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Afghan refugees face repatriation after 30 years in Pakistan

“Do not be people without minds of your own, saying that if others treat you well you will treat them well and that if they do wrong you will do wrong. But (instead) accustom yourselves to do good if people do good and not to do wrong if they do evil.”
——— Prophet Muhammad (s) as reported in Al-Tirmidhi, Hadith 1325.
 
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Asalam o Alaikum dear respected members ! Every phenomenon has many aspects, Lets see what kind of treatment has given to those Pakistanis who visited Afghanistan in past years even when Afghans are enjoying tax free and secured life, free for doing any kind of business over here in Pakistan, Enjoyed every facility which in-fact many Pakistani themselves did not. We Pakistanis are facing the Emergency Like situation all the time for the last many years since Russian Invasion on Afghanistan, Over Populated roads , Economic crises for average Pakistani, Lack of opportunities for Pakistanis, Bribery culture extremely flourished after afghan refugees came to Pakistan. And Now "TERRORISM" !
 
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pakistani342 said:
Yes, how did you arrive at the conclusion that they are exaggerated.

Yes the stories would have been totally lost had it not for been the fact that the German state kept immaculate records.

Anyway -- your disgraceful comprehension of the subject is sadly prevalent in the Muslim world.

The victims of the Holocaust are no-more but such attitudes have poisoned the Muslim world -- its victims are Muslims
Click to expand...

It's shameful when some supposed members of the Pakistani Military come up with statements like the one that you rightly challenged.

These people do more harm to Pakistan and it's international standing than all the enemies of Pakistan.
 
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pakistani342 said:
I mean I don't know how you grew up -- what you studied to make this statement.

The Nazis were not some hip high school band -- if you want to understand what the Nazis did to the Jewish people and other minorities, you may want to read this thin book: "Night" by Nobel laureate Elie Wiesel. The Nazis: De-humanized: Humiliated, Starved, Dispossessed, Tortured, Experimented-on and finally killed 6 million human beings who happened to be Jews. Doing that to Animals is a grave crime let alone Human beings

I personally would prefer the collapse of Pakistan to anything approaching the crimes Nazis perpetrated against the Jewish people.

Please please please, for your own sake study what the Nazis did and imagine if this was done to you, your brothers, sisters, parts and then think about the statement you made.
Click to expand...

There you go my friend @pakistani342 some of the characters that I have to deal with at PDF.
 
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Lets not be heartless here. These refugees have no link or relationship with the various Pakistano-phobic Afghan governments that have come into power. They see Pakistan as their homeland. I feel sympathy for them because I was the same story. My family moved from Lucknow and surrounding parts and today I am willing to die for Pakistan. This speaks of a missed opportunity by Pakistani government to assimilate people who are more loyal to Pakistan than Afghanistan. This is like the case of Biharis and millions of loyal Bangalis. I think we are making a mistake here by following such a draconian immigration policy.
 
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pakistani342 said:
I mean I don't know how you grew up -- what you studied to make this statement.

The Nazis were not some hip high school band -- if you want to understand what the Nazis did to the Jewish people and other minorities, you may want to read this thin book: "Night" by Nobel laureate Elie Wiesel. The Nazis: De-humanized: Humiliated, Starved, Dispossessed, Tortured, Experimented-on and finally killed 6 million human beings who happened to be Jews. Doing that to Animals is a grave crime let alone Human beings

I personally would prefer the collapse of Pakistan to anything approaching the crimes Nazis perpetrated against the Jewish people.

Please please please, for your own sake study what the Nazis did and imagine if this was done to you, your brothers, sisters, parts and then think about the statement you made.
Click to expand...

Yes, people should study what the N.S Germans did and WW II. With an open mind and a critical mind.


http://questioningtheholocaust.com/


http://germarrudolf.com/germars-views/an-introduction-to-historical-revisionism/#3

*****

"What is revisionism?
The word “Revisionism” is derived from the Latin word “revidere,” which means to view again. The revision of long held theories is entirely normal. It occurs in the natural sciences as well as the social sciences, to which the discipline of history belongs. Science is not a static condition. It is a process, specifically the creating of knowledge by searching for evidence. When ongoing research finds new evidence, or when critical researchers discover mistakes in old explanations, it often happens that old theories have to be changed or even abandoned.

By “Revisionism” we mean critically examining established theories and hypotheses in order to test their validity. Scientists need to know when new evidence modifies or contradicts old theories; indeed, one of their main obligations is to test time-honored conceptions and attempt to refute them. Only in an open society in which individuals are free to challenge prevailing theories can we ascertain the validity of these theories, and be confident that we are approaching the truth. For a fuller discussion of this, the reader should acquaint himself with the essay by Dr. C. Nordbruch in the Neuer Zürcher Zeitung of 12 June 1999."

"What does Holocaust revisionism claim?
First of all, because of false representations by the media, it is necessary that we first clarify what Holocaust Revisionism does not maintain:

  • it does not deny that Jews were persecuted under the Third Reich;
  • it does not deny that Jews were deprived of civil rights;
  • it does not deny that Jews were deported;
  • it does not deny the existence of Jewish ghettos;
  • it does not deny the existence of concentration camps;
  • it does not deny the existence of crematoriums in concentration camps;
  • it does not deny that Jews died for a great number of reasons;
  • it does not deny that other minorities were also persecuted such as gypsies, Jehovah’s Witnesses, homosexuals, and political dissenters;
  • and finally, it does not deny that all the above mentioned things were unjust.
None of these crimes of the National Socialist regime are doubted by Holocaust revisionists. In the view of the Revisionists, however, all these injustices have nothing to do with the Holocaust, which is defined as planned and organized mass murder, carried out specifically in homicidal gas chambers (see Question 4)."

****

http://tomatobubble.com/elie_wiesel_phony.html


http://www.revisionists.com/index.html

http://www.tomatobubble.com/holocaust_hoax.html

http://www.tomatobubble.com/hh1936.html

https://redice.tv/red-ice-radio/breaking-the-spell-the-holocaust-myth-and-reality

https://redice.tv/red-ice-radio/making-critical-thinking-illegal-questioning-the-holocaust


Remember keep a critical mind people!

haviZsultan said:
Lets not be heartless here. These refugees have no link or relationship with the various Pakistano-phobic Afghan governments that have come into power. They see Pakistan as their homeland. I feel sympathy for them because I was the same story. My family moved from Lucknow and surrounding parts and today I am willing to die for Pakistan. This speaks of a missed opportunity by Pakistani government to assimilate people who are more loyal to Pakistan than Afghanistan. This is like the case of Biharis and millions of loyal Bangalis. I think we are making a mistake here by following such a draconian immigration policy.
Click to expand...
Pakistan has to ensure that whoever wishes to become Pakistani is true to the matter for what she was created for. Your ancestors took part in the struggle for her creation and those Biharis and Bengalis who stood by Pakistan are not the same as economic migrants. Discrimination is needed along with discretion.
 
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TMA said:
Yes, people should study what the N.S Germans did and WW II. With an open mind and a critical mind.


http://questioningtheholocaust.com/


http://germarrudolf.com/germars-views/an-introduction-to-historical-revisionism/#3

*****

"What is revisionism?
The word “Revisionism” is derived from the Latin word “revidere,” which means to view again. The revision of long held theories is entirely normal. It occurs in the natural sciences as well as the social sciences, to which the discipline of history belongs. Science is not a static condition. It is a process, specifically the creating of knowledge by searching for evidence. When ongoing research finds new evidence, or when critical researchers discover mistakes in old explanations, it often happens that old theories have to be changed or even abandoned.

By “Revisionism” we mean critically examining established theories and hypotheses in order to test their validity. Scientists need to know when new evidence modifies or contradicts old theories; indeed, one of their main obligations is to test time-honored conceptions and attempt to refute them. Only in an open society in which individuals are free to challenge prevailing theories can we ascertain the validity of these theories, and be confident that we are approaching the truth. For a fuller discussion of this, the reader should acquaint himself with the essay by Dr. C. Nordbruch in the Neuer Zürcher Zeitung of 12 June 1999."

"What does Holocaust revisionism claim?
First of all, because of false representations by the media, it is necessary that we first clarify what Holocaust Revisionism does not maintain:

  • it does not deny that Jews were persecuted under the Third Reich;
  • it does not deny that Jews were deprived of civil rights;
  • it does not deny that Jews were deported;
  • it does not deny the existence of Jewish ghettos;
  • it does not deny the existence of concentration camps;
  • it does not deny the existence of crematoriums in concentration camps;
  • it does not deny that Jews died for a great number of reasons;
  • it does not deny that other minorities were also persecuted such as gypsies, Jehovah’s Witnesses, homosexuals, and political dissenters;
  • and finally, it does not deny that all the above mentioned things were unjust.
None of these crimes of the National Socialist regime are doubted by Holocaust revisionists. In the view of the Revisionists, however, all these injustices have nothing to do with the Holocaust, which is defined as planned and organized mass murder, carried out specifically in homicidal gas chambers (see Question 4)."

****

http://tomatobubble.com/elie_wiesel_phony.html


http://www.revisionists.com/index.html

http://www.tomatobubble.com/holocaust_hoax.html

http://www.tomatobubble.com/hh1936.html

https://redice.tv/red-ice-radio/breaking-the-spell-the-holocaust-myth-and-reality

https://redice.tv/red-ice-radio/making-critical-thinking-illegal-questioning-the-holocaust


Remember keep a critical mind people!
Click to expand...

I honestly don't know where to start -- the list is so long.

One thing might help is if you rate each one of the links you have posted: Academicians for example do that with their references.

What I've decided to do is post some links on responding to Holocaust deniers -- perhaps they will help you -- feel free to apply the same criteria I suggested above:

1. Responses to Revisionist Arguments @ wiesenthal.com
2. COMBATING HOLOCAUST DENIAL: ORIGINS OF HOLOCAUST DENIAL @ usher.org
3. Israel, the Holocaust, and Anti-Semitism @ chomsky.info -- excerpt below:
He’s one of the founders of the Jewish state and the Zionist movement and one of the elder statesmen, a very honest man, he — just before his death in 1982 or so — made a rather eloquent and unusual statement in which he said that it’s — he used the Hebrew word for “sacrilege” — he said it’s sacrilege to use the Holocaust as a justification for oppressing others. He was referring to something very real: exploitation of probably the world’s most horrifying atrocity in order to justify oppression of others. That kind of manipulation is really sick.​

I'm tired today so I cannot combat you further in your holocaust denial today -- perhaps I'll think of a more systematic approach -- sadly it seems this is a more common disease here on defense.pk than what I would have thought?

@nangyale -- perhaps we should collaborate on this and answering anti-semitism.
 
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pakistani342 said:
I honestly don't know where to start -- the list is so long.

One thing might help is if you rate each one of the links you have posted: Academicians for example do that with their references.

What I've decided to do is post some links on responding to Holocaust deniers -- perhaps they will help you -- feel free to apply the same criteria I suggested above:

1. Responses to Revisionist Arguments @ wiesenthal.com
2. COMBATING HOLOCAUST DENIAL: ORIGINS OF HOLOCAUST DENIAL @ usher.org
3. Israel, the Holocaust, and Anti-Semitism @ chomsky.info -- excerpt below:
He’s one of the founders of the Jewish state and the Zionist movement and one of the elder statesmen, a very honest man, he — just before his death in 1982 or so — made a rather eloquent and unusual statement in which he said that it’s — he used the Hebrew word for “sacrilege” — he said it’s sacrilege to use the Holocaust as a justification for oppressing others. He was referring to something very real: exploitation of probably the world’s most horrifying atrocity in order to justify oppression of others. That kind of manipulation is really sick.​

I'm tired today so I cannot combat you further in your holocaust denial today -- perhaps I'll think of a more systematic approach -- sadly it seems this is a more common disease here on defense.pk than what I would have thought?

@nangyale -- perhaps we should collaborate on this and answering anti-semitism.
Click to expand...
Sorry for not providing a rating, I am not an academic.

There is no need to combat me. Plus it is unfair to use the term holocaust denier as this presupposes that the Holocaust happened or to consider those who question and refuse to believe the Holocaust as suffering from a disease; but if you wish to use this, it does not trouble me personally.

Ratings of the links I provided above:

1.http://germarrudolf.com/germars-views/an-introduction-to-historical-revisionism/#12

In my opinion the best introduction to Historical Revisionism and Holocaust Revisionism. Indeed I very much recommend the entire website. Specific webpages as follows.

1a. http://germarrudolf.com/germars-views/false-claims-about-revisionism/
1b. http://germarrudolf.com/germars-views/the-holocaust-controversy/
1c. http://germarrudolf.com/germars-views/the-first-holocaust/

2. http://questioningtheholocaust.com/

A recent documentary on "Questioning The Holocaust" taking into old and more recent evidences.




3.

An Introduction to Holocaust Revisionism by Prof Faurisson. A bit old and now outdated but still a good introduction by one of the foremost revisionists.

The remainder are in not in any particular order:
This is just the tip of the iceberg. There are so many unanswered questions. So many obfuscations. Imagine in many European countries human beings can be jailed for asking questions about history. Truth does not need laws to protect itself.

From http://motlc.wiesenthal.com/site/pp.asp?c=gvKVLcMVIuG&b=394667
"No crime in history has been as well-documented as the Holocaust. Proof of the Holocaust is multi-faceted. It is demonstrated by a myriad of documents, the majority of them Nazi-authored, captured by Allied troops before the Germans had a chance to destroy them. Included are detailed reports of mass shootings and gassings. Some 3,000 documents on the destruction of Europe's Jewish community by the Nazis were, in fact, presented by the prosection before war crimes tribunals at Nuremberg..."


From https://www.ushmm.org/wlc/en/article.php?ModuleId=10007273
"The Holocaust was a state secret in Nazi Germany. The Germans wrote down as little as possible. Most of the killing orders were verbal, particularly at the highest levels. Hitler's order to kill Jews was issued only on a need-to-know basis..."

A crime that was intended by the NS German State to physically exterminate the Jews, had state finance, had a systematic plan, had industrial scale methods of killing (principally via the means of homicidal gas chambers) and had industrial scale methods of disposing the corpses. This is something unique in recorded human history according to Holocaust authorities.
This is described by some Holocaust authorities as the best documented crime demonstrated "by a myriad of documents..." and by others as " The Germans wrote down as little as possible. Most of the killing orders were verbal...".

It begs so many questions!
 
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TMA said:
Sorry for not providing a rating, I am not an academic.

There is no need to combat me. Plus it is unfair to use the term holocaust denier as this presupposes that the Holocaust happened or to consider those who question and refuse to believe the Holocaust as suffering from a disease; but if you wish to use this, it does not trouble me personally.

Ratings of the links I provided above:

1.http://germarrudolf.com/germars-views/an-introduction-to-historical-revisionism/#12

In my opinion the best introduction to Historical Revisionism and Holocaust Revisionism. Indeed I very much recommend the entire website. Specific webpages as follows.

1a. http://germarrudolf.com/germars-views/false-claims-about-revisionism/
1b. http://germarrudolf.com/germars-views/the-holocaust-controversy/
1c. http://germarrudolf.com/germars-views/the-first-holocaust/

2. http://questioningtheholocaust.com/

A recent documentary on "Questioning The Holocaust" taking into old and more recent evidences.




3.

An Introduction to Holocaust Revisionism by Prof Faurisson. A bit old and now outdated but still a good introduction by one of the foremost revisionists.

The remainder are in not in any particular order:
This is just the tip of the iceberg. There are so many unanswered questions. So many obfuscations. Imagine in many European countries human beings can be jailed for asking questions about history. Truth does not need laws to protect itself.

From http://motlc.wiesenthal.com/site/pp.asp?c=gvKVLcMVIuG&b=394667
"No crime in history has been as well-documented as the Holocaust. Proof of the Holocaust is multi-faceted. It is demonstrated by a myriad of documents, the majority of them Nazi-authored, captured by Allied troops before the Germans had a chance to destroy them. Included are detailed reports of mass shootings and gassings. Some 3,000 documents on the destruction of Europe's Jewish community by the Nazis were, in fact, presented by the prosection before war crimes tribunals at Nuremberg..."


From https://www.ushmm.org/wlc/en/article.php?ModuleId=10007273
"The Holocaust was a state secret in Nazi Germany. The Germans wrote down as little as possible. Most of the killing orders were verbal, particularly at the highest levels. Hitler's order to kill Jews was issued only on a need-to-know basis..."

A crime that was intended by the NS German State to physically exterminate the Jews, had state finance, had a systematic plan, had industrial scale methods of killing (principally via the means of homicidal gas chambers) and had industrial scale methods of disposing the corpses. This is something unique in recorded human history according to Holocaust authorities.
This is described by some Holocaust authorities as the best documented crime demonstrated "by a myriad of documents..." and by others as " The Germans wrote down as little as possible. Most of the killing orders were verbal...".

It begs so many questions!
Click to expand...

My brother, scientific method, scientific method -- sadly I think I cannot help you -- you need to see a specialist

Perhaps the Government of Israel should have a field trip for people who suffer from your affliction to Yad Vesham -- it can only do good.
 
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pakistani342 said:
My brother, scientific method, scientific method -- sadly I think I cannot help you -- you need to see a specialist

Perhaps the Government of Israel should have a field trip for people who suffer from your affliction to Yad Vesham -- it can only do good.
Click to expand...
What is the scientific method? Please tell me your opinion? Anyway have you read at least the first link? Germar Rudolf is very scientific. He was a scientist.

His education @ http://germarrudolf.com/germars-education/

"In a way, my education has never stopped, as I keep learning new things every day. But that’s not what this section of my website is all about. Formal education is its focus. Here are the various steps of my formal education as listed in my CV:

Two academic theses resulted from all this learning: My master’s thesis on hydrogen/oxygen fuel cells as well as my PhD thesis on “Periodic Nodal Surfaces.” Both of them I’ve posted here, each with a brief introduction. While my PhD thesis is available in an English translation which I prepared while incarcerated (the translation, not the thesis), my master’s thesis exists only in its original German. The original German version of my PhD thesis I might post as well at some point, later…"

Visiting Yad Vashem does not prove that the N.S Germans had a state organized plan with the financial means to physically exterminate Jews along with the technical and highly organized methods of accomplishing this and then to manage the corpses.

Also you have not answered the links that I posted (perhaps you will with time?) This is not for my sake but for yours and moreso others who wil read this exchange afterwards. All you have done is used subtle ad hominems on me.

Remember the onus is on the accuser to prove his case. The N.S Germans were accused of this crime. The were found guilty in court composed of their victors and the rules were set by the victors - which means there was a serious conflict of interest and also they were found guilty in the court of mainstream media/Hollywood - which is not to be taken seriously at all. I feel along with others that these are enough grounds to be skeptical.

From Gemar Rudolf's website:

"3. Why is Holocaust revisionism necessary?
The Holocaust is – or should – be a historical event and not a matter of religion. As such it is subject to the same kind of research and scrutiny as other past events, and so our conceptions of the Holocaust must be subjected to critical investigation. If new evidence necessitates a change of our view of the Holocaust, then a change must take place. The same holds true when old assumptions are proven false. There is nothing reprehensible about questioning the accuracy of scientific assertions and attempting to deny their validity. Therefore, it is not reprehensible to approach prevailing conceptions of the Holocaust with skepticism, as long as it is done objectively and we have valid reasons to be skeptical."
 
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TMA said:
What is the scientific method? Please tell me your opinion? Anyway have you read at least the first link? Germar Rudolf is very scientific. He was a scientist.

His education @ http://germarrudolf.com/germars-education/

"In a way, my education has never stopped, as I keep learning new things every day. But that’s not what this section of my website is all about. Formal education is its focus. Here are the various steps of my formal education as listed in my CV:

Two academic theses resulted from all this learning: My master’s thesis on hydrogen/oxygen fuel cells as well as my PhD thesis on “Periodic Nodal Surfaces.” Both of them I’ve posted here, each with a brief introduction. While my PhD thesis is available in an English translation which I prepared while incarcerated (the translation, not the thesis), my master’s thesis exists only in its original German. The original German version of my PhD thesis I might post as well at some point, later…"

Visiting Yad Vashem does not prove that the N.S Germans had a state organized plan with the financial means to physically exterminate Jews along with the technical and highly organized methods of accomplishing this and then to manage the corpses.

Also you have not answered the links that I posted (perhaps you will with time?) This is not for my sake but for yours and moreso others who wil read this exchange afterwards. All you have done is used subtle ad hominems on me.

Remember the onus is on the accuser to prove his case. The N.S Germans were accused of this crime. The were found guilty in court composed of their victors and the rules were set by the victors - which means there was a serious conflict of interest and also they were found guilty in the court of mainstream media/Hollywood - which is not to be taken seriously at all. I feel along with others that these are enough grounds to be skeptical.

From Gemar Rudolf's website:

"3. Why is Holocaust revisionism necessary?
The Holocaust is – or should – be a historical event and not a matter of religion. As such it is subject to the same kind of research and scrutiny as other past events, and so our conceptions of the Holocaust must be subjected to critical investigation. If new evidence necessitates a change of our view of the Holocaust, then a change must take place. The same holds true when old assumptions are proven false. There is nothing reprehensible about questioning the accuracy of scientific assertions and attempting to deny their validity. Therefore, it is not reprehensible to approach prevailing conceptions of the Holocaust with skepticism, as long as it is done objectively and we have valid reasons to be skeptical."
Click to expand...

Seriously this is you:

Post-graduate PhD studies at the Max Planck Institute for Solid State Research, Stuttgart (www.fkf.mpg.de) in conjunction with the University of Stuttgart, Germany (www.uni-stuttgart.de), 1990-1993

I cannot help you then. I don't have the spare time to argue on this subject and I may need to better prepare myself. It is tempting though, this in my opinion remains one of the most important issues of our time.

I thought you might be a college student ... the Nazis and the German people themselves were highly educated -- the scary part of the Holocaust is that it happened in the 20th century, about 40 years after man took flight and about 20 years before Man landed on the moon.

I think a lot of the Muslims world has taught its children to have in the last 40 years -- the Palestinians may have legitimate grievances but to vaccinate oneself hate to force oneself to be more extreme and intransigent is self-defeating. The same can be said for Pakistan -- Pakistanis been feeding our children hate of India and it has brought nothing but misery for Pakistanis.
 
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pakistani342 said:
Seriously this is you:

Post-graduate PhD studies at the Max Planck Institute for Solid State Research, Stuttgart (www.fkf.mpg.de) in conjunction with the University of Stuttgart, Germany (www.uni-stuttgart.de), 1990-1993

I cannot help you then.
Click to expand...

I am not looking for your help. Why do you think I am asking for your help? I do not consider myself mentally defective or suffering from "affliction".

What evidences would satisfy you?

I used to be a believer: I learned about the Holocaust since I was child in school; from television documentaries and of course Hollywood. But I became skeptical with information that I came across the internet and I saw opposing arguments and this lead me to become a "Holocaust denier".

All I am saying that is not wrong for people to be skeptical of historical events and to re-investigate. It seems that you do not like this or wish to continue on this discussion. Fair enough. I hope that others who will come across this exchange will take benefit from it.

I should add that my question about what is the scientic method was rhetorical. Although I am not a scientist, I do have a basic understanding of it.
It is the proponents of the Holocaust who have a shaky scientific approach. The onus is on them to prove the accusation. The onus is on them to prove there were homicidal gas chambers, the onus is on them to prove that there was a state planned and state financed objective in physically exterminating Jews.
 
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TMA said:
I am not looking for your help. Why do you think I am asking for your help? I do not consider myself mentally defective or suffering from "affliction".

What evidences would satisfy you?

I used to be a believer: I learned about the Holocaust since I was child in school; from television documentaries and of course Hollywood. But I became skeptical with information that I came across the internet and I saw opposing arguments and this lead me to become a "Holocaust denier".

All I am saying that is not wrong for people to be skeptical of historical events and to re-investigate. It seems that you do not like this or wish to continue on this discussion. Fair enough. I hope that others who will come across this exchange will take benefit from it.
Click to expand...

Any respected researcher that debunks a necessary and sufficient component of the evidence.
For example:
1. if someone can successfully debunks that the Nazi records used in the calculation of the number of people killed
2. if someone can refute the narratives and eye witness accounts of the survivors
3. if someone can refute the narratives of the decedents

would be a small start.

TMA said:
I am not looking for your help. Why do you think I am asking for your help? I do not consider myself mentally defective or suffering from "affliction".

What evidences would satisfy you?

I used to be a believer: I learned about the Holocaust since I was child in school; from television documentaries and of course Hollywood. But I became skeptical with information that I came across the internet and I saw opposing arguments and this lead me to become a "Holocaust denier".

All I am saying that is not wrong for people to be skeptical of historical events and to re-investigate. It seems that you do not like this or wish to continue on this discussion. Fair enough. I hope that others who will come across this exchange will take benefit from it.

I should add that my question about what is the scientic method was rhetorical. Although I am not a scientist, I do have a basic understanding of it.
It is the proponents of the Holocaust who have a shaky scientific approach. The onus is on them to prove the accusation. The onus is on them to prove there were homicidal gas chambers, the onus is on them to prove that there was a state planned and state financed objective in physically exterminating Jews.
Click to expand...

Curious:
1. Have you met any holocaust survivors?
2. Have you met people who work with, are friends with or relatives of holocaust survivors?

On a very very personal level:
I have had the privilege of both (naturally a handful of the first category as opposed to the second) -- these are people I respect; some are professors of mine; some are mentors; other colleagues other just friends and people who helped me in life.

They don't like to talk too much about their experiences -- but I'd question my sanity before questioning the hell on earth they lived through.

pakistani342 said:
Any respected researcher that debunks a necessary and sufficient component of the evidence.
For example:
1. if someone can successfully debunks that the Nazi records used in the calculation of the number of people killed
2. if someone can refute the narratives and eye witness accounts of the survivors
3. if someone can refute the narratives of the decedents

would be a small start.



Curious:
1. Have you met any holocaust survivors?
2. Have you met people who work with, are friends with or relatives of holocaust survivors?

On a very very personal level:
I have had the privilege of both (naturally a handful of the first category as opposed to the second) -- these are people I respect; some are professors of mine; some are mentors; other colleagues other just friends and people who helped me in life.

They don't like to talk too much about their experiences -- but I'd question my sanity before questioning the hell on earth they lived through.
Click to expand...


Oh ok -- sorry I misunderstood -- this is not you -- is the guy you cited.

Post-graduate PhD studies at the Max Planck Institute for Solid State Research, Stuttgart (www.fkf.mpg.de) in conjunction with the University of Stuttgart, Germany (www.uni-stuttgart.de), 1990-1993

Scientific method have very specific connotations -- admittedly my knowledge of it is in the hard sciences a less so in social sciences and history -- but at the level we're discussing it mean something a certain type of rigor.
 
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