastics to raise the recruitment quota to make themselves look good to a deity that may or may not exist and you got your Underoos in a bunch and demand governmental actions, but used car salesmen get only a 'might' ?

 

[Developereo]

There is no defrauding here. This is not a hospital where the patient can see what the doctor put in his IV. Once you affect brain chemistry, there is no need to defraud the victim.

Wrong. The purpose of the drug is to impair normal brain functioning in order to facilitate defrauding the victim.

Fine...Then you should not be supporting this Malaysian law. No drugs are involved but deception, which is normal social behavior.

Wrong again.

I specifically wrote "in a situation". Lying and deception are the norm in the sexual arena.

That is not the case in most other areas of life, including when promoting one's religion. People expect honesty and forthright behavior.

 

[gambit]

Wrong. The purpose of the drug is to impair normal brain functioning in order to facilitate defrauding the victim.

Yeah...The brain's chemistry is affected. Did the Christian evangelists used that technique ?

Wrong again.

I specifically wrote "in a situation". Lying and deception are the norm in the sexual arena.

That is not the case in most other areas of life, including when promoting one's religion. People expect honesty and forthright behavior.

People expects honesty in salesmen as well, no matter what they are selling, be it microwave ovens, cars, or religions. But people also have a responsibility to be critical before they fork over their money for a microwave oven or a car, just as much as they have a responsibility to exercise critical thinking before they fork over their moral and intellectual allegiance to a religion.

In a way, may be we should feel sorry for you Muslims. You seems soooooooo helpless against the onslaught of this cruel world. You need rules for everything you do, from which foot to first enter a house to which hand to wipe yourself after defecation. So why not legal protection from other religions ?

 

[Developereo]

Might ?

The best you can muster up is 'might' ? Individual Christians using a variety of verbal gymnastics to raise the recruitment quota to make themselves look good to a deity that may or may not exist and you got your Underoos in a bunch and demand governmental actions, but used car salesmen get only a 'might' ?

I wrote 'might' in response to a hypothetical situation. Actual action would depend on the specifics of a case.

Yeah...The brain's chemistry is affected. Did the Christian evangelists used that technique ?

The issue here is defrauding: drugs are one way to defraud people; misuse of words is another.

The two are not mutually exclusive.

People expects honesty in salesmen as well, no matter what they are selling, be it microwave ovens, cars, or religions. But people also have a responsibility to be critical before they fork over their money for a microwave oven or a car, just as much as they have a responsibility to exercise critical thinking before they fork over their moral and intellectual allegiance to a religion.

The reality is that ordinary people are very trusting. You may not accept it, or think it stupid of them, but that's how ordinary people behave. More importantly, the law decides how "ordinary people" would behave in any given situation and "ordinary people" expect honesty in matters of religion. That's why dodgy evangelists make out so well.

In a way, may be we should feel sorry for you Muslims. You seems soooooooo helpless against the onslaught of this cruel world. You need rules for everything you do, from which foot to first enter a house to which hand to wipe yourself after defecation. So why not legal protection from other religions ?

Memo to YOU:

When you start rambling incoherently against Muslims, it's an acknowledgement that you have lost the debate and are just foaming at the mouth.

 

[A.P. Richelieu]

I guess yes, the government as in many other Muslim countries is putting more emphasis on education, and Islam's obligations protect the weak inherently. Islam is a social religion on top of being an individual religion, people can help by sending or offering money and expertise, no need for missionaries to tell you the truth, since their only aim is to convert people to Christianity which has learned and derived its civilized social patterns from Islam.

Maybe You should reread the question...

 

[The SC]

Maybe You should reread the question...

Yes if you are talking about ignorance in Islam, Islam is the native religion of Malaysia, Why should anyone come to protect the weak and the ignorants, when their own country and other Muslims are helping them, those are remnants of the colonial era, and it is being dealt with by education. So, no need for missionaries.

 

[LeveragedBuyout]

What pathetic desperation from the Israeli apologist.

Show me where I claimed that you should not refer to Catholics as 'Catholic.

SHOW ME.

Substantiate your desperate assertion.



Your example with African-Americans shows your inability to grasp the concept. If one African-American tells you it is OK for you to call him the n-word, it does NOT mean that you can start using it for all African-Americans.

Do educate yourself on fundamental set theory.

All Catholics are Christian, but not all Christians are Catholic.

Given your posting history about Muslims and Palestinians, it is not surprising that you are defending bigotry. Not at all.

You are skilled at introducing straw man arguments, but that's the limit of your ability. I gave you the benefit of the doubt out of respect for your Think Tank title before, but now I won't waste more time on you. Good luck to you in life.

 

[A.P. Richelieu]

Yes if you are talking about ignorance in Islam, Islam is the native religion of Malaysia, Why should anyone come to protect the weak and the ignorants, when their own country and other Muslims are helping them, those are remnants of the colonial era, and it is being dealt with by education. So, no need for missionaries.

The majority is of course Muslim, but this may be because they are weak, and uneducated.
Do you claim that Malaysian Muslims get full education about other religions, so they
can make an educated choice?

 

[The SC]

The majority is of course Muslim, but this may be because they are weak, and uneducated.
Do you claim that Malaysian Muslims get full education about other religions, so they
can make an educated choice?

Most Muslims my friend know about the other religions, it is all written in the Koran, that obviously you have no Idea about.
Like I told you before, the only things that missionaries like you can do is to offer a Muslim some incentives, and as you have seen in the French articles I have posted, these converts will stay Christians only for a moment, until trey get their official status or whatever their objective is for a better life and will revert to Islam, that they have never left anyway.