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Aircraft carrier Liaoning vs Vikramaditya

nahhh``:no:``dynamics is more than that, you'll need to consider not only the CG's projection in the direction of gravity, you'll still have to consider the response from the tractors' suspension system (i.e. the energy build up in the springs and their dynamic response), the shear wind, the resonance frequency of the tractor...one word: dynamics.

Moreover, it doesn't take it to tip the tractor upside down before rendering the machine unmaneuverable.

Let us assume that all these factors negatively effect the tractors (even though they are re designed for carrier ops).
you cannot argue that it takes at least a 15 degree roll for it to tip. But then its not possible under any circumstances to launch fighters during such conditions, am i right? so the ones with the low CG becomes equally useless during that time. moreover, i dont think wind makes a big difference on a 1 tonne machine

We figure that tractor is good enough for the two nuclear states...problem?

that maleesh is a moron who cannot comprehend that there are several ways of doing things depending on the requirements and the cost to benefit ratios. let him remain ignorant.
 
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Let us assume that all these factors negatively effect the tractors (even though they are re designed for carrier ops).
you cannot argue that it takes at least a 15 degree roll for it to tip. But then its not possible under any circumstances to launch fighters during such conditions, am i right? so the ones with the low CG becomes equally useless during that time. moreover, i dont think wind makes a big difference on a 1 tonne machine
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still crying over spilled milk? using those indian tractors on the a/c carrier sucks - big time! And that is so much for indian navy's aircraft carrier's operating experience!
 
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Why this stupid comparison.... when China clearly said its for training and kids to learn and grow up.... and Vikramaditya is ment to kick A$$
 
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Goodness ! 2-3 pages on tractor troll.
As an independent person , and as an INDIAN (patriotic at that), I would prefer a low-tow m/c on carrier. It is another story that we Indians have been doing well with Jugaadi solutions but our new carrier isn't going to be one with Hurrying-Harrying-Harriers. Am sure there are low-tow tractors that CAN be designed by HMT.

I will stop here. And yes, Anti-Indian forumers, don't thank me for stating the obvious.
Fellow Indians, don't hate me for stating the obvious too :)
 
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still crying over spilled milk? using those indian tractors on the a/c carrier sucks - big time! And that is so much for indian navy's aircraft carrier's operating experience!

dont take this the wrong way buddy, but let the adult sort out this mess ok?

Goodness ! 2-3 pages on tractor troll.
As an independent person , and as an INDIAN (patriotic at that), I would prefer a low-tow m/c on carrier. It is another story that we Indians have been doing well with Jugaadi solutions but our new carrier isn't going to be one with Hurrying-Harrying-Harriers. Am sure there are low-tow tractors that CAN be designed by HMT.

I will stop here. And yes, Anti-Indian forumers, don't thank me for stating the obvious.
Fellow Indians, don't hate me for stating the obvious too :)

honestly, i hope IN sticks with tractors for the new carriers. it seems like a cheap and effective solution not to mention ingenious. The chinese may be copying the USN way of doing things. but we have our own style :lol:
 
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dont take this the wrong way buddy, but let the adult sort out this mess ok?



honestly, i hope IN sticks with tractors for the new carriers. it seems like a cheap and effective solution not to mention ingenious. The chinese may be copying the USN way of doing things. but we have our own style :lol:

god bless Vikramaditya then
 
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Let us assume that all these factors negatively effect the tractors (even though they are re designed for carrier ops).
you cannot argue that it takes at least a 15 degree roll for it to tip. But then its not possible under any circumstances to launch fighters during such conditions, am i right? so the ones with the low CG becomes equally useless during that time. moreover, i dont think wind makes a big difference on a 1 tonne machine



that maleesh is a moron who cannot comprehend that there are several ways of doing things depending on the requirements and the cost to benefit ratios. let him remain ignorant.

Good analysis, but there are a few points that you have missed in the estimation of tractor operation in rough sea condition, the first is resonance, random sea consists of waves with a range of different frequencies, each component of wave frequency will have an impact on the motion of any floating body one it, in this case, the heave, sway, surge, pitch, yaw and roll motion forms a very complicated 6-DOF motion pattern of the carrier, if any of the motion frequency gets close to the intrinsic frequency of the tractor, the tractor would experience much larger angular motion magnitude than the carrier itself (considering the suspension response, this will even deteriorate), untill it falls. Remember, before the tractor is tipped sideways, it is already unusable, or very inefficient. Aircraft is generally more stable than tractors due to its larger ground support triangular. Think about that it is not the aircraft that slows you down, but your tractor, this is it.

One more thing is: deck wind is a good matter, don't underestimate it, even tho it alone cannot tip the tractor, but in dynamic situation anything happens.
 
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dont take this the wrong way buddy, but let the adult sort out this mess ok?
honestly, i hope IN sticks with tractors for the new carriers. it seems like a cheap and effective solution not to mention ingenious. The chinese may be copying the USN way of doing things. but we have our own style :lol:

I am not arguing with you nor am I trying to get any brownie points - but it is not just the Chinese. Am sure the French / Brits / Brazilians / Spaniards aren't using tractors on decks.

I was going to write more on this but perhaps I will PM you and take the discussion away from trollers. :)

Good analysis, but there are a few points that you have missed in the estimation of tractor operation in rough sea condition, the first is resonance, random sea consists of waves with a range of different frequencies, each component of wave frequency will have an impact on the motion of any floating body one it, in this case, the heave, sway, surge, pitch, yaw and roll motion forms a very complicated 6-DOF motion pattern of the carrier, if any of the motion frequency gets close to the intrinsic frequency of the tractor, the tractor would experience much larger angular motion magnitude than the carrier itself (considering the suspension response, this will even deteriorate), untill it falls. Remember, before the tractor is tipped sideways, it is already unusable, or very inefficient. Aircraft is generally more stable than tractors due to its larger ground support triangular. Think about that it is not the aircraft that slows you down, but your tractor, this is it.

One more thing is: deck wind is a good matter, don't underestimate it, even tho it alone cannot tip the tractor, but in dynamic situation anything happens.


May I add one more point - a high seat tractor with an operator's head towering all else - just imagine fixed wing a/cs operating on the Viki in high sortie turnover with landings/T.Os The danger of an operator's head coming in the way of wings/ordnance et al..
 
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Goodness ! 2-3 pages on tractor troll.
As an independent person , and as an INDIAN (patriotic at that), I would prefer a low-tow m/c on carrier. It is another story that we Indians have been doing well with Jugaadi solutions but our new carrier isn't going to be one with Hurrying-Harrying-Harriers. Am sure there are low-tow tractors that CAN be designed by HMT.

I will stop here. And yes, Anti-Indian forumers, don't thank me for stating the obvious.
Fellow Indians, don't hate me for stating the obvious too :)

I appreciate your objectiveness, and your patriotism is a treasure for your nation. Rational thinking+patriotism is exactly what both of us need.
 
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Farming tractor for carrier deck ops? Show that you are the real ignorant armchair general. Twisting around the words will not devalue my point.

LOLL. Apart from aviation, you don't know anything about farming!!
The tractor by itself does not farm anything; it merely provides the motive power for the farming implements (plough etc) attached to the tractor which do the farming .

I was right; the CCP has not yet written it into the syllabus for its school-children. :lol:
 
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Thanks my dear srilankan friend, we are using tractors on our old AC -- have srilanka got the technology to manufacture a Tractor by themself
 
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@Maleesh , sonny , before you make a fool out of your self, let me just enlighten you a bit, only the most incurable retard will look at the tractor on an AC, anyone with slightest amount of knowledge on AC will look at the stuffs like fighter platforms, Radars, SAM's, whether the deck is of ski jump or flat deck, propulsion, size, its defenses against aerial threats etc etc. Now, if you really want to talk about an tractor here,as one of the retarded Chinese mentioned that tractor was dangerous, let me put it this way to you, those tractors are being used since decades and to this day there has been no single accident attributed to the use of tractor, if there was any danger , than the navy would have replaced them with other equipment long back, probably more than a decade back, however, the very fact that the tractors are still being used clearly indicates that they are safe to use, comfortable,efficient and the navy is satisfied with them. And another talk of it being large,in some sense it is true, but fools here have to understand that hangars will enough space to house the tractors, if there was no space,as is said earlier , those tractors would have never been used, no one will try to make space for tractors by keeping out the planes, so any further talk of the tractor being dangerous and less space is just BULLSH!T form the retards here.

coming to your second point on the Chinese navy personnel being trained on their other AC, well kid, stop talking out of your a$$ here, the most crucial thing that needs to be mastered is the technologies and techniques involved in launching and landing fighter aircraft on the deck of the AC, ever wondered why the news of the first chinese jet taking off from their AC became an international news, so much so that the Chinese even opened thread here on PDF and posted pics of the jet taking off from the deck, it took even the US navy to master the technology and techniques around a decade, in other words, ability to land and launch the fighter aircraft form the deck of AC during night and day, and even in stormy weather while the AC will be moving simultaneously is most important aspect. in simple words, the other AC's of china which are in dysfunctional state were never as a training platform, they were used to study the AC to build their own, since the Chinese don't have any experience in building AC,if you had done proper home work, you would have noticed that the Chinese are using this new AC of their as a training platform, other dysfunctional AC were not used as a training platform.

coming to other point,as i mentioned earlier, only the most incurable retard will look at the tractor and judge the destructive ability of the AC, fools like you have to understand here that an AC will not go alone into the water, it will be supported by subs and destroyers, in other words, the Chinese navy's fighter planes cannot even come near to the Indian AC,coz the destroyers are equipped with systems which will neutralize any threat, be it aerial or the naval, and subs will take of the threats form enemy subs.
it does't matter whether Indian navy is what kind of tractor, you should have looked at the fighter aircraft, radars, the supporting ships which go along with this AC, even a school drop out can learn to drive a tractor within days, but to land and launch an aircraft form the deck is AC is not an easy job. next time before you open you mouth and make fool out of you self, learn to see what needs to be seen and discuss what needs to be discussed. you were one of the fools who digressed form the topic and started discussing about the tractor, while you ignored all other aspects and concentrated on just a tractor whose only operational use is just to move the fighter aircraft in an AC and nothing more.

if you really want to grow that little brain of yours ,here is the expert opinion on the Chinese AC

Relax: China’s First Aircraft Carrier is a Piece of Junk
 
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@Maleesh , sonny , before you make a fool out of your self, let me just enlighten you a bit, only the most incurable retard will look at the tractor on an AC, anyone with slightest amount of knowledge on AC will look at the stuffs like fighter platforms, Radars, SAM's, whether the deck is of ski jump or flat deck, propulsion, size, its defenses against aerial threats etc etc. Now, if you really want to talk about an tractor here,as one of the retarded Chinese mentioned that tractor was dangerous, let me put it this way to you, those tractors are being used since decades and to this day there has been no single accident attributed to the use of tractor, if there was any danger , than the navy would have replaced them with other equipment long back, probably more than a decade back, however, the very fact that the tractors are still being used clearly indicates that they are safe to use, comfortable,efficient and the navy is satisfied with them. And another talk of it being large,in some sense it is true, but fools here have to understand that hangars will enough space to house the tractors, if there was no space,as is said earlier , those tractors would have never been used, no one will try to make space for tractors by keeping out the planes, so any further talk of the tractor being dangerous and less space is just BULLSH!T form the retards here.

coming to your second point on the Chinese navy personnel being trained on their other AC, well kid, stop talking out of your a$$ here, the most crucial thing that needs to be mastered is the technologies and techniques involved in launching and landing fighter aircraft on the deck of the AC, ever wondered why the news of the first chinese jet taking off from their AC became an international news, so much so that the Chinese even opened thread here on PDF and posted pics of the jet taking off from the deck, it took even the US navy to master the technology and techniques around a decade, in other words, ability to land and launch the fighter aircraft form the deck of AC during night and day, and even in stormy weather is while the AC will be moving simultaneously is most important aspect. in simple words, the other AC's of china which are in dysfunctional sate were never as a training platform, they were used to study the AC to build their own, since the Chinese don't have any experience in building AC,if you had done proper home work, you would have noticed that the Chinese are using this new AC of their as a training platform, other dysfunctional AC were not used as a training platform.

coming to other point,as i mentioned earlier, only the most incurable retard will look at the tractor and judge the destructive ability of the AC, fools like you have to understand here that an AC will not go alone into the water, it will be supported by subs and destroyers, in other words, the Chinese navy's fighter planes cannot even come near to the Indian AC,coz the destroyers are equipped with systems which will neutralize any threat, be it aerial or the naval, and subs will take of the threats form enemy subs.
it does't matter whether Indian navy is what kind of tractor, you should have looked at the fighter aircraft, radars, the supporting ships which go along with this AC, even a school drop out can learn to drive a tractor within days, but to land and launch an aircraft form the deck is AC is not an easy job. next time before you open you mouth and make fool out of you self, learn to see what needs to be seen and discuss what needs to be discussed. you were one of the fools who digressed form the topic and started discussing about the tractor, while you ignored all other aspects and concentrated on just a tractor whose only operational use is just to move the fighter aircraft in an AC and nothing more.

if you really want to grow that little brain of yours ,here is the expert opinion on the Chinese AC

Relax: China¡¯s First Aircraft Carrier is a Piece of Junk

well that was such a long passage to cover up the indian tractor :rofl:

@Maleesh , sonny , before you make a fool out of your self, let me just enlighten you a bit, only the most incurable retard will look at the tractor on an AC, anyone with slightest amount of knowledge on AC will look at the stuffs like fighter platforms, Radars, SAM's, whether the deck is of ski jump or flat deck, propulsion, size, its defenses against aerial threats etc etc. Now, if you really want to talk about an tractor here,as one of the retarded Chinese mentioned that tractor was dangerous, let me put it this way to you, those tractors are being used since decades and to this day there has been no single accident attributed to the use of tractor, if there was any danger , than the navy would have replaced them with other equipment long back, probably more than a decade back, however, the very fact that the tractors are still being used clearly indicates that they are safe to use, comfortable,efficient and the navy is satisfied with them. And another talk of it being large,in some sense it is true, but fools here have to understand that hangars will enough space to house the tractors, if there was no space,as is said earlier , those tractors would have never been used, no one will try to make space for tractors by keeping out the planes, so any further talk of the tractor being dangerous and less space is just BULLSH!T form the retards here.

coming to your second point on the Chinese navy personnel being trained on their other AC, well kid, stop talking out of your a$$ here, the most crucial thing that needs to be mastered is the technologies and techniques involved in launching and landing fighter aircraft on the deck of the AC, ever wondered why the news of the first chinese jet taking off from their AC became an international news, so much so that the Chinese even opened thread here on PDF and posted pics of the jet taking off from the deck, it took even the US navy to master the technology and techniques around a decade, in other words, ability to land and launch the fighter aircraft form the deck of AC during night and day, and even in stormy weather is while the AC will be moving simultaneously is most important aspect. in simple words, the other AC's of china which are in dysfunctional sate were never as a training platform, they were used to study the AC to build their own, since the Chinese don't have any experience in building AC,if you had done proper home work, you would have noticed that the Chinese are using this new AC of their as a training platform, other dysfunctional AC were not used as a training platform.

coming to other point,as i mentioned earlier, only the most incurable retard will look at the tractor and judge the destructive ability of the AC, fools like you have to understand here that an AC will not go alone into the water, it will be supported by subs and destroyers, in other words, the Chinese navy's fighter planes cannot even come near to the Indian AC,coz the destroyers are equipped with systems which will neutralize any threat, be it aerial or the naval, and subs will take of the threats form enemy subs.
it does't matter whether Indian navy is what kind of tractor, you should have looked at the fighter aircraft, radars, the supporting ships which go along with this AC, even a school drop out can learn to drive a tractor within days, but to land and launch an aircraft form the deck is AC is not an easy job. next time before you open you mouth and make fool out of you self, learn to see what needs to be seen and discuss what needs to be discussed. you were one of the fools who digressed form the topic and started discussing about the tractor, while you ignored all other aspects and concentrated on just a tractor whose only operational use is just to move the fighter aircraft in an AC and nothing more.

if you really want to grow that little brain of yours ,here is the expert opinion on the Chinese AC

Relax: China¡¯s First Aircraft Carrier is a Piece of Junk

well that was such a long passage to cover up the indian tractor :rofl:
 
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