Afghan refugees in Pakistan fear deportation.

[RangerPK]

The question is then why should my cousin, who is still a poor farmer in Punjab, not be given a similar allotment of land.

Another way to look at it is why should my cousin be asked to give up part of his birth right - now if my cousin is somehow ok with diluting his birth right or welcomes it then so be it.

I think the Pakistani poor, minorities and disenfranchised should be asked the question: do you want to give tracts of land in Lahore, Karachi, the Federal area and other precious resources to Afghan refugees - if they overwhelmingly say yes then who am I to complain. But I think we all know what their answer to that will be.

As a corollary: privileged Pakistanis or people of Pakistani origin, like myself and possibly most of the people on this forum have no right to dilute the birth right of the Pakistani poor.

Perhaps, I am being to idealistic. Though there are Afghans, like in this video, who have lived majority of their lives in Pakistan and were even born in Pakistan, and they have made an honest living here by opening their own business. They are not a burden to our society. So they are not stealing anyone's "right" to this or that. I am just wondering,

if we could integrate them to our society some how and make them Pakistanis, an asset to our society. Afghans are already working and living here. If there is an Afghan who thinks he is a Pakistani, and earns an honest living. I don't think I should have any problem with him.

Maybe I am being a bit Afghan specific. After 1947, many Indian Muslims migrated to Karachi, 65 + latter. They still call themselves "mohajers" don't you think, it might have been a failure on our part to not have them integrate properly in our society? Should we repeat the same mistake again, or learn from our mistake. Migrants are a reality, if it is not Afghans, it might be someone else. The thing is how we are going to deal with it. Deportation is not always the solution...even if you implement, it does not always work.

PS: The Mojajar part, I know many "mahajars" are patriotic Pakistanis, I just used it as an example, which some people use it as an ethnic card. If any feelings hurt, I am sorry for that.

 

[pakistani342]

Perhaps, I am being to idealistic. Though there are Afghans, like in this video, who have lived majority of their lives in Pakistan and were even born in Pakistan, and they have made an honest living here by opening their own business. They are not a burden to our society. So they are not stealing anyone's "right" to this or that. I am just wondering,

if we could integrate them to our society some how and make them Pakistanis, an asset to our society. Afghans are already working and living here. If there is an Afghan who thinks he is a Pakistani, and earns an honest living. I don't think I should have any problem with him.

Maybe I am being a bit Afghan specific. After 1947, many Indian Muslims migrated to Karachi, 65 + latter. They still call themselves "mohajers" don't you think, it might have been a failure on our part to not have them integrate properly in our society? Should we repeat the same mistake again, or learn from our mistake. Migrants are a reality, if it is not Afghans, it might be someone else. The thing is how we are going to deal with it. Deportation is not always the solution...even if you implement, it does not always work.

PS: The Mojajar part, I know many "mahajars" are patriotic Pakistanis, I just used it as an example, which some people use it as an ethnic card. If any feelings hurt, I am sorry for that.

Well, I think the answer is in your question.

What is the cost as calculated by an economist or someone who knows how to assess such costs?

I am not an economist nor qualified to calculate the cost and unless you claim different I suspect neither are you and perhaps (based on the posts I've seen in this forum) no one on this forum is.

If you read the literature surrounding the Afghan refugees, they always state Pakistani society has paid a significant cost vis-a-vis Afghan refugees. Significant cost is generally code these days for 10s of billions of dollars over some time period.

You can see that even wealthy nations and sparsely populated nations such as Australia are denying entry to Afghans Many Western nations, sadly including the US, are denying or sandbagging on the entry of Afghans (such as language translators) who risked their lives to support their troops in Afghanistan.

Still, Further there is the issue of reciprocity - and the birth right of the Afghan refugees too - I'll write some more on that later.

Still, Further the Afghans and Afghan refugees have made their bed - how they treat Pakistanis and Pakistan echoes in what cost the Pakistani people are willing to bear vis-a-vis them.

Charity cannot be a one way street. If you think differently, perhaps you can drive to my to see my cousin in rural Punjab and try to convince him - though I would wish you luck I think you will be wasting your time.

Perhaps, I am being to idealistic. Though there are Afghans, like in this video, who have lived majority of their lives in Pakistan and were even born in Pakistan, and they have made an honest living here by opening their own business. They are not a burden to our society. So they are not stealing anyone's "right" to this or that. I am just wondering,

if we could integrate them to our society some how and make them Pakistanis, an asset to our society. Afghans are already working and living here. If there is an Afghan who thinks he is a Pakistani, and earns an honest living. I don't think I should have any problem with him.

Maybe I am being a bit Afghan specific. After 1947, many Indian Muslims migrated to Karachi, 65 + latter. They still call themselves "mohajers" don't you think, it might have been a failure on our part to not have them integrate properly in our society? Should we repeat the same mistake again, or learn from our mistake. Migrants are a reality, if it is not Afghans, it might be someone else. The thing is how we are going to deal with it. Deportation is not always the solution...even if you implement, it does not always work.

PS: The Mojajar part, I know many "mahajars" are patriotic Pakistanis, I just used it as an example, which some people use it as an ethnic card. If any feelings hurt, I am sorry for that.

Just curious: do you have personal experience with Afghans like employing them or being employed by them or have close friends who are Afghans or perhaps in your family your are intermarried into them or perhaps you have lived in Afghanistan and worked there or been involved in projects related to Afghanistan or Afghans? - if the answer is no, I would venture to say that you have little or no currency to press the points you are making.

 

[RangerPK]

Those who didn't accept Muhajir and Bengali, what else you expect from them.. Azim's Father was rightfully denied Jinna's invitation (to shift WIPRO to Pakistan)..

Pakistan was not made for Islam, rather it was made for Jamindars/Jagirdars (local lords)..

Stop trolling our threads, you Indian troll. I can understand you people are jealous and obsessed with Pakistan. Stop ruining other people's Threads. Go to your messed up crap threads.

Perhaps this would be more liking to your taste.

http://www.defence.pk/forums/seniors-cafe/241087-rapes-india-news-discussions.html

 

[RangerPK]

Well, I think the answer is in your question.

What is the cost as calculated by an economist or someone who knows how to assess such costs?

I am not an economist nor qualified to calculate the cost and unless you claim different I suspect neither are you and perhaps (based on the posts I've seen in this forum) no one on this forum is.

If you read the literature surrounding the Afghan refugees, they always state Pakistani society has paid a significant cost vis-a-vis Afghan refugees. Significant cost is generally code these days for 10s of billions of dollars over some time period.

You can see that even wealthy nations and sparsely populated nations such as Australia are denying entry to Afghans Many Western nations, sadly including the US, are denying or sandbagging on the entry of Afghans (such as language translators) who risked their lives to support their troops in Afghanistan.

Still, Further there is the issue of reciprocity - and the birth right of the Afghan refugees too - I'll write some more on that later.

Still, Further the Afghans and Afghan refugees have made their bed - how they treat Pakistanis and Pakistan echoes in what cost the Pakistani people are willing to bear vis-a-vis them.

Charity cannot be a one way street. If you think differently, perhaps you can drive to my to see my cousin in rural Punjab and try to convince him - though I would wish you luck I think you will be wasting your time.



Just curious: do you have personal experience with Afghans like employing them or being employed by them or have close friends who are Afghans or perhaps in your family your are intermarried into them or perhaps you have lived in Afghanistan and worked there or been involved in projects related to Afghanistan or Afghans? - if the answer is no, I would venture to say that you have little or no currency to press the points you are making.

No I do not. I live in Lahore, and sometimes I see Afghans (hopefully not confusing them for Pakistani Pushtoons) who usually carry luggage on their backs, or sell carpets, polish boots etc.

 

[pakistani342]

No I do not. I live in Lahore, and sometimes I see Afghans (hopefully not confusing them for Pakistani Pushtoons) who usually carry luggage on their backs, or sell carpets, polish boots etc.

Well, I think again you have answered your question albeit indirectly.

BTW my parents live in Lahore and I'll post an excerpt from an earlier post on the subject of Afghans in Lahore vis-a-vis Pakistanis in Kabul:

BTW @A-Team, you might be interested in the excerpt too - lol

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

An interesting read by Sanjeev Miglani: "From the ground in Afghanistan, an uncertain future" is here.

A poignant excerpt that illustrates the treatment of Pakistanis by Afghans in Afghanistan reads:
To be a Pakistani is a bit more fraught. The body search is rigorous, the questioning hostile, and, more often than not, you have to be rescued by a western colleague especially if you are entering one of those heavily guarded, unmarked restaurants frequented by foreigners.
I'd like to juxtapose this with the Afghan refugees in Pakistan who now encroach, in sizable numbers, localities in Lahore such as Gulberg and Model Town, the Pakistanis are largely aloof to their presence, accepting the refuges almost as their own.

No Afghan in Gulberg, at least, has to be rescued by a western colleague as he or she goes about their business.

The Pakistani people must ask themselves the following question: "Is sharing the limited resources of Pakistan: schools, hospitals, universities, infrastructure with a people who are fundamentally hostile to Pakistanis justifiable?"

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

[RangerPK]

Well, I think again you have answered your question albeit indirectly.

BTW my parents live in Lahore and I'll post an excerpt from an earlier post on the subject of Afghans in Lahore vis-a-vis Pakistanis in Kabul:

BTW @A-Team, you might be interested in the excerpt too - lol

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

An interesting read by Sanjeev Miglani: "From the ground in Afghanistan, an uncertain future" is here.

A poignant excerpt that illustrates the treatment of Pakistanis by Afghans in Afghanistan reads:
To be a Pakistani is a bit more fraught. The body search is rigorous, the questioning hostile, and, more often than not, you have to be rescued by a western colleague especially if you are entering one of those heavily guarded, unmarked restaurants frequented by foreigners.
I'd like to juxtapose this with the Afghan refugees in Pakistan who now encroach, in sizable numbers, localities in Lahore such as Gulberg and Model Town, the Pakistanis are largely aloof to their presence, accepting the refuges almost as their own.

No Afghan in Gulberg, at least, has to be rescued by a western colleague as he or she goes about their business.

The Pakistani people must ask themselves the following question: "Is sharing the limited resources of Pakistan: schools, hospitals, universities, infrastructure with a people who are fundamentally hostile to Pakistanis justifiable?"

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Yes, in a way, seeing Afghans doing such jobs has become a very much part of Lahori culture, and they are not really seen as out siders.

By the way, the article is written by an Indian, about Pakistan and Afghan relations, and we know how much butt hurt these people are. So I would not give much weight to this article.

PS: My experience with Afghans is limited to Lahore.

 

[pakistani342]

Yes, in a way, seeing Afghans doing such jobs has become a very much part of Lahori culture, and they are not really seen as out siders.

By the way, the article is written by an Indian, about Pakistan and Afghan relations, and we know how much butt hurt these people are. So I would not give much weight to this article.

PS: My experience with Afghans is limited to Lahore.

Mmmm, If you are interested I would encourage you to spend some Google time - you will find articles by Pakistanis echo this sentiment pretty closely.

At least my personal interactions with Afghans of various strata in the Diaspora and Pakistan is actually far more negative honestly.

 

[474474]

is it she or he in dupatta?

Bata bhi nhi saktay? Then I'm having doubts about you

 

[474474]

But those ghilamjams are farsiwans. When we speak of Afghan mohajirs we mean ethnic pashtuns with very poor socio-economic conditions. The kabalian of hayatabad are quite rich and can not be compared with poor but hard working pashtun refugees of Afghanistan. I have yet to hear about prostituation culture among pakhtun refugees.

Back agan with your pashtun martial race theory? Yes we all know how pushtuns are the chosens ones incapable of evil

 

[474474]

Just think of them as human beings. I don't know what would I've done if I were in the same situation as the Afghans are today. If someone is treating you bad and you do the same in return, what difference is left between you and them?

Many Pakistanis go to KSA, UAE, US/UK etc, they're being treated severely then slaves (most of them), the west termed or see almost every Pakistani as terrorists, yet, they've never thrown them out of their countries, instead they've accepted them in their society to give them a chance and an opportunity to become a bunch of civilised Pakistanis. What have we given to Afghanis apart from treating them like animals? And yet we expect them to be nice to us. Earning respect is an art, not a gift from God.

Most of the ones in Karachi do act like animals, and still get treated pretty well.

 

[Slayer786]

They should be deported forcibly ASAp. For too many years they have been living inside Pakistan and hating us. We need to get rid of them.

 

[Marwat Khan Lodhi]

Back agan with your pashtun martial race theory? Yes we all know how pushtuns are the chosens ones incapable of evil

Come straight to the point.

 

[Asian.Century]

Refugee: The Afghan returnee's struggle back home

Like countless other Afghan returnees, Bibi Nekbakht, tries to build a new life in Kabul after fleeing Pakistan.

Kabul, Afghanistan - When Bibi Nekbakht and her family were forced to return to Afghanistan last March, they had little hope of finding a better life than the one they had in neighbouring Pakistan.

The return has been especially difficult for the 42-year-old mother of six.

Lacking the money and access to suitable treatment, at a cost of $1,474 to a Pakistani doctor in Islamabad for the chest pains that left her unable to work for three years, she spends most of her day in the room the family rents for $33 a month.

She leaves their secluded east Kabul neighbourhood only when needed - usually to run daily errands and help other recent returnees who are unfamiliar with the Afghan markets and currency.

Like most of the 77,000 Afghans who have returned within the past year, Nekbakht said it was the pressures placed on migrants after the 2014 attack on an army-run school in Peshawar that made their life in Pakistan unbearable.

Though the Tehreek-e-Taliban Pakistan (TTP) claimed responsibility for the violence that led to the deaths of 145, including 132 schoolchildren, officials said the attacks were coordinated by TTP leaders operating on the other side of the Durand Line in Afghanistan.

This revelation led to increased public suspicion of Afghan families, many of whom had spent decades in Pakistan.

Nekbakht said immediately after the attacks, police began to single out Afghans.

"The police would come to your house, accusing you of being in Pakistan illegally. On the streets, they would stop you. They would ask you for an exorbitant bribe or arrest you right there."

The police raids, which Afghans saw as systematic targeting of their community, were too much for many of them to handle.

For years Afghans had grown accustomed to doling out routine bribes when police would stop to ask them for registration cards. However, after the Peshawar attacks, Nekbakht said the amount became higher and bribes more frequent.

Moreover, Afghans had a growing sense that a bribe would not assure you freedom, as the primary goal of the police now seemed to be to deport Afghans.

However, the most anxiety provoking issue was the order for police to focus on deportations that came directly from the top of the chain of command.

On December 19, three days after the massacre, Pervez Khattak, chief minister of Khyber Pakhtunkhwa province, convened a special cabinet meeting to demand all Afghan refugees be expelled within a month's time.

After that, it didn't take long for the Afghan exodus to begin.

Within weeks, thousands of Afghans began to repatriate back to Afghanistan as police raids on their homes became more common.

"We were trapped in our homes. No one ever dared to go to the market," Nekbakht told Al Jazeera.

Every time they stepped out, Nekbakht said they were faced with the threat of being stopped by the police.

Dissent within the community

Returnees have frequently spoken about a growing anxiety after experiencing a range of issues including house raids, eviction notices and rampant extortion.

Nekbakht said the increased scrutiny on Afghan migrants by locals and Pakistani authorities soon led to dissent among the Afghan community in Pakistan.

Those eager to minimise the attention on themselves, began to "snitch" on others, she said.

"They thought the only way to protect themselves was to sell out others."

She recalls a February evening when authorities came banging on her door in the northern Pakistani city of Attock where her family had lived for seven years.

"It was 10pm, they kept [...] demanding to be let in."

With the males of the family most likely to be arrested her sons looked for an escape.

"My two eldest sons had sneaked out the back while we refused to open the door."

Though their neighbours were able to persuade the police to leave, Nekbakht said they could only evade the authorities for so long.

Fighting for legal status

Nekbakht said her family had tried in earnest to obtain refugee registration cards from the United Nations during their seven years in Pakistan.

"They just kept saying there were none."

For years, her family survived by paying bribes, but the combined pressures of local suspicions following the Peshawar attack, and the Afghan informants, made staying in Pakistan almost impossible.

However, it was another Afghan named Khairodin who dealt the final blow.

Upset that the family was demanding repayment of a wedding loan, Khairodin snitched on the family's status.

"He was angry […] so he told [the authorities] we had no registration cards."

With the authorities forcing them to leave, the family packed up what they could and headed back on a crowded lorry to a country they had fled seven years before due to insecurity and a lack of economic opportunities.

When her family crossed the Torkham border into Afghanistan in March, Nekbakhthoped the UN or Afghan government would help them.

"We were promised help, but it's been three months and no one, not the UN and not the government has come."

But after a reduction in international aid money over the last two years throughout the course of the international troop withdrawal, and with Afghanistan's Ministry of Refugees and Repatriation budget slashed from $1.2m to $250,000 this year, help never came.

The first few weeks

For Nekbakht, who had only briefly lived in the Afghan capital as a child, the initial weeks in Kabul were especially tough.

"For 20 days we stayed in other people's houses, eating their food," she said.

Eventually, they found a small room in a house in Chaharqala, the neighbourhood many others from the Attock community had come to.

Nekbakht acknowledges that the cramped room, with paint chipping off the water-damaged walls is too small for a family of seven to sleep, eat and study in, but says she is happy to at least be near other returnees from the northwest Pakistan community.

Nestled in between the roads leading to the airport and the main commercial centre of Kabul, Chaharqala, provides the family with a sense of seclusion and safety without being entirely cut off from the rest of the capital.

"Everyday at 4am my son wakes up to sell vegetables from a cart while my husband stands on a roundabout hoping to find construction work. "With no government or international assistance, her husband, Kamal, and eldest son, Mohammad Musa, 18, quickly got to work to pay the $33 a month rent.

The economic downturn following last year's presidential elections that stretched out for more than 10 months means they are just barely able to make ends meet.

Her son's vegetable cart only brings in only $2.50 to $3.33 a day, barely enough to pay for their simple daily meals.

Follow Ali Latifi on Twitter: @alibomaye

Refugee: The Afghan returnee's struggle back home - Al Jazeera English

 

[FenrirX]

Wow we get criticized for kicking out people living on our expense for like decades lol yet never got appreciated at any level. Afghan nation is a very very ungrateful nation they give no **** what you did for them.They are super easy to fool though(I'm an Afghan descendant myself ).Their ego and stupid ethical pride is the deadliest for the peaceful ones.
Pakistan should never had made this mistake in first place. Coldwar sent us decades back, we could have been blooming now but no we had to be a good musalman bhai

 

[Sine Nomine]

lolzzz.......some thousands out of 10 million....