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Air Defence of Pakistan

The forst air attack during GW 1 was an apache raid on a forward deployed radar station. As this attack was beign conducted F-117's hit the main telephone exchance and the air force headquarters, thats when the tomahawks hit.

The reason the apaches hit the single forward radar station was to open a corridor on an axis into Kuwait and Iraq for the swarm of allied planes now headed into combat. The strike opened a huge gap, Iraq knew the planes where there but they could not see them.

The stealth fighter strikes on the telephone exchange crippled Iraq. Saddam has investe dheavily in fiber optic technology that was all but imune to everything but severing the lines. So thats what the US did. This reduced much of the Iraqi military to radio transmission wich are subject to jamming,m spoofing, or evesdropping.

The third strike during the intial phase was hitting the IqAF head quartes taking out the uniformed leadership, Iraqi air defense experts and theorists, and the nations war plans.

With no radar coverage of the ingress/egress route, no way to communciate rapidly, and with the uniformed leadership decapitated Iraq's air defense net crumbled.

Iraq's air defense net was a mix of old and ultra modern but faced two serious handicaps. it was overly oreinted in the wrong direction and was built on the Soviet model and stressed central command. Togehter these two flaws let the USAF take the system apart at the seams.

Pakistan can and should learn some valauble lessons form this, and form 71 and 73. SAM's are a force multipliers, not a force substatute. No SAM net has ever defeated a modern airforce. The key for Pakistan is fidign a chink in the Indian network that can be exploited to at least deny India command of the air.
 
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Every one is talking about 'PURCHASING' the solution (short term as they are). Does any one knows what is being developed in Pakistan, indiginousely?
Or they are just 'CONSUMERS' all the time! :bunny:
Kashif
 
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Every one is talking about 'PURCHASING' the solution (short term as they are). Does any one knows what is being developed in Pakistan, indiginousely?
Or they are just 'CONSUMERS' all the time! :bunny:
Kashif

Pakistan is producing a modified APC called Talha. One of the versions of Talha carries RBS-70 and ANZA-3 can also be carried. However to the best of my knowldge, Pakistan does not have a mobile ZSU-23 type Gun Defence system or a Rolland type state of the art Air Defence missile system

Defence production in Pakistan has not reached the level of sophistication that they can design and produce AD equipment tailored to our needs, thus we have make do with what we can afford to buy and others are willing to sell.

However, as someone has said; best Air Defence is with the aircraft and Pakistan badly needs a state of the art air superiority fighter in the Rafael/ Typhoon class. No one has ever defeated an aircraft attack with AD guns/ SAMs only. That is precisely why Pakistan had no option but to do a "U" turn when Colin Powel telephoned Musharraf.
 
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From what I've heard, the MBDA Spada 2000 and IRIS-T SL are the options being considered for the medium-range requirement (to replace Crotale). For long-range I think the Chinese HQ-9 is the most likely option. However the Pakistani Forces evaluate all available options, which may include the MBDA Aster 30 SAMP-T from France.

Personally I'd like Pakistan to procure the MBDA SAMP-T as it has a dual-role function as conventional medium-range SAM and ABM. For short-range anything like MICA VL or Umkhonto would do great.
 
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I think Zraver Post can be a good point of discussion, what say?
 
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Well it can steer the discussion into more productive areas. SAM's serve three main purposes on the modern battle feild 1- as a last line of tactical defence for battle feild units. 2- area denial of likely ingress/egress routes. 3- point defense for fixed Hi-Val targets (including the ABM role).

real air defense requires good fighters mated upto excellent pilots, support staff,and modern weapons. India's SU-30mki is not quite the super bird people think. While an awesome war machine it is stilljust a machine and the confined area wher ecombat is likely reduces the size of the box it will operate in, and thus wher eit can be staged from. Pakistans job is then to find ways to deny these areas to India and even achieve local superioty for a short time. The F-16block 52 is not quite a match but is pretty close specially with the AMRAAM. Pakistan needs the latest versions of this missile which out poerform thier russian equivalents.
 
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According to H Khan on PakDef, the Pakistan Military evaluated the Raytheon/Kongsberg Defence Surface Launched AMRAAM medium-range air defence system through simulations. He reports that the SL-AMRAAM is the front runner for the military's SAM requirement - I assume for medium-range.
 
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No more further military purchases in the US, I hope we go for the Chinese or European system instead.

Once the Democrats take over in Washington, we can say good bye to military cooperation.
 
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No more further military purchases in the US, I hope we go for the Chinese or European system instead.

Once the Democrats take over in Washington, we can say good bye to military cooperation.

I think the co-operation will last until the Afghan situation is resolved. Then it may cool. But remember that sanctions were only applied after nuclear tests, and you are assuming that the democrats WILL win. I think it is a mistake to disregard a option "just in case something might happen".

Most of the purchases made are of large numbers and allow for a large number of spares. If sanctions are applied then the equipment will be able to run until alternatives can be sourced from other suppliers.
 
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I think the co-operation will last until the Afghan situation is resolved. Then it may cool. But remember that sanctions were only applied after nuclear tests, and you are assuming that the democrats WILL win. I think it is a mistake to disregard a option "just in case something might happen".
US can't afford to alianate Pakistan AGAIN, Imho every politician in Washington realises that including friend and foe. The cooperation might continue beyond Afghanistan, specially when Pakistan restors democracy by the end of the year.
Unless Bush scors some extra miles, I expect Democrats to win the election and they can make life hard for us.

Most of the purchases made are of large numbers and allow for a large number of spares. If sanctions are applied then the equipment will be able to run until alternatives can be sourced from other suppliers.
Agree on that!
 
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It all depends on U.S policy and interests. Remember it was under a Republican Government that Pressler was passed - and it was under a Democrat Government that military aid started flowing to Pakistan in the late 1970s. I think U.S policy and interests will require Pakistan for a little while longer - as in well into the 2010s IMO.

According to H Khan - the same source - the Pakistan Military is working with two countries on its long-range SAM requirement. I think one of them is China and the other could be France.

Personally I think SL-AMRAAM is a good choice, the missiles we've already procured. IIRC during IDEAS 2006 the Raytheon official said that the SL-AMRAAM was in competition with MBDA Spada 2000 and Diehl BGT IRIS-T SL for Pakistan's requirement.
 
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No more further military purchases in the US, I hope we go for the Chinese or European system instead.

Once the Democrats take over in Washington, we can say good bye to military cooperation.

thats why i say that we should get the entire weapons packages including the f-16's delivered in side Pakistan at the most delay if has to be say max by mid 2008 in the last hour's of the bush administrations & if that is not possible we should cancel the deal at once wait & see which one takes India's mrca deal then we can fish because the water by then has chances of being a bit calm since many will also lose their bid for the mrca's deal our option's will clearly lie on those once.
thanks
 
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thats why i say that we should get the entire weapons packages including the f-16's delivered in side Pakistan at the most delay if has to be say max by mid 2008 in the last hour's of the bush administrations & if that is not possible we should cancel the deal at once wait & see which one takes India's mrca deal then we can fish because the water by then has chances of being a bit calm since many will also lose their bid for the mrca's deal our option's will clearly lie on those once.
thanks

I second that:tup: its better to wait for india's MRCA deal, till then shop around Beijing........:angel:
 
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thats why i say that we should get the entire weapons packages including the f-16's delivered in side Pakistan at the most delay if has to be say max by mid 2008 in the last hour's of the bush administrations & if that is not possible we should cancel the deal at once wait & see which one takes India's mrca deal then we can fish because the water by then has chances of being a bit calm since many will also lose their bid for the mrca's deal our option's will clearly lie on those once.
thanks

General Sahib,

Technically it is not an option for several reasons. First of all our industry can't absorb an advanced aircraft like block 52 F-16C/D, not to speak US' willingness to sell us ToT.
Secondly our delivery slot for new F-16C/D's is somewhere in 2009, behind the Polish, Greek and Turkish order.

Cancelling the deal would harm us more, it will widen the gap with IAF and financially we're not able to afford sizeable fleet of the Typhoon or the Rafale.
Which will bring us back to the less capable Grippen or the J-10 which won't be available before 2009.

We should stick to the current order, get the MLU package and seek guarantees thru third parties, i.e. Turkey, Eqypt, Jordan or UAE.
 
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