What's new

Afghan Army to be reshaped on Indian Army model: US

they've proved it in Past by banging 5 time bigger enemy
No, 1965 .... technology wise, Paf fighter planes was better then if and that's the reason Paf performed little better then iaf.
Now technology edge with iaf. Paf was having Air to air missile but iaf didn't.
 
.
Interoperability is fine if India plans to deploy forward advisers.

The US model provides too much freedom to low ranking officers than the Afghans would be used too and focus on combined integrated arms.

Why Is the American Military So Bad at Teaching Others How to Fight?
The task goes far beyond what U.S. soldiers are trained to teach.

By Fred Kaplan


151019_POL_Afghan-National-Army.jpg.CROP.promo-xlarge2.jpg

A soldier in the Afghan National Army walks through a poppy field during a joint patrol with the U.S. Army on April 5, 2013 in Afghanistan.
When the invasion of Iraq triggered an insurgency, a civil war, and the collapse of social order, Colin Powell coined the “Pottery Barn rule” about military intervention: “You break it, you own it.” In the wake of President Obama’s Oct. 15 announcement that 5,500 U.S. troops will stay in Afghanistan through the end of his term, I hereby proclaim the “Hotel California rule,” after the last line of the Eagles song: “You can check out anytime you like, but you can never leave.”

Obama’s decision—a reversal of an earlier plan to pull out entirely from Afghanistan by the end of his presidency—was made well before the Taliban’s assault on the northern town of Kunduz, which raised doubts about the Afghan army’s ability to defend the country by itself.

enior administration officials say that, back in March, Obama ordered the Pentagon to conduct a review of how many U.S. troops would be needed to sustain counterterrorism operations in the region. The answer turned out to be 5,500, spread out on three bases (in Kabul, Bagram, and Kandahar), a calculation that Obama endorsed before the Taliban seizure of Kunduz, though that attack (and the Afghan army’s eventual retaking of the town, with U.S. assistance) sealed the deal.

Three factors shaped the decision. First, in September 2014, one day after he was sworn into office, Afghanistan’s new president, Mohammad Ashraf Ghani, signed a “bilateral security agreement” permitting U.S. and NATO forces to remain in his country after the international combat mission expired at the end of that year. (Ghani’s predecessor, Hamid Karzai, had refused to sign the agreement.) On a subsequent trip to Washington in March, Ghani asked Obama to keep the troops there for longer still and promised to form a more inclusive, less corrupt government in Kabul.

Second, with Ghani’s assurances in mind, Obama ordered the Pentagon review on the U.S. military presence, asking those conducting it to look at Afghanistan not so much as this country where we’d been fighting a war for 13 years but, more, as one of several partners in a global counterterrorism strategy—in this case, against the Taliban, al-Qaida remnants, and ISIS jihadists who had begun to pop up in the area.

Once any foreign military commitment is made, it doesn’t take much to get troop levels up to 5,000 or so. An officer in the Pentagon, with experience in special-operations forces, calculates that a couple thousand are needed for counterterrorism operations, a couple thousand to continue training and advising the Afghan army, a thousand to staff a headquarters, and close to a thousand for “force protection”—that is, for armed forces whose job is to defend the other U.S. military personnel.

The third factor, which does hang over the now-almost-14-year-old war in Afghanistan (and which plays a big part in the “Hotel California rule”), is that the American military is not very good at training indigenous armies in countries facing threats from within and without. (See also South Vietnam and Iraq, among others.)

Military training is more complicated than many realize. True, the Taliban, al-Qaida, and ISIS don’t require advanced training for its recruits, so, it’s often asked, why should the Afghan or Iraqi army? But the two tasks are different. Insurgents can attack at a time and place of their choosing; if met with force, they can withdraw and attack someplace else. By contrast, armies defending the government have to be strong and ready everywhere, or they need to have the means to move quickly from one place to another.

So training is not just a matter of teaching soldiers how to shoot straight and maneuver on a battlefield (which American trainers do well). If the goal is to turn the fighting completely over to the local armed forces, then training must also involve teaching them how to conduct and call in air strikes, gather intelligence and apply it to tactical operations, move soldiers rapidly from one area to another (which involves flying helicopters or small transport planes), resupply soldiers when they’re deployed far from the base (logistics), and plan operations on a strategic or theater-wide level.

To do all these things goes well beyond the abilities of American infantry or special-operations forces assigned to a training mission. In other words, the way we currently train, it may never be possible to make our client-armies completely self-reliant.

John Nagl, a retired U.S. Army lieutenant colonel, has long called for the creation of a special advisory corps—units whose sole task would be to advise, train, and assist foreign military forces. These advisers would come to a war zone not only with combat skills but also with fluency in the local language and culture. They would help the local senior officers set up and operate a headquarters. They would help senior officials do the same in the ministry of defense. And, as Nagl envisions it, they would not only train troops on a base but also embed with small units of these troops on the battlefield.

The Taliban, al-Qaida, and ISIS don’t require advanced training for its recruits, so why should the Afghan or Iraqi army?

Nagl’s idea never found favor among his military or political superiors when he first pushed it 10 to 15 years ago. The generals were opposed because they didn’t want to divert good soldiers from traditional combat missions, especially with the Army’s ranks already shrinking. Some politicians paid lip service to the idea, but ultimately they acceded to the brass—and those who looked more closely were uncomfortable with the fine print. The idea of embedding American advisers with local troops evoked grim memories of Vietnam—and Nagl was acknowledging explicitly that, in the sorts of unstable countries where these advisers were likely to be deployed, they would have to stay embedded and advising for a long, long time.

Few American politicians, officers, or ordinary citizens have any appetite for embedding the current teams of American advisers alongside Afghan troops (or Iraqi troops or Syrian rebels) in combat, and for very good reason. But Nagl may have a point: It’s very difficult—it might be nearly impossible—for the local troops to win, if the advising and assisting stops halfway.

Then again, there are other reasons for the failure of training, and they have little to do with the lack of a specialized American advisory corps. In several of the insurgency wars we’ve joined in the past several decades, the local elites—who sign on to be our allies—are corrupt or incompetent at running their countries. The local soldiers feel little loyalty to their commanders or their leaders, while the insurgent rebels are very energized by their cause. No matter how well Americans—or any outsiders—might train and advise such soldiers, they are unlikely to win because they have no desire to risk dying while fighting.

This was certainly the case when Iraqi soldiers—trained by America’s finest at a cost of billions—fled after the first gunshot when attacked by ISIS marauders in Mosul. In the same sense, the fate of the Afghan National Army will depend less on the thoroughness of American training than on the degree to which President Ghani cleans up Karzai’s corruption. Back in late 2009, when President Obama sent more troops to fight in Afghanistan, the senior U.S. officers—including Adm. Mike Mullen, then the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, Gen. David Petraeus, who was commander at the time—testified that, if the corruption persisted, the Taliban would win, no matter how many American troops joined the fight. The same is true now.

For all these reasons, President Obama has been leery of military adventures. He sent more troops to Afghanistan, giving his commanders a chance to try out a new war strategy; when it didn’t work as quickly as they said it would, he withdrew the troops and ended the combat mission. He has decided to keep 5,500 trainers, advisers, and counterterrorism forces in Afghanistan for longer than he’d originally expected because the new Afghan president wants them there, signed a treaty to keep them there, and committed to run an inclusive government—and because the Afghan army isn’t ready to go it alone. The premise is to leave it up to the next American president to decide whether the commitment is still worth the effort. But there should be no illusions on one point: The Afghan army won’t be ready to go it alone for a long time and the United States isn’t prepared to make it otherwise.

http://www.slate.com/articles/news_...y_is_bad_at_teaching_others_how_to_fight.html
 
.
No, 1965 .... technology wise, Paf fighter planes was better then if and that's the reason Paf performed little better then iaf.
Now technology edge with iaf. Paf was having Air to air missile but iaf didn't.
The one and only time the IAF managed to deliver was during Kargil conflict....only because it was conducting operations within it's own side of LOC....in a limited well known area and without any opposition.
 
.
No, 1965 .... technology wise, Paf fighter planes was better then if and that's the reason Paf performed little better then iaf.
Now technology edge with iaf. Paf was having Air to air missile but iaf didn't.
is that a joke?
 
.
So basically what the news clipping is trying to say is that local militias will be created to hold off the local community --- personally i think it will be disastrous -- they will be more prone to Taliban influence, or influence of the local Lord -- heading back to the situation where it all began in 80s ----
 
.
This news have both good and bad............
Bad are very few , Afghans are already our enemy , we never had any significant influence in Afghanistan before the whole War started(I mean before Russian Invasion). So presence of India wont change much , It is actually going back in time (before Russian Invasion). Only problem for us is our both borders going to hot .
Now it contains many good things,,,,,,,,,, USA playing great here , In hate of Pakistan , Indians are getting to much involved in Afghanistan , That will take them away from Russia which have Her on Interest to watch in New Game of Afghanistan. Same rule apply on China.
More Indians or there influence in Afghanistan is going to harm them, more politically , financially and militarily involved India in Afghanistan more problem She creates for her self. In long run it will bring more benefits for Pakistan......... So I guess USA is indirectly Helping Pakistan........
We only have to do few things like , Fence the border and Mine it, Have proper border management and protection system like Posts , etc. Send all Afghanis Refuges back to Afghanistan , Enough is enough , and crackdown on all sympathisers of Afghanis in Pakistan. Upgrade our FC in KPK and Baluchistan......
 
Last edited:
. .
Oh $hit... open defaecation ...

Only for Indian instructors. As is the current custom, the ANA will carry their port-a-potties with them. Don't worry about going walk-about.
Expensive!

So they want a low grade, cheap model to copy

Think this one through: isn't it better than a high-grade failure?
 
.
is that a joke?

:-) I think, you started.

The one and only time the IAF managed to deliver was during Kargil conflict....only because it was conducting operations within it's own side of LOC....in a limited well known area and without any opposition.
You missed 1971 and Siachen Glacier war.
Ok, come on topic please. Thank you
 
.
U mean be prepared to be losers like indian army,dear lord!

Yes.

And it's fun to watch people running down the Indian Army, with elaborate explanations about why that is not a good model.
PAKISTANI AIR FORCE is the best in the whole South Asia!

NO!

YOU'RE WRONG!!

THEY'RE THE BEST IN THE WORLD!!!
 
.
Opposing US explicitly will hurt Pakistan more. By stopping all communication and visits to and from US after Trump's South Asia policy, you have are already started pushing US towards India more. What you are advocating now will increase India's influence more in Afghanistan and not less.

Some things are just beyond one's control. If the so called ally continues to pave way for India in Afghanistan and continues to provide high tech weapons to India, then I guess we too need to find a way to arm US's enemies, openly!
 
.
Interoperability is fine if India plans to deploy forward advisers.

The US model provides too much freedom to low ranking officers than the Afghans would be used too and focus on combined integrated arms.

Why Is the American Military So Bad at Teaching Others How to Fight?
The task goes far beyond what U.S. soldiers are trained to teach.

By Fred Kaplan


151019_POL_Afghan-National-Army.jpg.CROP.promo-xlarge2.jpg

A soldier in the Afghan National Army walks through a poppy field during a joint patrol with the U.S. Army on April 5, 2013 in Afghanistan.
When the invasion of Iraq triggered an insurgency, a civil war, and the collapse of social order, Colin Powell coined the “Pottery Barn rule” about military intervention: “You break it, you own it.” In the wake of President Obama’s Oct. 15 announcement that 5,500 U.S. troops will stay in Afghanistan through the end of his term, I hereby proclaim the “Hotel California rule,” after the last line of the Eagles song: “You can check out anytime you like, but you can never leave.”

Obama’s decision—a reversal of an earlier plan to pull out entirely from Afghanistan by the end of his presidency—was made well before the Taliban’s assault on the northern town of Kunduz, which raised doubts about the Afghan army’s ability to defend the country by itself.

enior administration officials say that, back in March, Obama ordered the Pentagon to conduct a review of how many U.S. troops would be needed to sustain counterterrorism operations in the region. The answer turned out to be 5,500, spread out on three bases (in Kabul, Bagram, and Kandahar), a calculation that Obama endorsed before the Taliban seizure of Kunduz, though that attack (and the Afghan army’s eventual retaking of the town, with U.S. assistance) sealed the deal.

Three factors shaped the decision. First, in September 2014, one day after he was sworn into office, Afghanistan’s new president, Mohammad Ashraf Ghani, signed a “bilateral security agreement” permitting U.S. and NATO forces to remain in his country after the international combat mission expired at the end of that year. (Ghani’s predecessor, Hamid Karzai, had refused to sign the agreement.) On a subsequent trip to Washington in March, Ghani asked Obama to keep the troops there for longer still and promised to form a more inclusive, less corrupt government in Kabul.

Second, with Ghani’s assurances in mind, Obama ordered the Pentagon review on the U.S. military presence, asking those conducting it to look at Afghanistan not so much as this country where we’d been fighting a war for 13 years but, more, as one of several partners in a global counterterrorism strategy—in this case, against the Taliban, al-Qaida remnants, and ISIS jihadists who had begun to pop up in the area.

Once any foreign military commitment is made, it doesn’t take much to get troop levels up to 5,000 or so. An officer in the Pentagon, with experience in special-operations forces, calculates that a couple thousand are needed for counterterrorism operations, a couple thousand to continue training and advising the Afghan army, a thousand to staff a headquarters, and close to a thousand for “force protection”—that is, for armed forces whose job is to defend the other U.S. military personnel.

The third factor, which does hang over the now-almost-14-year-old war in Afghanistan (and which plays a big part in the “Hotel California rule”), is that the American military is not very good at training indigenous armies in countries facing threats from within and without. (See also South Vietnam and Iraq, among others.)

Military training is more complicated than many realize. True, the Taliban, al-Qaida, and ISIS don’t require advanced training for its recruits, so, it’s often asked, why should the Afghan or Iraqi army? But the two tasks are different. Insurgents can attack at a time and place of their choosing; if met with force, they can withdraw and attack someplace else. By contrast, armies defending the government have to be strong and ready everywhere, or they need to have the means to move quickly from one place to another.

So training is not just a matter of teaching soldiers how to shoot straight and maneuver on a battlefield (which American trainers do well). If the goal is to turn the fighting completely over to the local armed forces, then training must also involve teaching them how to conduct and call in air strikes, gather intelligence and apply it to tactical operations, move soldiers rapidly from one area to another (which involves flying helicopters or small transport planes), resupply soldiers when they’re deployed far from the base (logistics), and plan operations on a strategic or theater-wide level.

To do all these things goes well beyond the abilities of American infantry or special-operations forces assigned to a training mission. In other words, the way we currently train, it may never be possible to make our client-armies completely self-reliant.

John Nagl, a retired U.S. Army lieutenant colonel, has long called for the creation of a special advisory corps—units whose sole task would be to advise, train, and assist foreign military forces. These advisers would come to a war zone not only with combat skills but also with fluency in the local language and culture. They would help the local senior officers set up and operate a headquarters. They would help senior officials do the same in the ministry of defense. And, as Nagl envisions it, they would not only train troops on a base but also embed with small units of these troops on the battlefield.

The Taliban, al-Qaida, and ISIS don’t require advanced training for its recruits, so why should the Afghan or Iraqi army?

Nagl’s idea never found favor among his military or political superiors when he first pushed it 10 to 15 years ago. The generals were opposed because they didn’t want to divert good soldiers from traditional combat missions, especially with the Army’s ranks already shrinking. Some politicians paid lip service to the idea, but ultimately they acceded to the brass—and those who looked more closely were uncomfortable with the fine print. The idea of embedding American advisers with local troops evoked grim memories of Vietnam—and Nagl was acknowledging explicitly that, in the sorts of unstable countries where these advisers were likely to be deployed, they would have to stay embedded and advising for a long, long time.

Few American politicians, officers, or ordinary citizens have any appetite for embedding the current teams of American advisers alongside Afghan troops (or Iraqi troops or Syrian rebels) in combat, and for very good reason. But Nagl may have a point: It’s very difficult—it might be nearly impossible—for the local troops to win, if the advising and assisting stops halfway.

Then again, there are other reasons for the failure of training, and they have little to do with the lack of a specialized American advisory corps. In several of the insurgency wars we’ve joined in the past several decades, the local elites—who sign on to be our allies—are corrupt or incompetent at running their countries. The local soldiers feel little loyalty to their commanders or their leaders, while the insurgent rebels are very energized by their cause. No matter how well Americans—or any outsiders—might train and advise such soldiers, they are unlikely to win because they have no desire to risk dying while fighting.

This was certainly the case when Iraqi soldiers—trained by America’s finest at a cost of billions—fled after the first gunshot when attacked by ISIS marauders in Mosul. In the same sense, the fate of the Afghan National Army will depend less on the thoroughness of American training than on the degree to which President Ghani cleans up Karzai’s corruption. Back in late 2009, when President Obama sent more troops to fight in Afghanistan, the senior U.S. officers—including Adm. Mike Mullen, then the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, Gen. David Petraeus, who was commander at the time—testified that, if the corruption persisted, the Taliban would win, no matter how many American troops joined the fight. The same is true now.

For all these reasons, President Obama has been leery of military adventures. He sent more troops to Afghanistan, giving his commanders a chance to try out a new war strategy; when it didn’t work as quickly as they said it would, he withdrew the troops and ended the combat mission. He has decided to keep 5,500 trainers, advisers, and counterterrorism forces in Afghanistan for longer than he’d originally expected because the new Afghan president wants them there, signed a treaty to keep them there, and committed to run an inclusive government—and because the Afghan army isn’t ready to go it alone. The premise is to leave it up to the next American president to decide whether the commitment is still worth the effort. But there should be no illusions on one point: The Afghan army won’t be ready to go it alone for a long time and the United States isn’t prepared to make it otherwise.

http://www.slate.com/articles/news_...y_is_bad_at_teaching_others_how_to_fight.html

Really this post deserves a separate thread. It attempts to ask and answer the most important set of questions that pose us today:

1. Why can the ANA not fight?
2. Yes, they take great selfies in pink uniforms and with western sunshades
3. But why can they not defeat the illiterate and barbaric Taliban?

If we can half decent answers to this question -- we'll win the war.

I suspect everyone knows that they can't see the emperor with any clothes -- clearly it must by a fault of their eyes -- right ?
 
. .
If the Indian, basically the British Indian, model is that good , shouldn't have the British Raj won in the Afgan campaigns????

This news have both good and bad............
Bad are very few , Afghans are already our enemy , we never had any significant influence in Afghanistan before the whole War started(I mean before Russian Invasion). So presence of India wont change much , It is actually going back in time (before Russian Invasion). Only problem for us is our both borders going to hot .
Now it contains many good things,,,,,,,,,, USA playing great here , In hate of Pakistan , Indians are getting to much involved in Afghanistan , That will take them away from Russia which have Her on Interest to watch in New Game of Afghanistan. Same rule apply on China.
More Indians or there influence in Afghanistan is going to harm them, more politically , financially and militarily involved India in Afghanistan more problem She creates for her self. In long run it will bring more benefits for Pakistan......... So I guess USA is indirectly Helping Pakistan........
We only have to do few things like , Fence the border and Mine it, Have proper border management and protection system like Posts , etc. Send all Afghanis Refuges back to Afghanistan , Enough is enough , and crackdown on all sympathisers of Afghanis in Pakistan. Upgrade our FC in KPK and Baluchistan......
Too many great points...Tebrikler...
 
.
Some things are just beyond one's control. If the so called ally continues to pave way for India in Afghanistan and continues to provide high tech weapons to India, then I guess we too need to find a way to arm US's enemies, openly!

You already support Afghan Taliban.
 
.

Latest posts

Pakistan Affairs Latest Posts

Back
Top Bottom