AK Antony sets December deadline for final delivery of LCA Tejas

[Dash]

Chala Murari Hero banne

 

[halfilhal]

Chala Murari Hero banne

Perhaps defence ministry should allow some couples to have their suhagraat in and around LCA. The plane may get delivered.

Ye totka bhi aajmalo

 

[Manindra]

Agar deadline miss hui toh ADA 11guna Lagaan bharega

 

[Jayanta]

Very vague comment...what does it mean by delivering by 2014. Is he speaking about FOC by December 2014 or something else. If he means FOC it will be like day dreaming. Or is he speaking about delivering the LCA-MK2 prototype, in that case it is likely.

BTW, I don't think Anotny will be the Defense Minister in December 2014.

 

[SRP]

Very vague comment...what does it mean by delivering by 2014. Is he speaking about FOC by December 2014 or something else. If he means FOC it will be like day dreaming. Or is he speaking about delivering the LCA-MK2 prototype, in that case it is likely.

BTW, I don't think Anotny will be the Defense Minister in December 2014.

 

[tranquilium]

LCA is supposed to be a war machine to fight wars. Not some gaining experience. What would happen to it when it fights? Shall we see?

To be fair, LCA WAS a very important learning tool. Technological development is an iterative process. You have to learn to build the simple stuff before you can move onto the more complex ones.

For example, while China stared building planes in the 50s, our independent development didn't really take off until 1963 when we began to reverse engineer MIG-21 and build our own J7. Using experience from J7, we were able to build the J8, J10 and J20 family line later. (The other line is Su-27-->J11, which also greatly influenced Chinese designs. Also, J10 actually takes after J9, which is a parallel project to J8. Both J8 and J9 can trace their roots to MiG-21. J21/31's spec is currently unclear, but it is possible it is descended from the Su-27, J11 line)

Personally, I think Indians had the right idea in the late 60s to design a domestic replacement for MiG-21. MiG-21 is a second-third generation fighter, which is not very complex and pretty cheap, a perfect place to get your own fight military industry rolling. However, as it is commonly said, the devil is in the execution.

 

[indoPunjabi]

Tbh tejas is a dead horse. The sooner we realize it the better it'll be for airforce. Tejas development is a flop show since the beginning. By the time tejas gets ready for production other countries would be flying 5th gen fighters and india would be cheering for its indigenous piece of junk. :thumbdown:

 

[AUSTERLITZ]

LCA is supposed to be a war machine to fight wars. Not some gaining experience. What would happen to it when it fights? Shall we see?


LCA's G tolerance is only 6Gs. When compared Mig-21's(which it is supposed to replace) is 8.5Gs.

Its empty weight is a staggering 6540kgs. This betrays the very name of this fighter, "Light Combat Aircraft". Also this is a fighter which is said to have composites extensively. Just leaves one wondering what's the point of composites if it got to weigh this heavy in the end. The Mig-21 weighs 5460kgs.

It has a Maximum angle of attack of only 22, compared to the Mig-21's Max AoA of 28 Degrees(recoverable).

Its radar is still under perpetual development. The Israelis were supposed to give their radar, but new news reports suggests they have pulled the plug. So LCA currently has no working radar.

Tejas' new IN20 engine has a thrust of 19100lbf or 8660kgf. But the Mig-21's Tumansky engine can throw out a jaw dropping 21829lbf during interception, and 15654lbf during dogfighting, but it is an old Turbojet model. Hence the MTBO(Mean Time Between Overhaul), SFC(Specific Fuel Consumption) and other parameters favor the LCA's engine. So India has atleast one feather in its cap. Or does it? When all the parameters are below average and this one alone stands out, it's pretty obvious the engine is imported. The IN20 engine which the LCA owes its life to came straight out of the General-Electric's factory in the US.

It has a thrust to weight ratio lesser thna the MiG-21 as well.

Its max speed is Mach 1.6. Mig-21's Mach 2.2.

Its price is a staggering 1.9 billion Rupees or $41-42 million at the current 2011 exchange rate(fly away cost, not the cost with development taken into account). When compared Mig-21's is < $2 million.

Aeronautical Development Agency(ADA) has promised these poor specs will be improved to 8Gs, 24 Degrees, Mach 1.8, with an indigenous engine in 3-4 years. But it is highly unlikely they will be able to achieve that given their track record. When it took ADA almost 3 decades to get to these below-average specs, its only logical to assume they need a miracle to improve their specs in such a short amount of time.

The Indian Airforce Chief PV.Naik came out with the truth that Tejas isn't a 4th Generation plane but rather only a Third Generation fighter. Perhaps he should have compared the specs first before classifying it as a MiG-21 on steroids("MiG-21++"). But then again the Foreign engine and a forthcoming foreign Radar, is and will be state of the art. Mr.Naik must have kept these 2 components in mind when he said that.

And not just the IAF chief, a good friend of mine suggested after witnessing the highly uninspiring characteristics of LCA first hand in Bangalore, in the Aero India held back in 2003, that the LCA program should be scrapped and India should go for Mirage-2000 ASAP. He even predicted the perpetual development schedule of the project if India doesn't abandon this fighter. Looking back, its frightening how accurate his words were, made way back in 2003. With such extremely poor specs my heart goes out to the brave souls who'll be flying this junk. It really lives up to its critic's name - Least Capable Aircraft!

Livefist: IAF Grudgingly Accepts Tejas IOC, Wants 83 Mk-IIs

Tejas's G limit is 8.5G just higher than jf-17.Current version that was being tested could only do 6G due to incomplete integration with airframe.
Its actual AOA is also 28,in current form its 22.These are the deficiencies why IAF hasn't cleared ir for service and this drama going on till they are finally corrected.
Compared to mig-21 it has a far superior radar,jamming ability,EW suite,avionics.
Mig-21 is interceptor,it isn't agile compared to tejas,turn rate or wing loading.
As for thrust weight ratio,jf-17 thunder is no better it has pathetic TW ratio.
Its not a 4rth gen plane either no matter how much PAF fanboys dress it up as such.

 

[faithfulguy]

To be fair, LCA WAS a very important learning tool. Technological development is an iterative process. You have to learn to build the simple stuff before you can move onto the more complex ones.

For example, while China stared building planes in the 50s, our independent development didn't really take off until 1963 when we began to reverse engineer MIG-21 and build our own J7. Using experience from J7, we were able to build the J8, J10 and J20 family line later. (The other line is Su-27-->J11, which also greatly influenced Chinese designs. Also, J10 actually takes after J9, which is a parallel project to J8. Both J8 and J9 can trace their roots to MiG-21. J21/31's spec is currently unclear, but it is possible it is descended from the Su-27, J11 line)

Personally, I think Indians had the right idea in the late 60s to design a domestic replacement for MiG-21. MiG-21 is a second-third generation fighter, which is not very complex and pretty cheap, a perfect place to get your own fight military industry rolling. However, as it is commonly said, the devil is in the execution.

India had the right idea of creating a Mirage 2000 look alike plane to replace Mig 21. the problem is that its taking way too long. As a result, this plane is a learning process for India more than an actual plane use for battle. So its value is as a learning process for the nation of India and its engineers. For real war, India is correctly relying on Sukois and eventually Rafale. Maybe eventually, India can one day build its own front line fighter.

Tbh tejas is a dead horse. The sooner we realize it the better it'll be for airforce. Tejas development is a flop show since the beginning. By the time tejas gets ready for production other countries would be flying 5th gen fighters and india would be cheering for its indigenous piece of junk. :thumbdown:

If you look at Tejas as a learning process. it would be a success. But if you look at it to replace Sukois, than not so much.

 

[kurup]

If you look at Tejas as a learning process. it would be a success. But if you look at it to replace Sukois, than not so much.

How can somebody replace a heavy fighter with a light fighter ??

 

[faithfulguy]

How can somebody replace a heavy fighter with a light fighter ??

well, that is not what I mean. What I mean is that India will rely on its heavy fighters for actual combat. Tejas will be mainly for backup. But its value is for Indians to learn about building a modern plane.

 

[kbd-raaf]

well, that is not what I mean. What I mean is that India will rely on its heavy fighters for actual combat. Tejas will be mainly for backup. But its value is for Indians to learn about building a modern plane.

The Tejas will be used in the point defense role, not as 'backup'.

Get your terminology right.

 

[kurup]

well, that is not what I mean. What I mean is that India will rely on its heavy fighters for actual combat. Tejas will be mainly for backup. But its value is for Indians to learn about building a modern plane.

A light aircraft is always supposed to be a point defense fighter . Nothing surprising in that .

 

[rockstarIN]

Tbh tejas is a dead horse. The sooner we realize it the better it'll be for airforce. Tejas development is a flop show since the beginning. By the time tejas gets ready for production other countries would be flying 5th gen fighters and india would be cheering for its indigenous piece of junk. :thumbdown:

From IOC-2 to FOC, there is 12,000 certifications needed. It is a good learning process and when we move to produce next fighter in future, the foundation is already there.

 

[Windjammer]

Final delivery. ?????......when did the initial deliveries started.