Ahmadis community is facing dire threat

[T-Faz]

Here is the AHMADI website where you can access their "holy scriptures"

Ruhani Khazain 23 Volumes - Books of Hadrat Mirza Ghulam Ahmad Qadiani, The Promised Messiah and Mahdi - Ahmadiyya Muslim Jama'at Urdu Pages

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Now firstly, about why Europeans have a problem with alcohol

Kashti-e-Nooh, Roohani Khazain vol 19 p.71

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And

Jesus) had the habit of uttering obscenities and frequently using foul language. It should be remembered that he (Jesus) had also to some extent the habit of lying." (Zamima Anjam-e-Atham, Roohani Khazain , Vol 11 p.289

http://i1093.photobucket.com/albums/i421/rab_zuk1/AnjamAtham.jpg

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And

"What is your opinion about the character of the Messiah? (it is that Jesus ) was an Alcoholic and Gluttonous person, neither Abstinent nor a Pious Worshipper, nor a Truth seeker. He was a Proud and a Self- conceited Claimant of Divinity." (Nur-ul-Quran, Roohani Khazain Vol 9 p.387)

http://i1093.photobucket.com/albums/i421/rab_zuk1/Noor-sharabi.jpg

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T-Faz, and others.......I will follow up more with regards to what I claimed the Ahmadis claims about Jesus

This was posted on the Express Tribune too in the comments once and I researched it all.

These are actual quotes about the Jesus of the Gospels lifted from old Christian accounts, they are not discussing Hazrat Isa who Muslims believe in.

Jesus from the Gospels is a different character from the one that is mentioned in Islamic scripture.

The Ahmadi website clarifies this matter I'd you read all the volumes.

I desire to make it clear to the readers that my faith in Hazrat Masih, peace be on him, is a very good faith. I believe sincerely that he was a true prophet of God and was loved by Him and I believe that, as indicated by the Holy Quran, he had, as a means of his salvation, perfect faith in our lord and master, Muhammad Mustafa, peace and blessings of Allah be upon him. He was one of the sincere servants of the law of Moses. I respect him according to his station. But the Jesus who is presented by the Christians, who claimed to be God and condemned everyone else except himself, both those who had gone before and who were to come after, as accursed, as having been guilty of vices the recompense of which is a curse, is regarded by us as deprived of Divine mercy. The Holy Quran makes no reference to this impertinent and foul-mouthed Jesus. We are surprised at the conduct of one who considered that God was subject to death and himself claimed to be God and who reviled such righteous ones as were thousand times better than him. In our writings we have had this fictitious Jesus of the Christians in mind. The humble servant of God, Isa, son of Mary, who was a Prophet and is mentioned in the Holy Quran, is not the object of our harsh condemnations. We have had to adopt this method after having endured for forty years the abuse of the Holy Prophet, peace and blessing of Allah be upon him, by the Christian missionaries. (Nurul Quran, No.2)

So you are selectively taking quotes out of context, this was done against Christian missionaries who used to write against Hadhrat Mohammed (SAW).

I am ready to lay down my life in the cause of the faith of Mustafa; this is my sincere purpose which I hope to achieve. Every fibers and muscle of my being is charged with his love. I am empty of my own self and am filled with anxiety on behalf of that beloved.

You can read the rest here, it discusses this matter about how Christian missionaries wrote abuse language against Islam and its Prophet.

The replies targeted Jesus of the Gospels through similar accusations with refrences from Christian history.

Jesus of the Gospels

 

[Janubaba]

This was posted on the Express Tribune too in the comments once and I researched it all.

These are actual quotes about the Jesus of the Gospels lifted from old Christian accounts, they are not discussing Hazrat Isa who Muslims believe in.

Jesus from the Gospels is a different character from the one that is mentioned in Islamic scripture.

The Ahmadi website clarifies this matter I'd you read all the volumes.



So you are selectively taking quotes out of context, this was done against Christian missionaries who used to write against Hadhrat Mohammed (SAW).



You can read the rest here, it discusses this matter about how Christian missionaries wrote abuse language against Islam and its Prophet.

The replies targeted Jesus of the Gospels through similar accusations with refrences from Christian history.

Jesus of the Gospels

Sir Ahmadis main leaders have used lot of abusive language towards Islamic Figures

 

[pak-marine]

there is no such thing in passport form, all it says that I solemnly believe prophet Muhammad to be the last prophet...

well in that case i will suggest you to take a trip down passport office , check pakistans us emabasy link read 16 (c) it on pg 3 experience your self.

http://www.embassyofpakistanusa.org/...20fillable.pdf

 

[lem34]

Sir Ahmadis main leaders have used lot of abusive language towards Islamic Figures

Ok if any of their leaders have done something wrong under pakistani law let the pakistani law deal with it. I often get the feeling that what some are advocating is a lynch mob against minorities in pakistan and this can never be acceptable

 

[Leader]

well in that case i will suggest you to take a trip down passport office , check pakistans us emabasy link read 16 (c) it on pg 3 experience your self.

http://www.embassyofpakistanusa.org/...20fillable.pdf

link doesnot work, I have filled it quite a few times now, I never really bothered giving thoughts to it, as far as I remember there is nothing wrong with muslims declaring Prophet Muhammad as seal of the prophethood.... or in case anyone who believes the same...

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
okay here it is:


16. DECLARATION IN CASE OF MUSLIM.

I, s/d/w/of aged

adult Muslim, resident of _________
hereby solemnly declare that:

a. I am a Muslim and believe in the absolute and unqualified finality of the Prophethood of Muhammad (peace be upon him) the last of the prophets.

b. I do not recognize any person who claims to be prophet in any sense of the word or of any description whatsoever after Muhammad (peace be upon him) or recognize such a claimant as prophet or a religious reformer as a Muslim.

c. I consider Mirza Ghulam Ahmad Quadiani to be an impostor nabi and also consider his followers whether belonging to the Lahori or Quadiani group, to be NON-MUSLIM.


--------------- whats the objection ? discrimination is what should not be done on these basis...

 

[lem34]

link doesnot work, I have filled it quite a few times now, I never really bothered giving thoughts to it, as far as I remember there is nothing wrong with muslims declaring Prophet Muhammad as seal of the prophethood.... or in case anyone who believes the same...

Yes to be a muslim you declare this. But the last time I looked you didnt have to be muslim to be pakistani

 

[Leader]

Yes to be a muslim you declare this. But the last time I looked you didnt have to be muslim to be pakistani

true.... and it isnot taking away your right to be Pakistani, those not Muslims shall pass this article.

and in no way it shall deprive anyone from their belief or it means a force conversion... however, We cannot sacrifice the very fabric of our muslim society, culture, heritage, law, values, morals, etiquettes, system of belief, in short teaching of Quran and Sunnah just to adjust a cult...

 

[Thor]

This was posted on the Express Tribune too in the comments once and I researched it all.

These are actual quotes about the Jesus of the Gospels lifted from old Christian accounts, they are not discussing Hazrat Isa who Muslims believe in.

Jesus from the Gospels is a different character from the one that is mentioned in Islamic scripture.

The Ahmadi website clarifies this matter I'd you read all the volumes.

So you are selectively taking quotes out of context, this was done against Christian missionaries who used to write against Hadhrat Mohammed (SAW).



You can read the rest here, it discusses this matter about how Christian missionaries wrote abuse language against Islam and its Prophet.

The replies targeted Jesus of the Gospels through similar accusations with refrences from Christian history.

Jesus of the Gospels

That is at best the most lame and pathetic excuse I have ever come across.......the wording in his writings is very clear........

Mirza Ghulam Ahmed even went on to mention the fact that he refused to take drugs as people would say one prophet was an alcoholic and the other a drug addict......... I deliberately did not use this point and a copy from Qadiyani scriptures because I was waiting for your lame excuse which Qadiyani have many problems now trying to explain........

He even mentions how he became a woman, and became Mary (AS) where he became pregnant for 10 months and gave birth to himself and in such a way he became Jesus Christ.........this is the mentality of a so called Prophet.........

So please try one better then that as Qadiyani are desparate to say he was qouting here there and everywhere, yet there is absolutely no mention of it in HIS text but his writings a clear to any reader that they are his own words.......... You may want to read thenm or do you want proof again..........as initially you challenged my claims as if they did not exist, so now if you had researched them already, then clearly Sir, you are a liar and was fully aware of them in the first place and tried to play ignorant..........

I will however, now go on to paste in most of his abuse and show why they are non-muslims and not welcome in Islam.......and keeping with this thread, why they are not liked and face such threat.......

 

[Thor]

I recall numerous debate with Matiullah Dard, a senior figure within the Qadiyani cult in Birmingham, UK who as an Urdu lecturer in Joseph Chamberlain Colege was a staunch suppoprter of Mirza Ghulam Ahmad's writings including the abuse against Jessu and the venom he showed towards Jesus Christ only to show that Mirza himself was the true Jesus and that Jesus proper did not live up to the expectations of God hence he was replaced...........their views are pathetic and very shallow, hence why Muslims have a hard time swallowing this pill and refuse and will inshallah continue to refuse to accept them as Muslim

 

[lem34]

I dont understand what the problem is. Declare them as non muslims. But non muslims pakistanis have rights as well. Let the law deal with them if they break the law. Why should we get so excited about what they call themselves. They can call themselves apples for all i care. Their beliefs are in contradiction with ours but so are pakistani hindus and we live with them.

 

[Thor]

I dont understand what the problem is. Declare them as non muslims. But non muslims pakistanis have rights as well. Let the law deal with them if they break the law. Why should we get so excited about what they call themselves. They can call themselves apples for all i care. Their beliefs are in contradiction with ours but so are pakistani hindus and we live with them.

There problem is not with them living as Pakistanis...........if that is what the Quranic and Shariah Law states then they should live in peace.....however the point being made is the decleration of Qadiyanis being called and declared non-muslims is the correct one as being discussed with other embers who have raised this objection as well...........

Pakistani Hindus or Hindus in general are not a by product from Islam.........albeit their 4 vedas hold many simialarities they do not attach themselves to Islam..........Qadiyani however tend to use the Quran and the Muslim ways to forward their venom which then becomes an issue of Islam and Muslims which is why they face hostility.

 

[lem34]

There problem is not with them living as Pakistanis...........if that is what the Quranic and Shariah Law states then they should live in peace.....however the point being made is the decleration of Qadiyanis being called and declared non-muslims is the correct one as being discussed with other embers who have raised this objection as well...........

Ok if the govt has passed a law that they are not muslims we have to abide by that unless the govt changes that. im sorry but from my understanding of their beliefs and I am not an expert they are probably not muslims as I understand the teachings of islam. However I would not condone their treatment as second class system.

 

[Thor]

Just to bring the point forward about Qadiyani claims

"God named me Maryam in the third part of Braheen-e-Ahmadiyya. Then as evident by Braheen-e-Ahmadiyya, for two years I grew as Maryam; then like Maryam the soul of Jesus was breathed into me and I was made pregnant, metaphorically, and after many months, which were not more than 10 months, through inspiration, I was converted into Jesus. Thus, like this I bacame Eisa ibne Maryam." (Kishtee-e-Nooh, Roohani Khazain vol 19, p50

 

[Thor]

Heres the answer for T-Faz of Qadiyani actual understanding of Jesus, not their excuse of believeing that Mirza was referring to the Gospels........

"Once a friend advised me that opium is good for diabetes so there is no harm in taking opium for the purpose of treatment. I replied , thank you very much for your sympathetic advice. But if I get into the habit taking opium I am afraid the people will mock that the first Messiah (Jesus) was an alcoholic and the second a drug addict." (Kashti-e-Nooh, Roohani Khazain vol 19 p.434)

---------- Post added at 02:46 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:44 PM ----------

Ok if the govt has passed a law that they are not muslims we have to abide by that unless the govt changes that. im sorry but from my understanding of their beliefs and I am not an expert they are probably not muslims as I understand the teachings of islam. However I would not condone their treatment as second class system.

No one should be treated as second class citizens, however, Qadiyanis themselves have got no one to blame but themselves as Muslim Students will deamnd answers and they have every right to do so when such claims and alegations are being made which hold deep values for people..........at the end of the day, it is the ISLAMIC REPBLIC OF PAKISTAN and these people have every right to question those living here about their claims which insult the ISLAMIC part of the ISLAMIC REPUBLIC OF PAKISTAN

 

[Porus]

You seem too much over confident , Mullahs were generally against the creation of Pakistan. For them Jinaah was kafir e azam you are totally wrong and twisting the history , only one jammaat of ULAMA " JAMAYAT E ULMA HIND" was against Pakistan and for your information most of its members choosed to live in INDIA ,

Maulana Maududi and his jama'at e islami were the zealous opponents of the creation of Pakistan, Maudidi's disgraceful comments on Jinnah and Pakistan are well-known. Majlis e Ahrar was an another influential Mullah party that used to despise Jinnah and described Pakistan as kafiristan. You have mentioned the stance of JUH on this issue in your previous post. Are we now allowed to say that Mullahs generally were against the creation of Pakistan?

It is an open truth that if a large group of ULAMA was not with Quiad ,the Islamic LOvers ( you call them extremist) of SARHAD and Tribal areas would never had voted Islam ,

When did I call the people of FATA and KP extremists? Yes, I despise the bearded leeches (clergy) who play with the emotions and feelings of the insecure and fearful people who needs the opium of faith and religion that gives them a sense of hope and security in this world of pain and misery, and unfortunately it is the Mullah who controls the quality and dose of this opium.

and talking about Qadyanis , I have old newspaper cutting and books about that , and in one of them the KALIPH of QADYANIS of the round about 1940-1950's time clearly should his true colors for Pakistan ( i am not quoting him as this Forum seems not aprprt to me for such , but if u want to see them there are many ways , the only need is a true Quest )

I have no idea what you're talking about.