all future F-16 wings will be built in India

[Syed_Adeel]

african countries will buy .

its better for them to buy LIFT aircrafts than f16.

 

[Peaceful Civilian]

Can we get it in low price when need arise.?
Just buying wings will not threat indian security.

 

[FuturePAF]

Also more Rafale.

I'm guessing in a few months you guys will be surprised by what's coming next.

Not surprised, the Indian back and forth gives a good heads up to find ways to counter. Especially with an ally like China that does a lot of R&D and their high turnaround time making effective products to counter disruptive threats. Also Chinese hackers may have compromised the Rafale, just like the Scorpene via Australia last year. The Rafales maybe used by India against China so its in China's interests to counter them as well.

 

[Ultima Thule]

Can we get it in low price when need arise.?
Just buying wings will not threat indian security.

Not needed @Peaceful Civilian

 

[randomradio]

Not surprised, the Indian back and forth gives a good heads up to find ways to counter. Especially with an ally like China that does a lot of R&D and their high turnaround time making effective products to counter disruptive threats.

If I were PAF, I wouldn't put my hopes on the Chinese. Pakistan has to start doing its own stuff now, like Azm.

Also Chinese hackers may have compromised the Rafale, just like the Scorpene via Australia last year. The Rafales maybe used by India against China so its in China's interests to counter them as well.

All the Chinese hacking stories are just Western propaganda, made to put them in bad light. Hacking has never really harmed anyone when it comes to military secrets.

And the Scorpene leak did not compromise the program.

 

[FuturePAF]

If I were PAF, I wouldn't put my hopes on the Chinese. Pakistan has to start doing its own stuff now, like Azm.



All the Chinese hacking stories are just Western propaganda, made to put them in bad light. Hacking has never really harmed anyone when it comes to military secrets.

And the Scorpene leak did not compromise the program.

Pakistan is not sourcing all its equipment to China, but working with Chinese industry to see if they can provide or produce a product it wants. If the fit is right, it will then buy that product. China also wants to blunt any Indian threat, and will hear Pakistan out, as that same Rafale could be acquired by Taiwan.

"Hacking has never really harmed anyone when it comes to military secrets. And the Scorpene leak did not compromise the program."

The Chinese use the vacuum method to gather information. That report releases enough details that will give Chinese hackers a road map of what systems to look for when searching through the computers at DCNS or their subcontractors. Its a matter of piecing together as much as possible.

A previous example of this method is the walker spy ring in the 60s-80s:
a 2001 thesis presented at the U.S. Army Command and General Staff College using information obtained from Soviet archives and from Oleg Kalugin, indicated that the Pueblo incident may have taken place because the Soviets wanted to study equipment described in documents supplied to them by Walker.[10]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Anthony_Walker#Spy_ring

 

[LKJ86]

All the Chinese hacking stories are just Western propaganda, made to put them in bad light. Hacking has never really harmed anyone when it comes to military secrets.

I can't agree any more.

If I were PAF, I wouldn't put my hopes on the Chinese. Pakistan has to start doing its own stuff now, like Azm.

PAF never puts all its eggs in China's basket.

 

[randomradio]

Pakistan is not sourcing all its equipment to China, but working with Chinese industry to see if they can provide or produce a product it wants. If the fit is right, it will then buy that product. China also wants to blunt any Indian threat, and will hear Pakistan out, as that same Rafale could be acquired by Taiwan.

You will have to rely on your own research if you wish to defeat advanced threats.

And the very reason that the Chinese also have to fight such advanced threats will force them to keep their counters secret, even from Pakistan.

The Chinese use the vacuum method to gather information. That report releases enough details that will give Chinese hackers a road map of what systems to look for when searching through the computers at DCNS or their subcontractors. Its a matter of piecing together as much as possible.

A previous example of this method is the walker spy ring in the 60s-80s:
a 2001 thesis presented at the U.S. Army Command and General Staff College using information obtained from Soviet archives and from Oleg Kalugin, indicated that the Pueblo incident may have taken place because the Soviets wanted to study equipment described in documents supplied to them by Walker.[10]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Anthony_Walker#Spy_ring

The simple reason is there's nothing classified that you can get by hacking.

The stuff that the Chinese stole has little to no relevance to warfighting. It does not benefit such a purpose. It was the same with the Scorpene leak. It's a nice read, but totally useless when you wish to kill the Scorpene. The same with the F-35.

The biggest threat continues to be defection.

PAF never puts all its eggs in China's basket.

I'm referring to putting all eggs in the Pakistani basket.

 

[LKJ86]

You will have to rely on your own research if you wish to defeat advanced threats.

And the very reason that the Chinese also have to fight such advanced threats will force them to keep their counters secret, even from Pakistan.



The simple reason is there's nothing classified that you can get by hacking.

The stuff that the Chinese stole has little to no relevance to warfighting. It does not benefit such a purpose. It was the same with the Scorpene leak. It's a nice read, but totally useless when you wish to kill the Scorpene. The same with the F-35.

The biggest threat continues to be defection.



I'm referring to putting all eggs in the Pakistani basket.

Does IAF put all eggs in its basket?

 

[zectech]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1036936614914678784

How much I dislike the Indians, I disdain the Amerikans. Mexico would have been better, still happy it is not in some "bomb everyone and everywhere"town, USofA.

Send the factory and assembly lines to India too. Hopefully the quality is as good as their tanks and the wings break apart mid-air.

 

[Signalian]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1036936614914678784

This event could have made a significant jump for Indian aerospace and aviation industries back in 1980's and 1990's, even up to 2010's. There are thousands of F-16's already flying now.

 

[FuturePAF]

You will have to rely on your own research if you wish to defeat advanced threats.

And the very reason that the Chinese also have to fight such advanced threats will force them to keep their counters secret, even from Pakistan.



The simple reason is there's nothing classified that you can get by hacking.

The stuff that the Chinese stole has little to no relevance to warfighting. It does not benefit such a purpose. It was the same with the Scorpene leak. It's a nice read, but totally useless when you wish to kill the Scorpene. The same with the F-35.

The biggest threat continues to be defection.



I'm referring to putting all eggs in the Pakistani basket.

The Chinese will keep the top-of-line weapons for themselves. I don't blame them. But even their secondary weapons are potent to counter many threats being fielded around them. Also, Pakistan can be a testing ground for some of their systems and sub-systems.

The Chinese get defectors and infiltrators in physical and electronically. Once key technologies are pointed out, they keep going to hunt down those systems hosting the information, and try to extract it. They also have sub-contractors and even contractors willing to sell technology that has been developed in joint programs between countries. Israel is the source of a lot of sub-systems for the Chinese military. A lot of their technology was co-developed with American companies.

Pakistan's acquisition of technology from Europe and Turkey are ways for Pakistan to diversify its options in finding the best fit. Pakistani evaluations of These platforms help all of these companies better develop their systems in order to maximize their chances of winning a contract. The Pakistan Navy evaluated the U-214 and explored other contractors. When they laid out the best features of each option, those companies that wanted to win the contract went back to improve their offerings and that (and financing) is why Pakistan is acquiring Chinese submarines. You may say these subs are inferior, but at $500 million a piece, and the rapid advancement of Chinese technology, they are catching up to make the subs worth it at that price point, because a satisfied Pakistani customer will show other nations, that buying Chinese is worth it. The JF-17 to Myanmar and Nigeria are prime examples.

 

[randomradio]

Does IAF put all eggs in its basket?

That's our goal.

One of our IAF spokespersons recently said that from now on all the radars we buy will be indigenous. So as our tech matures, we will stop imports.

The Chinese will keep the top-of-line weapons for themselves. I don't blame them. But even their secondary weapons are potent to counter many threats being fielded around them. Also, Pakistan can be a testing ground for some of their systems and sub-systems.

The Chinese get defectors and infiltrators in physical and electronically. Once key technologies are pointed out, they keep going to hunt down those systems hosting the information, and try to extract it. They also have sub-contractors and even contractors willing to sell technology that has been developed in joint programs between countries. Israel is the source of a lot of sub-systems for the Chinese military. A lot of their technology was co-developed with American companies.

Pakistan's acquisition of technology from Europe and Turkey are ways for Pakistan to diversify its options in finding the best fit. Pakistani evaluations of These platforms help all of these companies better develop their systems in order to maximize their chances of winning a contract. The Pakistan Navy evaluated the U-214 and explored other contractors. When they laid out the best features of each option, those companies that wanted to win the contract went back to improve their offerings and that (and financing) is why Pakistan is acquiring Chinese submarines. You may say these subs are inferior, but at $500 million a piece, and the rapid advancement of Chinese technology, they are catching up to make the subs worth it at that price point, because a satisfied Pakistani customer will show other nations, that buying Chinese is worth it. The JF-17 to Myanmar and Nigeria are prime examples.

Okay, look, it's like this. If it turns out that India can successfully defend itself from high-end Chinese tech, then what chance does Pakistan have with mid-end Chinese tech?

The unreliability of even Western imported systems is the reason why we have fully indigenised all our technologies in the electronic spectrum. So radars, satellites, EW, sonars, comm, cyber, computing etc, all have been fully indigenised.

I'm not saying you should build your own sub, but there's other technologies inside the sub that you can design and build by yourself. That's where the difference lies.

The same with the JF-17. It needs to have a Pakistani radar, EW suite and C&C to be competitive because the Chinese won't give you their best stuff. Of course, you won't have a choice if even their mid-end stuff is superior to what you make. But you have to make a start somewhere.

 

[FuturePAF]

That's our goal.

One of our IAF spokespersons recently said that from now on all the radars we buy will be indigenous. So as our tech matures, we will stop imports.



Okay, look, it's like this. If it turns out that India can successfully defend itself from high-end Chinese tech, then what chance does Pakistan have with mid-end Chinese tech?

The unreliability of even Western imported systems is the reason why we have fully indigenised all our technologies in the electronic spectrum. So radars, satellites, EW, sonars, comm, cyber, computing etc, all have been fully indigenised.

I'm not saying you should build your own sub, but there's other technologies inside the sub that you can design and build by yourself. That's where the difference lies.

The same with the JF-17. It needs to have a Pakistani radar, EW suite and C&C to be competitive because the Chinese won't give you their best stuff. Of course, you won't have a choice if even their mid-end stuff is superior to what you make. But you have to make a start somewhere.

I Agree, To stay competitive, and have new tricks up our sleeves we should also devout resources to indigenous Electronics, Comms, Cyber, Electronic Warfare, Etc. R&D. To be honest, we are devoting our resources to national development of civilian industries, and leaving advances in electronics to our allies to sell to us. The Chinese had a period where they didn't focus on the military modernization; 1980-1990/1995, and built up their civilian industries. when the economy was up and running they had money coming in to fund their programs. I think we are doing the same.

 

[Tshering22]

Indonesia Air Force is looking forward to acquire 48 Viper (block 70) by the year 2020

You really want F-16s right now? We ourselves are in two minds because of its obsolete design and the invisible control threads that it comes with. You are in a ripe position to start afresh. Better choose a Rafale or Gripen to complement the Sukhois.

Also more Rafale.

I'm guessing in a few months you guys will be surprised by what's coming next.

I just hope we don't get unpleasantly surprised. IAF and MoD are making a mockery of India's air asset acquisition. They are behaving like clueless kids in the midst of a boy scout camp on their first day.

Right now is the time to either vector all the would-be extra Rafale funds to two different segments: AMCA and Tejas Mk2.

What we need to do is capacity development. MoD is already in talks with Russia for 40 additional MKIs:

http://idrw.org/mod-and-iaf-talk-and-might-say-yes-to-40-more-sukhoi-su-30-mki-fighters/

Since we don't see a foreseeable air war happening any time soon (forget it in the Himalayas, given the realistic restrictions due to terrain and cost), it would be prudent to vector the funds towards Mk2s and AMCA, in which case, the latter can be expedited on war footing.

ADA might as well start collaborating with 'outsourcing' its scientists to private sector companies who can operate with these scientists much faster.

Also, a law can be brought in place whereby IAF is banned from buying 5th gen jets from foreign entities till AMCA is released and inducted.

Unless we do these things, AMCA has a bleak future with IAF doing the role play of a 13 year old moody teenager.