Afghan peace process cannot be Pakistan driven: India

[Nalwa]

India is jumping by seeing regional peace initiative is taking shape but no one give a dime of attention to india. india has as much role as a camel has in snow. India has no boarder with Afghanistan and they should just shut it. US no longer feels india is part of any afghan equation. In fact US finally realized indian had already created problem and tried to use US for its nefarious agenda.

Really? Did Hillary Clinton personally say that to you. Stop making stupid statements.

 

[TaimiKhan]

Ya thats the attitude Afghans detest ..you think you will be able to dictate terms to them?

Have I mentioned anything that we are gonna dictate to Afghans ?? I don't believe so nor do i intend, as Afghans are in independent nation and should choose for themselves, but if their actions threaten us, then we will take whatever measures required. If we think there are gonna be problematic people running the show in Kabul who will let others use them to hurt Pakistan, we will not allow that and take every step necessary to not let Afghan govt do that.

And the presence of other occupying nations in Kabul is the main stimulus which will not let the Afghan people stop fighting and they will fight till the occupation ends and interfering in the Afghan affairs by India just to harm Pakistan is not gonna get things settled down, if that is what you mean, we will fight back at whatever the cost.

 

[ares]

Have I mentioned anything that we are gonna dictate to Afghans ?? I don't believe so nor do i intend, as Afghans are in independent nation and should choose for themselves, but if their actions threaten us, then we will take whatever measures required. If we think there are gonna be problematic people running the show in Kabul who will let others use them to hurt Pakistan, we will not allow that and take every step necessary to not let Afghan govt do that.

And the presence of other occupying nations in Kabul is the main stimulus which will not let the Afghan people stop fighting and they will fight till the occupation ends and interfering in the Afghan affairs by India just to harm Pakistan is not gonna get things settled down, if that is what you mean, we will fight back at whatever the cost.

Depends on what you define as "threaten you".

If it is the elusive strategic depth you are still looking for..then that will remain elusive for foreseeable future.

However if you are talking about interfering if Afghans supports anti-Pakistan elements ...though plausible a reason..it remain a pretty broad Casus belli ..and same can be the pretext for Indian or American interference in Pakistan.

As far stimulus for infighting is concerned..they don't need one ..there were no foreign stimulants in 90s.. yet the infighting remained.
Peace can prevail only when one side has the complete victory(not necessarily military) over the other.

 

[TaimiKhan]

Depends on what you define as "threaten you".

If it is the elusive strategic depth you are still looking for..then that will remain elusive for foreseeable future.

However if you are talking about interfering if Afghans supports anti-Pakistan elements ...though plausible a reason..it remain a pretty broad Casus belli ..and same can be the pretext for Indian or American interference in Pakistan.

As far stimulus for infighting is concerned..they don't need one ..there were no foreign stimulants in 90s.. yet the infighting remained.
Peace can prevail only when one side has the complete victory(not necessarily military) over the other.

There is no strategic depth thingy, kindly read up the statement by Gen. Kiyani who explicitly said that a stable, peaceful and friendly Afghanistan is our strategic depth, except for that there is no other strategic depth, no idea why Indians are still living in that old strategic depth misconception or may be you guys don't want to come out of it. There is nothing physically in Afghanistan that we can have our strategic depth in there, its a waste land for us with no use, no infrastructure. All we need is a friendly Afghanistan which gives no problems to us.

But with India / US & other powers involved and clear indications of support to unrest inside Pakistan coming from Afghanistan, its the right choice by Pakistan to support whatever helps gain its interest as Afghans are themselves to be blamed for letting others use them and their territory against us, thus we will retaliate even if it means supporting Taliban or whoever else.

There was civil war in 90s and foreign hands did get involved as each one supported its own faction to gain the upper hand for its own purposes.

And in Afghanistan for now or in coming future, there is no clear military or other related superior force. And how the things are going, we may see back the Taliban in control to some extend, which by the way they already are.

 

[PureAryan]

Not Pakistani land, Afghan land. Pashtuns werent even given the choice of an independent Pashtunistan during the referendum and Gaffar Khan was placed under house arrest for most parts.

A little knowledge is a dangerous thing

Pakistan is not an artificial state like bharat where 565 kingdoms were threatened and forced to join the so-called secular union of Bharat, The Indus people have been living side by side since 7000BC.

Another pathetic attempt by nalwa who gets his history from afghan forums to create enmity between pushtuns and rest of Pakistani ethnic groups, 90% pushtuns voted for Pakistan, Why would the non-pushtun population that made up 1/3 of NWFP would vote for Afghanistan, Hazaras are the 2nd biggest ethnic group are linguistically closer to Punjabis and they call themselves the natives of NWFP. Frontier at that time pre 1947 was ruled by red shirts Congress Showboys, puppets of Nehru, and followers of Gandhi. Due to his alliance with the hindu party(congress), The frontier Gandhi aka Gaffar Khan was abhorred by the religiously conservative tribal belt people and this is the reason pushtun people voted for muslim league Jinnah because they can never see themselves being ruled and manipulated by people(hindus) who were actually their slaves. Why would a pushtun vote a puppet of hindu.

The non-Pashtun populations of Afghanistan would never accept increasing the Pashtun's disproportionate hold on political power by allowing more pushtuns from Pakistan to come in, There would have been no Pakistan without pushtuns, Khybar Union were the first who would publish the first phamphlet calling for Pakistan. Mohd Aslam Khan (Khattak). President, Khyber Union. Sheikh Mohd Sadiq (Sahibzada), Inayat Ullah Khan (of Charsaddah) Secretary, Khyber Union. Sardar Abdul Rab Nishtar, Yusaf Khattak, Abdul Qayyum Khan were the most avid supporters of Pakistan movement.

If the seven sister states were given the choice they would have voted for Burma, if Kashmir, Hyderabad, Junagardh and dozens of other kingdoms (either ruled by Muslim or were Muslim majority) were given the choice they would have chose Pakistan, if south Indians were given the chance they would have remained independent or join sri lanka, and bharat would have had the size of Sri Lanka. No pushtun would have voted for independent pushtunistan since millions of them are living in sindh and Punjab, Karachi is the world’s biggest pushtun city. All your pushtuns master were actually born in Punjab.

It was Daud‘s Government of Afghanistan which vigorously pursued Pukhtunistan agenda and non recognition of Durand line, In sixties, Pakistan Foreign Office suggested that plebiscite may be simultaneously held in NWFP , FATA and Pushtun belt of Afghanistan so that Pakhtun nation should decide as a whole as to which country they prefer to join. Pakistani officer predicted that Afghanistan is sure to lose more area to Pakistan in such an eventuality. This proposal effectively deterred demand of Pakhtunistan along with ouster of Daud from office of PM in 1963. If referendum is ever held, its afgghanistan which will lose land not pakistan
He died the most horrible death which is a message to anyone which messes with Pakistan.

 

[Nalwa]

@PureAryan - Good post. Like your points.

The frontier Gandhi aka Gaffar Khan was abhorred by the religiously conservative tribal belt people and this is the reason pushtun people voted for muslim league Jinnah because they can never see themselves being ruled and manipulated by people(hindus) who were actually their slaves. Why would a pushtun vote a puppet of hindu.

However I have gathered the opposite about Gaffar Khan. Why would he be popular if no Pashtuns agreed with his ideology?

 

[BackStabber]

lol, thanks for accepting Pakistan was a part of Afganistan!

Or in his own words, Pakistan was ruled by Afghans for centuries

 

[BackStabber]

dont care...deleted

 

[BackStabber]

majority of afghans do not want india's help.

and you conducted the poll?

 

[PureAryan]

@PureAryan - Good post. Like your points.


However I have gathered the opposite about Gaffar Khan. Why would he be popular if no Pashtuns agreed with his ideology?

First of all Ghaffar Khan and his gang of Khudai Khidmatgars which numbered 100,000 boycotted the election were never popular, they don’t represent whole of pukhtunkhwa

After the british announced they would leave bharat in 1948 there was an outbreak of violence in Punjab, It was only after march 1947 riots that congress agreed to the so-called partition along religious line. Ghaffar had in mind that Nehru would never allow partition to take place but when it was decided to partition and people would decide whichever country to join either bharat or Pakistan, Ghaffar khan started his pakhtoonkhwa propaganda which was basically a country of pukhtuns.

Some bharti bigot on Wikipedia writes “In 1947 the accession of Khyber-Pakhtunkhwa to Pakistan was made possible by a slight majority of the 50.1% votes cast” to confuse people that Pakistan won the province by 0.1%. Well in this slight majority about 99% voted for Pakistan and 1% voted for bharat. A loya jirga in the Tribal Areas also garnered a similar result as most preferred to become part of Pakistan.

Khan brother were never under arrest they boycotted the election because the british were not allowing them the 3rd option of having a pukhtun state. Khan wanted a secular united bharat, if he was that popular among common people then those people would have voted for bharat not overwhelmingly for Pakistan. People of NWFP voted for Pakistan even though congress supported ministry was in power,


If I go by your logic, the chief minister of Punjab also never wanted to join pakistan and wanted to have united independent Punjab, Khan of kalat also wanted an independent Baluchistan, Ghafar also wanted independent Pukhtunkhwa. It were the people of every provinces who wanted to join Pakistan not the leaders of their provinces.

Those afghan bigots on afghan forum wont tell you this information, because they are drowned in racism, hatred and propoganda against the Pakistan, Those afghani think gaffer wanted to join Afghanistan but he instead used to make fun of them and call them poor naked people because of his colonialist mentality.

 

[ajtr]

Afghan situation disturbs Pak-wary Krishna​

New Delhi, Jan. 11: Foreign minister S.M. Krishna today termed the situation in Afghanistan “very disturbing”.

“What is happening in Afghanistan is something which is very disturbing.… The Taliban is an umbrella organisation which shelters LeT (Lashkar-e-Toiba) and other terrorist organisations,” Krishna, who was in Kabul on January 8-9, said.

What he left unsaid was that the situation in Afghanistan was set to become more difficult for India with US-led international forces scheduled to start withdrawal from mid 2011. The Taliban still control large swathes of Afghanistan.

India continues to lose ground to Pakistan in the war-torn country.​

During his meeting with President Hamid Karzai in Kabul, Krishna had voiced India’s concern over Pakistan’s growing involvement in the transition process in Afghanistan.

India wants an Afghan-driven and Afghan-owned peace process. It fears the Pakistan Army and the ISI will use Afghanistan as their sphere of influence once the international forces leave.

New Delhi has even shifted its stance on the “good Taliban” — former Taliban members now willing to sever ties with terrorist groups. Krishna today said those willing to disassociate with terror must be encouraged to participate in the peace initiative.

During his Kabul visit, Karzai had assured Krishna that his government would not make any move detrimental to India. The Afghan President had said India was “uppermost” on his government’s priorities and appreciated Delhi’s contribution to the post-war reconstruction and rebuilding efforts.

But India is faced with growing isolation in Afghanistan because regional players like Iran, Tajikistan, Russia as well as China disagree with its stand that Pakistan should be kept out of the Afghan peace process. These countries believe that while Pakistan is part of the problem in Afghanistan, it is also part of the solution.

Tajikistan and Iran have kept India out of their consultations with regional players on Afghanistan. But Pakistan is a part of these consultations.

Government sources, however, say Iran, Tajikistan and even Russia’s newfound love for Pakistan is temporary. “Apart from China, India has been the only other country that has consistently supported Iran in international forums. Also, it will be difficult for a Shia Iran to have any long-term convergence with a Sunni Pakistan,” a source said.

But India’s increasing irrelevance in Afghanistan means it will be a bystander after the scheduled withdrawal of US-led forces starts in July. South Block sources concede it is a difficult situation in Afghanistan.

They, however, cite how the US, France and the UK have complimented India’s positive role in Afghanistan. “This is in contrast to the ambivalence with which these countries viewed India’s role in Afghanistan till a year back. This change is noteworthy,” a source said.

Government sources say the Prime Minister has conveyed to all Western leaders that they would be committing a “historic blunder that we will be ruing for generations” by leaving Afghanistan without securing the social, economic and political gains achieved in the last decade.

India will continue its development work in Afghanistan. “India has civilisational and historical relations with Afghanistan for centuries and India continues to believe that it can play a very useful role in Afghanistan in terms of capacity building for which we have committed $ 1.4 billion for development of Afghanistan,” Krishna said today.

 

[roadrunner]

If the powerholder in Afghanistan want Pakistan to drive the peace process, then of course it will be Pakistan driven. If not, it won't. India doesn't really have a say in that.

 

[Marwat Khan Lodhi]

Well India has no option but to accept what we decide for Afghanistan or Afghans themselves. Its primarily the Afghans but we have a large Afghan and Pashtoon population in Pakistan, thus we become significant in the equation.

Neither India nor America are in position to decide what should be future of Afghanistan except People of Afghanistan. Afghan Taliban and ISI are very bad boys.. aren't they?

Dear Afghan and Pashtun is one and same thing. We Pashtuns of Pakistan are ethnic afghans.
Pakistan is playing very confused role in Afghanistan. Pakistan legitimize its interference in Afghanistan with stance that it has large Pashtun population but i dont think that Pakistan would allow Afghanistan to interfere in Pashtuns affairs in Khyber Pakhtunkhwa.