Af-Pak - Destined For Conflict

[Post Colonnial]

Our only desire is to rid Afghanistan of US and Indian influence. Period.

Pakistan's dumb strategy is why US has to be involved in that region in the first place. Pakistan has used the tactic of prolonging terror as a means of making money. If Pakistan learns to live within its means and borders US or India or Afghanistan or anyone else will not be bothering you

 

[Indus Pakistan]

British and Russian officials demarcating the Ridgeway Line on the northern boundary of Afghanistan.

http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/war/penjdeh-incident.htm
http://thediplomat.com/2015/04/how-the-british-and-the-russians-drew-the-afghan-turkmen-border/


Panjdeh Incident - Look at the amount of land lost to Russia.

 

[Shapur]

(i) How is the Ridgway Line (Northern boundary of Afghanistan) any differant from Durand Line?
(ii) Why have not made any attempt to take back Panjdeh strip from Turkmenistan despite that land being forecefully taken off you by Russians?

I know this question wasn't addressed to me but let me be frank here. The northern boundry doesn't matter because Pashtuns of Afghanistan don't give a damn about it as there are no Pashtuns living beyond Oxus river.

 

[spinghar renacido]

............

does not matter what Sir George saw and reported. i am expecting talks with in legal frame works. one can easily say all those member of jirgas were paid previous british malik and political agents picked by jinnah who wanted the status quo intact, because it benefited them. there was no central authority in FATA and no one can decide it's future. hence the accession unilateral and controversial.
even this is against the nature of pashtun, the tribal pashtun never submitter to any one authority, they did not submitted to ahmad shah or other barakzai or durrani king neither agreed on any one authoirty in their own tribe. the only person which had some kind of authority in Waziristan was Faqir IPI who fought against british and had thousand number of follower and armed militia, but he did not submitted to pakistan and called his land independent pashtunistan. this is one the record. if he was a part of the jirga then the accession will hold any water
by your yard stick Afghanistan can claim KP, since ANP slogan is of pashtunistan and loy afghanistan and they have a big chunk of followers and made governmnet in KP previously,

 

[Indus Pakistan]

I know this question wasn't addressed to me but let me be frank here. The northern boundry doesn't matter because Pashtuns of Afghanistan don't give a damn about it as there are no Pashtuns living beyond Oxus river.

Well at least your honest about that. Appreciate that. Nothing wrong with what you said. It all boils down to having ambition and dream about something but in 2017 we have to live within what is possible given the reality on the ground.

*And nothing is going to change Shapur. The fact is Tajiks, Uzbeks of Afghanistan are not to keen on creating a Pan-Pashtun state given that if say K-PK and part of Balochistan was integrated into Afghanistan they would become a even smaller minority inside Afghanistan.

You think this guy would want his group/people relegated to oblivion?

 

[spinghar renacido]

While there is no such law but there are legal principles. They call them precedents. One case can be used as benchmark or referance to others. You can't sing one song here and another there - wherever it suits you.

you do accept there is no such law. period. there is no such term as legal principal which should be obliged. period
One case can be used as benchmark or reference to others.
yes if you want, no if you don't. countries don't have the same policies to all other countries. america have a different benchmark toward india, pakistan and afghanistan. no need to drag it more

 

[Shapur]

Well at least your honest about that. Appreciate that. Nothing wrong with what you said. It all boils down to having ambition and dream about something but in 2017 we have to live within what is possible given the reality on the ground.

Agreed, there has to be fresh approach to resolve this issue but I think Afghanistan doesn't have sincere rulers who want to resolve this issue and just use it for political reasons. ANP and other parties in Pakistan do the same.
Plus, because Pakistan is stronger than Afghanistan, Pakistan doesn't feel the need to resolve the issue through diplomatic means as Afghanistan can't do anything about it. On the other hand Pakistan has to negotiate with India about Kashmir because India is not weak as Afghanistan.

 

[spinghar renacido]

Looking at the size,your economic position,emilitary,economic or political capability and overall dependency on Pakistan... You are our child and when a child misbehaves .. The parents first try to calm him down politely but continuous acts force the parents to punish the child...

In the end of you don't change your attitude .. It will be punishment..

As they say.. Don't teach your father how to f...

look at you, baloch take that punishment on daily basis. lol
since your land is carved out of our land. which implies you are our child and we your father. this is simple analogy, look who is your father. don't go stupid with me or i have enough ingredients to boils the spoiled one. lul

 

[Asfandyar Bhittani]

does not matter what Sir George saw and reported. i am expecting talks with in legal frame works. one can easily say all those member of jirgas were paid previous british malik and political agents picked by jinnah who wanted the status quo intact, because it benefited them. there was no central authority in FATA and no one can decide it's future. hence the accession unilateral and controversial.
even this is against the nature of pashtun, the tribal pashtun never submitter to any one authority, they did not submitted to ahmad shah or other barakzai or durrani king neither agreed on any one authoirty in their own tribe. the only person which had some kind of authority in Waziristan was Faqir IPI who fought against british and had thousand number of follower and armed militia, but he did not submitted to pakistan and called his land independent pashtunistan. this is one the record. if he was a part of the jirga then the accession will hold any water
by your yard stick Afghanistan can claim KP, since ANP slogan is of pashtunistan and loy afghanistan and they have a big chunk of followers and made governmnet in KP previously,

As i said previously its irrelevant what Afghans think, majority of the votes went to Pakistan from NWFP + Majority if not all jirgas decided to join Pakistan. You can claim Pashtuns were paid of but you have no proof. There was no central authority but the only authorities were tribal jirgas who joined Pakistan.

Second you called the accession "unilateral" but the agreement was signed with tribal & Pakistan how is that Unilateral?. & if you mean it didnt include Afghanistan. There was no reason to. They had already signed Durand Line agreement.

& ANP's slogan is loy Afghanistan(secession)? Who do you think you are fooling? I am obliviously arguing with a troll. And Pashtunistan is now many Pakistani Nationalists slogan too. Merging Afghanistan ~14million pashtun areas to pakistan where 30+ million Pakistani pashtuns live.

 

[spinghar renacido]

Frontier itself means a line or border separating 2 states.

the meaning from colonial era. it was easy for her majesty to call it border, but she can't because it's not

 

[Indus Pakistan]

If Afghanistan cracked up along ethnic lines and a Afghanistan emerged that was shorn of it;s non Pastun ethnic groups - then with a ethnic based homogenous Afghanistan just representing Pashtun interests might pose a challange to K-Pk to join it on basis of fraternal ethnic links but right now Afghanistan is NOT a Pashtun state but a multi-ethnic marriage just like Pakistan is.

Therefore how can a multi-ethnic state espouse the cause ethnic nationlism? It's a non sequitur. Pashtuns in Pakistan are surrounded by Baloch, Punjabi, Sindhi. In Afghanisatan Pashtuns are surrounded by Mongol Persian speaking Shia Hazaras, Turkmen, Uzbeks and Tajiks. Both countries are patchwork of ethnic groups. All groups in Afghanistan spill over into Pakistan, Turmenistan, Uzbekistan, Tajikistan. The whole region is untidy borders and lines running across common ethnic groups all legacy of either Russian rule or British rule and little to do with any of the natives.

I have to go now but when and if Afghanistan becomes a 100% Pashtun state that only represents Pashtuns causes please call me. Until then adios.

 

[spinghar renacido]

Unilaterally or not ... A country which can't even control much of its own territory from Taliban shouldn't open up useless fronts .. Specially where not even a single country supports it...

The reality is that the entire world regards Durrand line as an international border between. Pak and Afghanistan....

Afghanistan can't do anything to change it...

Better recognise the border and move on.





He has posted sources unlike your claims .. You are acting like a child .. Crying "fake" with nothing to back up your claims!

As for dividing Pashtuns .... Let's not kid ourselves ... Pak Pashtuns don't think that way and the afghans who live or visit Pak know that very much! Even your national cricketer got beat up at Peshwar when he tried bad mouthing Pakistan!


You are a war torn failed state which offers nothing .. Nobody would even consider joining you..

And historically it has always been smaller areas/territories that have merged with bigger countries... If anything there are more chances of Afghanistan becoming a province of Pak than KPK joining Afghanistan... There are more Pashtuns in KPK alone than the entire population of Afghanistan.. Where Pashtuns make 45%.

As for FATA ... That's not it my friend ... Take a look at the global map ... Our constitution .. FATA ,PATA are our autonomously governed territories....

if you wish so, it's your keyboard

 

[CHACHA"G"]

Hello all.
First of all Mr @Asfandyar Bhittani , I must say a great read , If I remember I read about your article on Wakhan corridor here on PDF .
I agree with U , Afghans and Pakistani Pashtuns are 100% different from each other, I have some Pashtuns friends who live adored well-settle , U will put your fingers in your ears if u listen what they have to say about Afghans Pashtuns. Please take it as no offence , but I also agree with them .
The only solution to this problem is , As I always said , Send all Afghans back to there country, Then Mine the border , then Trench it and then Fence it with check posts right after 3Km . Completely close it only allow entry from few fix points with visa holders only!!!!!!!!!!!!

Pakistan should summarize its economic loses due to the afghan immigrants and demand mining rights in Afghanistan.
Or they should annex the much needed wakhan corridor.

When my Great-grandparents ruled the princely state of chitral the wakhan corridor used to a part of its empire but now we might desperately need it back for future prospects of Natural Gas resource into our Northern area's and districts ,Because Pakistani terrain is increasingly above sea level and obstructs mass lines into those area's hence is the reason these places don't have Gas lines.
Our trade with Tajikistan will also Increase,There were Thousands of families who had Interests in Tajikistan due to trade but now many of those families are struggling due to revised trade agreements.

Bro u and @Asfandyar Bhittani have great point , this will serve Pakistan lot , We can do it as easily , as u said it was part of your state chitral so its part of Pakistan.

Note: Once!!!!! Akbar and His 3 Grand Children borne in Subcontinent "India" and Ruled Afghanistan !!!!!!! Because Pakistan is a Muslim country in subcontinent so hell yeh Afghanistan Belongs to us , Its our Land by all means ................................................................... @Kaptaan , @Asfandyar Bhittani , @Northern , @DESERT FIGHTER

The Mughal Empire.

Khilji Empire.

 

[Asfandyar Bhittani]

Hello all.
First of all Mr @Asfandyar Bhittani , I must say a great read , If I remember I read about your article on Wakhan corridor here on PDF .
I agree with U , Afghans and Pakistani Pashtuns are 100% different from each other, I have some Pashtuns friends who live adored well-settle , U will put your fingers in your ears if u listen what they have to say about Afghans Pashtuns. Please take it as no offence , but I also agree with them .
The only solution to this problem is , As I always said , Send all Afghans back to there country, Then Mine the border , then Trench it and then Fence it with check posts right after 3Km . Completely close it only allow entry from few fix points with visa holders only!!!!!!!!!!!!

First of All Thank you. You are very generous in your praise.
second If Afghanistan doesn't take back the decisions it made in 1949, i believe we will have no choice but to physically seal the border.

 

[spinghar renacido]

There is a reason why the Pakistan-Afghanistan border is non issue for 99% of the world. It is this legal concept (................), a norm in international law so to speak. You can keep telling yourselves that this and that is not off the table. To be frank the rest of the world does not give a shi*.

the world don't even give a shit about kashmir, they have enough of their problems. what you need to understand, it's not about the international community and world in intrinsic forms ( though you should read the whole thread , we are talking in lights of these conventions) frankly speaking if countries go hard they don't give shit about UN conventions either. in future if world accept india stance on kashmir and azad kashmir, will pakistan gave up on IOK and Azad Kashmir? No
friend border are meant between neighbors, unless neighbors don't agrees the world is irrelevant, you either enforce it if you can other wise sit and talk.