All the wars have been started by Pakistan!!!

[Spitfighter]

Key messages

We Pakistan will not allow India to dominate south asia

We pakistan have equalised india,s previous conventional superiority with nuke weapons.

Our Nuke Arsenal is INDIA SPECIFIC.

, what makes you think the choice is yours?

Pakistan risks isolation, how long do you think Pakistan can resist tapping into India's economy?

Pakistan is in the midst of a brutal civil war, the economy has crashed, there is immense international pressure, do you REALLY think Pakistan will be in any position to dictate terms to India? It has no chance of forcing a solution in Kashmir militarily, covert warfare isn't an option. Pakistan will just have to live with the situation for now as there are simply no alternatives. Pakistan will have to make some compromises, it is in no position to carry on the confrontation.

PS: If Pakistan has 'equalized' India's conventional superiority with its nukes, what have our nukes done? What makes you so sure that nukes can prevent a limited conventional war?

anyhow, lets drop it this discussion is going way off topic.

 

[RiazHaq]

I think Asghar Khan is an honorable patriot, but naive in my opinion. He has never forgiven Ayub Khan for not taking him into confidence in 1965, a war in which India crossed the international border to try and capture Lahore. This sense of playing second fiddle to Army chiefs hurts the egos of PAF chiefs.

As to Pakistan starting and losing every war, there is plenty to contradict this notion.

While outwardly claiming to dismiss Pakistan as a defeated and failed state, the Indians continue to show by their actions that they are paranoid about their much smaller neighbor to the West by maintaining most of their troops close to the border with Pakistan.

For example, twenty four of the thirty three Indian infantry divisions are near Pakistan's borders. All three of India's armored divisions are poised against Pakistan. All three of India's mechanized divisions are positioned on Pakistani borders.

If Indians have such an impeccable record of successes against Pakistan in past wars as they claim, why is it that, in practice, they are so fearful of their little neighbor? Why are they planning to increase defense spending by 50% to spend $40 billion, 33% more than the entire 2009-10 Pakistani budget of $30 billion, on defense in 2009-10? Could it be that, in their heart of hearts, they really do not believe their own propaganda and their claims of victory over Pakistan are really hollow?

Please read more at Haq's Musings: Demolishing Indian War Myths about Pakistan

 

[RiazHaq]

Here are excerpts from "1965 War, the Inside Story" by R.D. Pradhan, that illustrates how the 1965 war unfolded:

In Chapter 8 titled "Of Cowardice and Panic", the author describes the cowardice of Maj. Gen. Niranjan Prasad, the Indian general commanding officer in Lahore sector. When the general was fired upon by Pakistani forces, he "ran away". "On learning that, Lt. Gen. Harbakash Singh and the corps commander drove in a Jonga to the battlefront. Army commander found that the enemy (PAF) air attack had created a havoc on G.T. Road. (Indian) Vehicles were burning and several vehicles of 15 Division abandoned on the road, the drivers having run away, leaving some of the engines still running. Maj. Gen. Niranjan Prasad was hiding in a recently irrigated sugar cane field. As described by Harabakash Singh: "He (Prasad) came out to receive us, with his boots covered with wet mud. He had no head cover, nor was he wearing any badges of his ranl. He had stubble on his face, not having shaved." Seeing him in such a stage, Harbakhash Singh asked him: "Whether he was the General Officer commanding a division or a coolie? Why had he removed badges of rank and not shaved? Niranjan Prasad had no answer."

Pradhan's book contains many different entries by Indian Defense Minister Y.B. Chavan. A Sept 9, 1965 entry reads: Had a very hard day on all fronts. Very fierce counter-attacks mounted and we are required to withdraw in Kasur area. COAS was somewhat uncertain of himself. I suggested to him that he should go in forward areas so that he will be in touch of realities. He said he would go next day.

 

[SMC]

, what makes you think the choice is yours?

Pakistan risks isolation, how long do you think Pakistan can resist tapping into India's economy?

Pakistan is in the midst of a brutal civil war, the economy has crashed, there is immense international pressure, do you REALLY think Pakistan will be in any position to dictate terms to India? It has no chance of forcing a solution in Kashmir militarily, covert warfare isn't an option. Pakistan will just have to live with the situation for now as there are simply no alternatives. Pakistan will have to make some compromises, it is in no position to carry on the confrontation.

PS: If Pakistan has 'equalized' India's conventional superiority with its nukes, what have our nukes done? What makes you so sure that nukes can prevent a limited conventional war?

anyhow, lets drop it this discussion is going way off topic.

Please, it's no civil war. It's more like 5% of the country against the rest.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

I know an ex-Navy Chief who believes that the world is run by a 'Serpent' Organization with multiple Jewish Heads!! Enough said!

Can we get that quote from him on youtube, and then get Nomad, the Indians and some Americans to believe it since an 'ex-military leader' made them.

Asghar Khan's claims are not backed up by the facts:

1. 1947

The tribal invasion was in response to the Maharajah's brutal atrocities against the local Kashmiris who had risen up in rebellion against a dictator, and thousands were driven out as refugees into Pakistan. If Pakistan entered J&K, the Indians militarily occupied the Princely States of Junagdah and Hyderabad, despite the rulers of those states favoring accession to Pakistan - so Pakistan was not alone in contemplating this sort of action then, and we got about a third of Kashmir State because of that - otherwise we would be dealing with Indian duplicity over holding a plebiscite (as required under the rules of partition in contested accessions), and India controlling all of J&K.

2. 1965

An attempt to spark a rebellion against Indian occupation in disputed territory, because of India violating her commitment to the UNSC resolutions and unilaterally annexing J&K, resulted in India initiating full fledged war against Pakistan.

3. 1971

Whatever Pakistan's domestic policies, it is fact that India supported terrorists and rebels in EP to destabilize it, and within a month of Pakistan cracking down on the insurgency, was looking to start war.

This was blatant Indian aggression and war started by India - AM Asghar Khan would have to be senile to not realize this.

The last example alone debunks the thread title.

End of story.

 

[StingRoy]

In the part three (around 4m marker).. these are Asghar Khan's words:
"Most ppl believe that India is a threat.they believe this. But it is wrong, we must argue this out and I have been writing on this and speaking on this for 20 years, but
nobody listens. People are obsessed with this, very popular .. India se Jihaad karo and all that. And I think this is absolutely ridiculous, there is no
threat in this, they have other things to do. They can't swallow Pakistan... even if they invaded Pakistan, took it over, imagine what mess they will be in.
Already we are in a mess and you can imagine what will happen in India.. they never thought.. in 60 years they have not agressed against us., lets be realistic. We are the ones that have always started fighting."

Atleast some guy is speaking the bitter truth...

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

in 60 years they have not agressed against us., lets be realistic. We are the ones that have always started fighting.[/B]

Atleast some guy is speaking the bitter truth...

Actually he has been shown to be completely wrong on that count.

I think some Indians are still having a hard time accepting their own 'bitter truth' of the reality of Indian aggression against Pakistan.

 

[Lion Of Pakistan]

Kashmir - The tribal invasion was initiated at your end. The rest is history.

Bangladesh - Fueled by Pakistan's misguided policies, not ours. If Pakistan can pull a '65, India can pull a '71. All's fair in love and war.

Nuclear race - started by China (Russia, US, France, UK....)

Indus water treaty: proof? acknowledged by the intl' community?

Balochistan: proof?

Pakistan is not the victim here.

Actually, there is PROOF of Balochistan insurgency support by India
Source: Anti-Pakistan TTP Terrorists Equipped With U.S., Indian, German, Weapons | Pakistan Daily

 

[Lion Of Pakistan]

In the part three (around 4m marker).. these are Asghar Khan's words:
"Most ppl believe that India is a threat.they believe this. But it is wrong, we must argue this out and I have been writing on this and speaking on this for 20 years, but
nobody listens. People are obsessed with this, very popular .. India se Jihaad karo and all that. And I think this is absolutely ridiculous, there is no
threat in this, they have other things to do. They can't swallow Pakistan... even if they invaded Pakistan, took it over, imagine what mess they will be in.
Already we are in a mess and you can imagine what will happen in India.. they never thought.. in 60 years they have not agressed against us., lets be realistic. We are the ones that have always started fighting."

Atleast some guy is speaking the bitter truth...

I am PRETTY SURE when Asghar Khan was talking he said: "ppl"
I love fake quotes, as fake proof.
If your going to make fake quotes, please make it somewhat believable.

 

[MastanKhan]

Hi,

It is stated that Asghar Khan called hisd counter part in india and said---if you don't do any air strikes on us, I will hold my air force down as well---if this is true---then Asghar Khan is one of the most disgusting human being as a citizen of pakistan.

Only a traotor would do such a thing---instaed of getting ready to do his job that he was trained for.

 

[XYON]

Kashmir - The tribal invasion was initiated at your end. The rest is history.

Bangladesh - Fueled by Pakistan's misguided policies, not ours. If Pakistan can pull a '65, India can pull a '71. All's fair in love and war.

Nuclear race - started by China (Russia, US, France, UK....)

Indus water treaty: proof? acknowledged by the intl' community?

Balochistan: proof?

Pakistan is not the victim here.

Since you do not seem to be an informed or even well-read human being, so allow me to help you expand your horizons.

KASHMIR - The tribal invasion was a necessity owing to a HINDU ruler trying to accede a MUSLIM majority area to a HINDU India. So essentially, INDIA started it.

BANGLADESH - Mukti Bhani was a HINDU sponsored organization whose sole aim (like the TTP today) was to destabilize East Pakistan. No surprise here too!

NUCLEAR - When was the last time your HINDU Junta exploded a nuke a stone throw away from the Chinese Border? Any plans for doing that anytime soon?

INDUS WATER - HINDU India is building Dam after Dam on the Indus Tributaries. The Indus Water Treat is a world recognized agreement whihc now being breached by INDIA. Pakistan proceeding with the case to the ICJ. No surprise here too!

BALUCHISTAN - Proof aplenty! Brahamdagh Bugti has himself accepted that he is receiving terror aid in Afghanistan from the Indian consulates in shape of money and explosives. Many TTP hoodlums have confessed (just like the Mumbai guy you have caught) to have been trained in Indian run camps in Afghanistan.

Seriously, stop being an idiot and use your brains before you open your trap the next time!

 

[XYON]

, what makes you think the choice is yours?

Pakistan risks isolation, how long do you think Pakistan can resist tapping into India's economy?

Pakistan is in the midst of a brutal civil war, the economy has crashed, there is immense international pressure, do you REALLY think Pakistan will be in any position to dictate terms to India? It has no chance of forcing a solution in Kashmir militarily, covert warfare isn't an option. Pakistan will just have to live with the situation for now as there are simply no alternatives. Pakistan will have to make some compromises, it is in no position to carry on the confrontation.

PS: If Pakistan has 'equalized' India's conventional superiority with its nukes, what have our nukes done? What makes you so sure that nukes can prevent a limited conventional war?

anyhow, lets drop it this discussion is going way off topic.

I see your stupidity of analysis exceeding above too!

Again to bring the likes of you on track. Our effective nuke program is to shut the likes of you up. We have proven that many times now in the past. Your Indian backyard has so much cr@p piled up that your shining India has now become more of a whining India. Oh we will for sure loose in a nuke war but we will take down every inch of your Mother India down with us. And do look out your apartment window; see all those millions of slum dwellers? So your body count; destruction of infrastructure etc etc will be a lot more. Your India will sure be shining alright after the nukes come falling in......in Uranium Gleam!

And most certainly if we can bleed the USSR to extinction in Afghanistan, do you really think you have the ability to defend against such asymmetric warfare? Hence the timing your your demise essentially remains with us. We use it or we do not use it; it will ALWAYS remain our call!

Rest of the content of your post is almost too stupid to even consider responding.

 

[Storm Force]

The indo pak relationship is very complicated because unlike the rest of the world SOUTH ASIANS are very stubborn and backward in their thinking.

When you have atitudes that sugest we will not allow India to dominate south asia OR we will not rest for 1000 years until Kashmir is free OR we can nuke you if you dare try to attack us !!!!!!!!!!!!!

What chance is their for the sub continent.

I do agree with one earlier post though India can easily live with the STATUS QUO..

Afterall they will live with LOC their economy and military might and political clout will continue to grow regardless of current ino pak stand off.

In contrast Pakistan has huge internal proplems with jehadis culture massive pressure/interference from USA and this is surely blunting their ability to grow economically.

The strange thing this mostly Pakistans own doing they are harming their own nation without much indian involvement at all.

But i,m also certain India will add fuel to the fire if it rages further.

 

[StingRoy]

I am PRETTY SURE when Asghar Khan was talking he said: "ppl"
I love fake quotes, as fake proof.
If your going to make fake quotes, please make it somewhat believable.

Are you that stupid?

 

[SMC]

In relation to the original topic, Pakistan never attacked an international border. India did. Twice.