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Afghan Officials want to support military strike in Pakistan

khanz

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KABUL - Al-Qaida and Taliban leaders operate "outside the country."

The war on terror "should know no borders." The world should address the "root causes of terrorism - wherever they are." Afghan officials weave hints and suggestions but their meaning is becoming increasingly clear: Afghanistan would be more than happy for U.S. forces to attack Taliban and al-Qaida safe havens in Pakistan.

After the bloodiest year since the 2001 U.S.-led invasion, some analysts say the United States and NATO won't make lasting progress in Afghanistan, unless the militants' ability to command and control the insurgency from across the border is tackled.

The prospects of a U.S. military deployment inside Pakistan, a key U.S. ally in its war on terror, remain slim, because of the outrage it would trigger from the government of Pakistani President Pervez Musharraf and the wider public.

Last weekend, Pakistan said it would not let U.S. forces hunt militants on its soil after the New York Times newspaper said President George W. Bush's administration was considering expanding CIA and Special Forces operations into Pakistan's tribal regions.

But that doesn't mean Afghan officials won't lobby for military strikes anyway - a call likely to enflame already touchy relations with Pakistan just two weeks after the countries' presidents met in Pakistan and pledged to share intelligence and tighten border controls to quash militancy.

"Terrorism is like a spring. It is better to go to the main source than to fight the water's flow," said Gen. Mohammad Zahir Azimi, Afghan Defence Ministry spokesman.

The chief of Afghanistan's intelligence service, Amrullah Saleh, said recently terrorism's defeat requires either Afghanistan's borders be sealed or "the strategy of the coalition forces toward Pakistan should change."

"We believe the war on terror should know no borders," Saleh told Afghanistan's Tolo TV.

"This was the first slogan by the Americans and the U.S.-led international coalition forces. But this war has unfortunately been confined to borders."

The 2,400-kilometre Afghan-Pakistan border has long been a complicating factor in U.S. efforts in Afghanistan.

Top al-Qaida and Taliban leaders are suspected of running their operations out of tribal areas in Pakistan, where U.S. forces cannot pursue them and the region is considered a likely hiding place for accused terrorist mastermind Osama bin Laden and his top deputy, Ayman al-Zawahri.

Pakistan army and Foreign Ministry spokesmen did not respond to calls seeking comment but the government has repeatedly denied Taliban leaders orchestrate the Afghan insurgency from its soil - and U.S. intelligence reports that al-Qaida leaders have regrouped there.

Taliban militants, in fact, pose a growing threat to Pakistan's own security. Hundreds of people have died, many of them security forces, as Islamist fighters have grabbed control of tracts of Pakistan's northwestern frontier. In the last three months alone there have been 19 suicide attacks, mostly targetting the army or government.

In the highest-profile attack, Pakistan's government said it suspects the top Taliban leader in Pakistan, Baitullah Mehsud, was behind the Dec. 27 assassination of former prime minister Benazir Bhutto.

Bush's top security advisers - including Vice-President Dick Cheney and Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice - debated last week whether to expand the authority of the CIA and the military to "conduct far more aggressive covert operations in the tribal areas of Pakistan," the New York Times reported Sunday.

Humayun Hamidzada, spokesman for Afghan President Hamid Karzai, said Tuesday: "Wherever the international community carries out operations against terrorism," it would have a positive effect in Afghanistan.

"I'm not going to comment about the specifics about operations inside Pakistan. All I'm going to say is that we should address the sources, the root causes of terrorism wherever they are," Hamidzada said, hinting heavily Afghanistan believes that to be in Pakistan.

Saleh, the intelligence chief, said political pressure, financial incentives and informational exchanges with Pakistan have been ineffective. The Taliban has leadership councils in the Pakistani cities Quetta, Miranshah and Peshawar, he said.

Karzai has previously alleged Taliban supreme commander Mullah Omar hides in Quetta, which Pakistan denies.

Saleh said although the terrorist organizations are not strong enough to resist Pakistan's army, "the system in Pakistan has no political determination to eliminate these elements and forces."

Yet U.S. commanders in Afghanistan are quick to praise Pakistan's role in fighting militancy, saying Pakistani forces have killed or arrested scores of insurgents while taking heavy casualties. The Pakistan army has also improved border co-ordination and communication with Afghan and NATO officials, U.S. officials said.

But Seth Jones, a Washington-based analyst with the RAND Corp. who follows Afghanistan, said that is not enough.

"If in 2008 the U.S., NATO in general, is unable to make any notable differences in the (Pakistani) tribal areas, the situation in Afghanistan will not get better," he said, suggesting Pakistani government or tribal forces could root out militants.

"That would be a multiyear effort to clear and hold those regions," he said.

"I'm not saying it's going to happen but it's one key factor that will influence the next year."

http://canadianpress.google.com/arti...dN91sRbV7YxMwA

:angry:
 
The chief of Afghanistan's intelligence service, Amrullah Saleh, said recently terrorism's defeat requires either Afghanistan's borders be sealed or "the strategy of the coalition forces toward Pakistan should change."

Pakistan has argued in favor of fencing and mining, it is the Afghans who have resisted (even the biometric ID's) so maybe they should adjust their own attitudes and not speak with a forked tongue - but then, what else would you expect from an administration dominated by warlords.
"That would be a multiyear effort to clear and hold those regions," he said.
The resources and men required for an effort like that (if needed) I do not think will be available on the Pakistan side until there is a comprehensive peace with India.

On the Afghan side, not until some of the NATO countries grow a pair and promise more troops, or the US gets out of Iraq and dedicates more of its own.
 
I think she should fence and mine the border regardless of what afghanistan says as long as it's on our side it's our decision.
Iran only lets afghans see them through a barb wire fence and deports them regularly which is why they have none of pakistan's problems despite being a shia country and sharing a massive border with them too we should take note of that and also close our doors to them out completely .
 
Somehow our governments have always lacked the courage, the bold step that is needed for occasions like these. And this is the reason why today even countires like afghanistan with a government nothing more then a mayor of Kabul is dictating terms to us. If only we could rise to the occasion and throw all afghanis back to the hole they came from, mine and fence the border completely and take the liberty of bombing places in afghanistan used against pakistan right under the watch ful eye of the US, we wouldnt be hearing statements like these.
 
IC:

You are making the same argument someone on the Afghan side is probably making when they talk of bombing Pakistan. The two countries need to get off the blame game and understand the domestic compulsions and restrictions in place on either side, and work on efforts like Biometric ID's (which for some odd reason the Afghans have thrown a hissy fit about) to better monitor the flow of people between the two borders. The Afghans also need to give up this dream of annexing Pakistani territory - then they might not have so much opposition to the border control and security plans suggested by Pakistan.

Perhaps the US could indicate its good intentions by goading the Afghan administration in the right direction as well. Heavens knows they don't mind "interference in a sovereign nations affairs" when it comes to supporting political parties, Leaders and policies in Pakistan. Just a little of that on the Afghan side could work wonders in terms of boosting confidence between the two countires if the Afghan rhetoric is toned down.

Pakistan and Afghanistan are always going to be linked - trade between the two countries, and through the two countries, is going to skyrocket once peace comes about. It is in the interest of all to get together and work for peace.
 
Somehow our governments have always lacked the courage, the bold step that is needed for occasions like these. And this is the reason why today even countires like afghanistan with a government nothing more then a mayor of Kabul is dictating terms to us. If only we could rise to the occasion and throw all afghanis back to the hole they came from, mine and fence the border completely and take the liberty of bombing places in afghanistan used against pakistan right under the watch ful eye of the US, we wouldnt be hearing statements like these.

totally agree look at turkey even being an ally of the U.S they bombed kurdish rebel places in iraq despite being told not to because they put their own security first why don't we do the same if theres militants coming in from afghanistan ???
or maybe we should scare them and have paf fighters buzz around karzai's place like the israelis did in syria lol just to give em a message :pop:
 
Somehow our governments have always lacked the courage, the bold step that is needed for occasions like these. And this is the reason why today even countires like afghanistan with a government nothing more then a mayor of Kabul is dictating terms to us. If only we could rise to the occasion and throw all afghanis back to the hole they came from, mine and fence the border completely and take the liberty of bombing places in afghanistan used against pakistan right under the watch ful eye of the US, we wouldnt be hearing statements like these.

Somehow you've contradicted yourself here. On the one hand you've mentioned that a "Mayor of Kabul" is dictating these terms to Pakistan suggesting he hardly has popular support from the Afghani populous. On the other you've stated you wish to punish the very same populous that support your viewpoint and are against the very same "Mayor of Kabul" :cheesy:

It is wise not to punish the population that supports your own viewpoint, but to support them so that they carry on isolating the "Mayor of Kabul".
 
Somehow our governments have always lacked the courage, the bold step that is needed for occasions like these. And this is the reason why today even countires like afghanistan with a government nothing more then a mayor of Kabul is dictating terms to us. If only we could rise to the occasion and throw all afghanis back to the hole they came from, mine and fence the border completely and take the liberty of bombing places in afghanistan used against pakistan right under the watch ful eye of the US, we wouldnt be hearing statements like these.

This may not appeal to you, but ethnicity does play a great emotional part of one's existence.

Mujibur Rehman, who was Surawardy's right hand, played a major role in the Calcutta killing before Independence. And yet, when this very same man, addressed a public rally in Calcutta, after being released from a Pakistani prison, drew a crowd larger than Indira Gandhi, Bulganin (West Bengal is ruled by Commies!) and even Queen Elizabeth when they visited/ addressed Bengalis in Calcutta and West Bengal.

Imagine this huge gathering of Hindu majority Bengalis in context of the fact that Mujibur was responsible for killing Hindus and others and he was addressing a Hindu majority rally! I heard his speech on the radio and let me tell, it stirred me too, even though I was technically not concerned!

Therefore, sending Afghans back to their hole may not find great sympathy amongst the Pashtun population on the Pakistani side of the Durand Line!

Musharraf and his actions should not be underestimated.

Musharraf maybe a military man (giving way to the popular notion that they know nothing beyond the military held by civilians), but the man surely knows his onions. Or else he could not have survived in all the problems that besotted him!
 
I did a search on Amarullah Saleh, came up with this interesting article.

"The Northern Alliance included no significant Pashtun involvement,
and was basically regarded by the Pashtun population (42 percent of
Afghanistan) as a foreign entity. That the coalition whisked first Abdul
Haq and then Hamid Karzai, prominent Pashtuns, to the fore of the fight
against the Taliban after 9/11 showed the realization by the coalition that
no one but a Pashtun could eventually rule Afghanistan. Haq was
captured on October 25, 2001 by the Taliban and tortured to death; and, of
course, Karzai went on to assume the presidency. To this day Karzai’s
cabinet and government still contains many former Northern Alliance
fighters.4"

4 Such as the Tajik Amrullah Saleh, now head of the National Security Directorate


http://www.silkroadstudies.org/new/docs/CEF/Quarterly/May_2007/Johnson.pdf

From 2007 it seems it's still the Northern Alliance pulling the strings of the puppet.
 
I did a search on Amarullah Saleh, came up with this interesting article.

"The Northern Alliance included no significant Pashtun involvement,
and was basically regarded by the Pashtun population (42 percent of
Afghanistan) as a foreign entity. That the coalition whisked first Abdul
Haq and then Hamid Karzai, prominent Pashtuns, to the fore of the fight
against the Taliban after 9/11 showed the realization by the coalition that
no one but a Pashtun could eventually rule Afghanistan. Haq was
captured on October 25, 2001 by the Taliban and tortured to death; and, of
course, Karzai went on to assume the presidency. To this day Karzai’s
cabinet and government still contains many former Northern Alliance
fighters.4"

4 Such as the Tajik Amrullah Saleh, now head of the National Security Directorate


http://www.silkroadstudies.org/new/docs/CEF/Quarterly/May_2007/Johnson.pdf

From 2007 it seems it's still the Northern Alliance pulling the strings of the puppet.

u can be sure of one thing whether it's pashtuns or the northern alliance afghans in general hate pakistan all the destabalising elements that are causing trouble in pak are based in afghanistan with their full knowledge and permission.
 
u can be sure of one thing whether it's pashtuns or the northern alliance afghans in general hate pakistan all the destabalising elements that are causing trouble in pak are based in afghanistan with their full knowledge and permission.

You too have contradicted yourself kiddie. "Whether it's Pashtuns or Northern Alliance, Afghans in general hate Pakistan" :cheesy: If it's Pashtuns that hate Pakistan, but not the Northern Alliance, then it's not Afghans in general now, is it? DUH Unless you can substantiate your claim that the average Afghani in general hates Pakistan aside from games you kiddies play on forums, or in real life when you get all hot and flustered that your fellow zit squeezing school mate doesn't speak with you on the basis you speak Urdu or some other childish little constipated notion that leaks out your secondary orifice, then there's little point in discussing this.... I cannot claim to know what Afghanis in Afghanistan feel since I am not there, and you cannot claim to know what Afghanis in Afghanistan feel since you are not there either.

But I can assure you of one thing, Salim is correct that NWFP Pashtuns do not hate Afghani Pashtuns. The differences that exist are mainly just in nationality, but there are some tribal differences. On average there isn't a huge difference though. If this is difficult to swallow for you, then tough. Go back to your kiddie friends, and argue it out with them. Unless you have more substantive evidence, of the feelings of a nation or ethnic group of people, this discussion might as well stop, since it's getting circular.
 
IC:
The Afghans also need to give up this dream of annexing Pakistani territory - then they might not have so much opposition to the border control and security plans suggested by Pakistan.
This pretty much applies to all the countries in the region. And comprehensive peace will never be achieved unless everyone endorses this policy.
 
This pretty much applies to all the countries in the region. And comprehensive peace will never be achieved unless everyone endorses this policy.

AFAIK, Pakistan has not exhibited any aspirations to annexing Afghan, Iranian or Indian territory. Pakistan has offered several potential "out of the box" solutions to the Kashmir dispute, and most neutral analysts will admit that support from Pakistan to the insurgency in Kashmir has pretty much dried up, in a an attempt to move on some of the proposals presented and arrive at a comprehensive peace.

At this point I would argue that the Afghan Govt. is responsible for vitiating the atmosphere between the two countries.
 
AFAIK, Pakistan has not exhibited any aspirations to annexing Afghan, Iranian or Indian territory. Pakistan has offered several potential "out of the box" solutions to the Kashmir dispute, and most neutral analysts will admit that support from Pakistan to the insurgency in Kashmir has pretty much dried up, in a an attempt to move on some of the proposals presented and arrive at a comprehensive peace.

At this point I would argue that the Afghan Govt. is responsible for vitiating the atmosphere between the two countries.
All the countries in the subcontinent first and foremost need to accept the borders and improve the conditions within their own nations before even thinking about taking on any more area. The problem is that the European concept of Nation-states was imposed upon these countries rather suddenly and the resultant mess has persisted for decades.

The Kashmir issue certainly seems to be headed in the right direction and will hopefully succeed. I think it will take at least a couple of decades worth of stability, upliftment, integration and improvement before the borders can be thrown open. But hopefully it will get there.

The border situation between Pakistan and Afghanistan on the other hand is going to be more difficult to resolve primarily because the tribes in these regions don't recognize or even care about international borders between nation states. I don't know how this matter can be resolved in a realistic manner.
 
Somehow you've contradicted yourself here. On the one hand you've mentioned that a "Mayor of Kabul" is dictating these terms to Pakistan suggesting he hardly has popular support from the Afghani populous. On the other you've stated you wish to punish the very same populous that support your viewpoint and are against the very same "Mayor of Kabul" :cheesy:

It is wise not to punish the population that supports your own viewpoint, but to support them so that they carry on isolating the "Mayor of Kabul".

He's a mayor of kabul because he can only just sit there and rant, nothing else is in his power instead of his masters who tell him what to do next and who run afghanistan. As for the afghans, they are unthankful selfish nogood bastards. All they gifted us was with a wreck economy, suecide bombing and claming peshwar as their own. Besides i never mentioned punishing anyone, i said to bomb places that are used against pakistan from within afghanistan. I would like to draw your attention towards the action taken by turkey.
 
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