Adventurism' of armed forces must be stopped, Senate told

[third eye]

'Adventurism' of armed forces must be stopped, Senate told - PakTribune

ISLAMABAD: The Senate on Wednesday was told that "the adventurism" of the armed forces must be stopped and they be put on the right path to help improve the law and order situation in Quetta, Karachi and FATA.

On a point of order, Awami National Party (ANP) Senator Abdul Nabi Bangash said Pakistan was going to celebrate the Defence Day on Thursday (today) but "we should not forget that top officials of the armed forces are doing adventurism".

"In the Kargil fight, several Pakistani soldiers and officials sacrificed their lives and capture the Kargil area. Col Sher Khan and others sacrificed their lives for the sake of country, but later every thing was forgotten. Today, neither the Kashmir issue nor the other disputes with the neighbouring country are resolved. Kashmir and other issues were intentionally not resolved because after it there will be no justification for the massive security forces," he said, adding, "From General Ayub Khan to Musharraf, all played havoc with the country."

"After the Kargil dispute, the then Pakistani army chief and his commanders refused to accept bodies of Col Sher Khan and others. The Pakistani forces accepted their bodies when the Indian Army said that they were going to honour them with Indian awards," the senator said. "We have lost Kargil and Kashmir, then why we are fighting," he asked. He also said that the armed forces then had only conquered the Prime Minister's House and President's House. He suggested that the forces' budget should be presented in parliament and each and everything must be discussed there. Proper measures should be taken to put the armed forces on the right path, he added.

Through another point of order, ANP Senator Shahi Syed expressed serious concern over introduction of "Musharraf's Law in Sindh through a well-planned conspiracy", a reference to the recent activity regarding the local government system in the province. "Long meetings were held between two political parties in Sindh, while other parities, including ANP, PML-F and PML-Q, were kept out. The other three provinces rejected the Musharraf's law while the government wants to introduce it in Sindh through an ordinance. Under this ordinance, government departments will be made hostage. There is a well-planned conspiracy to divide Sindh," he said, adding that he would resist any such effort. He asked the federal government to keep the Sindh government from introducing any such ordinance.

PPP Senator Mukhtar Ahmed told the House that no one could divide Sindh in the presence of the PPP and that there was no threat to the federation. "If someone is planning any conspiracy to divide Sindh, PPP will strongly resist it," the senator said.

Earlier, during the question hour, the House witnessed a heated debate over the alleged incorrect replies given by the Ministry of Communication and Information Technology and Telecommunication. Over a question of Tahir Hussain Mashhadi, regarding construction of roads in all provinces in 2009-10 and 2010-11, the Senate was informed that a total of 1,191 kilometres of roads were constructed across the country.

 

[third eye]

Rather scathing words..

Democracy at work .......?

 

[SQ8]

Rather scathing words..

Democracy at work .......?

Quite, and rather correct to a degree too.
The actual land taken by the Army in kargil were the Pakistani PM and President house.. or one wonders if this had been the plan all along???

Such question are now being asked in public all over.. and the final sacred cow in Pakistani power structure is vulnerable to critique now too.
This is a good development for the country as it leads to demands for accountability.
No one is immune..be it the President House or GHQ.

 

[TaimiKhan]

For last 4 years these morons have been left and not hindered with any adventurism, they have destroyed the country, done nothing for this country, except eat it, especially the ANP.

And now to hide their corruption and moronic attitude, they bring in rather drag in the military yet again to justify their corruption.

Pathetic state of affairs by the current lot of politicians, that is the exact reason the next time military takes over, people will again dance in the streets and distribute sweets to get rid of these morons.

 

[RoYaL~GuJJaR]

Good Development...

At-least now their political leaders have started speaking rationally. A strong democratic government in pakistan is in "our" Interest.

 

[Inception-06]

"After the Kargil dispute, the then Pakistani army chief and his commanders refused to accept bodies of Col Sher Khan and others. The Pakistani forces accepted their bodies when the Indian Army said that they were going to honour them with Indian awards," the senator said." Good move by the indians !

 

[VCheng]

.............
Pathetic state of affairs by the current lot of politicians, that is the exact reason the next time military takes over, people will again dance in the streets and distribute sweets to get rid of these morons.

.... followed by another dance and mithai when the dictatorship falls 10 years later, followed by another dance in the streets to distribute sweets to get rid of the civilian morons who replace them, followed by ....... such goes the tragic story of the Pakistani nation.

 

[Contrarian]

You cannot expect the politicians to suddenly become good because the Army has for the first time not interfered in 4 years.

The reason why democracy works is because politicians are held accountable for their last 5 years in power. Have you given that opportunity to any political party in Pakistan?
Why would a political party perform, when it knows that there is a 99% probability that they will be removed by a coup. In that scenario they will try and make most of their term by making money instead of working. As they dont have to face the electorate who will demand and question.

One government might eat all money, the next one will have to eat slightly less as they understand that if they loot all the money they will be voted out. So the cycle continues in a positive direction but very slowly.

There is a reason why it takes decades for a political system to evolve.

And you have not given the political system enough time to evolve. If you act stupid and demand that in 4 years, over half a century's pattern be changed, then you are in for a huge disappointment and then you deserve dictatorship.

 

[Solomon2]

.... followed by another dance and mithai when the dictatorship falls 10 years later, followed by another dance in the streets to distribute sweets to get rid of the civilian morons who replace them, followed by ....... such goes the tragic story of the Pakistani nation.

I suppose you're going to have to coordinate legislative and even constitutional reforms to tame the military with grass-roots support for the same. Tricky, since the military also has its own grass-roots mechanisms dating back to the days of British rule. Perhaps if one considers the MQM example and these matters were organized by expats abroad there would be a greater chance of success?

 

[batmannow]

I suppose you're going to have to coordinate legislative and even constitutional reforms to tame the military with grass-roots support for the same. Tricky, since the military also has its own grass-roots mechanisms dating back to the days of British rule. Perhaps if one considers the MQM example and these matters were organized by expats abroad there would be a greater chance of success?

The best era of democratic rule in pakistan was under army,s rule!
Under FM ayub khan, Gen. Zia ul haq, Gen musharaf !
All 3 terms were far more better & far more good thn the dam rules of crupt civil rulers of pakistan, plz check the stats!

 

[VCheng]

I suppose you're going to have to coordinate legislative and even constitutional reforms to tame the military with grass-roots support for the same. Tricky, since the military also has its own grass-roots mechanisms dating back to the days of British rule. Perhaps if one considers the MQM example and these matters were organized by expats abroad there would be a greater chance of success?

It would be naive to think that the status quo could be changed as simply as that. I am not even sure it is possible any longer short of something drastic, which poses its own headaches.

 

[third eye]

The best era of democratic rule in pakistan was under army,s rule!
Under FM ayub khan, Gen. Zia ul haq, Gen musharaf !
All 3 terms were far more better & far more good thn the dam rules of crupt civil rulers of pakistan, plz check the stats!

Democracy under Army Rule ?

Thats an Oxymoron !

 

[TaimiKhan]

You cannot expect the politicians to suddenly become good because the Army has for the first time not interfered in 4 years.

The reason why democracy works is because politicians are held accountable for their last 5 years in power. Have you given that opportunity to any political party in Pakistan?
Why would a political party perform, when it knows that there is a 99% probability that they will be removed by a coup. In that scenario they will try and make most of their term by making money instead of working. As they dont have to face the electorate who will demand and question.

One government might eat all money, the next one will have to eat slightly less as they understand that if they loot all the money they will be voted out. So the cycle continues in a positive direction but very slowly.

There is a reason why it takes decades for a political system to evolve.

And you have not given the political system enough time to evolve. If you act stupid and demand that in 4 years, over half a century's pattern be changed, then you are in for a huge disappointment and then you deserve dictatorship.

In Pakistan there is no accountability. Majority of the politicians, rather all the major politicians are rich, massively rich and landlords kind of background, thus they buy votes and stay in power.

Till the day we have this lot of politicians, there will be no accountability. They will keep coming into the power corridors and eat this country.

And 4 years were more then enough for these politicians to run the things and make something good for the people to win their hearts, but since people become disappointed in the politicians, they will again look towards military intervention rather people have already started looking at the military for some respite from these politicians.

In 4 years time period, they have done not a single act which is worth mentioning.

I suppose you're going to have to coordinate legislative and even constitutional reforms to tame the military with grass-roots support for the same. Tricky, since the military also has its own grass-roots mechanisms dating back to the days of British rule. Perhaps if one considers the MQM example and these matters were organized by expats abroad there would be a greater chance of success?

You bring in MQM, a band of thugs, killers, dacoits, whose leader is hiding in a foreign country and running things worse then a dictator.

Better to have military rule and let the military have the country rather then to run this country by thugs like MQM.

 

[third eye]

For last 4 years these morons have been left and not hindered with any adventurism, they have destroyed the country, done nothing for this country, except eat it, especially the ANP.

And now to hide their corruption and moronic attitude, they bring in rather drag in the military yet again to justify their corruption.

Pathetic state of affairs by the current lot of politicians, that is the exact reason the next time military takes over, people will again dance in the streets and distribute sweets to get rid of these morons.

Have the politicians been left alone ?

Even if they were , one wonders what they could have achieved when all organs of the state do not report to GOP, Islamabad.

Events like Abbotabad etc do not give the impression that the civilians were / are in control - at lest not yet.

 

[TaimiKhan]

Have the politicians been left alone ?

Even if they were , one wonders what they could have achieved when all organs of the state do not report to GOP, Islamabad.

Events like Abbotabad etc do not give the impression that the civilians were / are in control - at lest not yet.

Govt wins the heart of the people by doing something for them. Its not about who is under them or who is reporting to them or not. This comes later.

Economic decisions & planning has been totally left to the politicians and they were independent in doing whatever they could have done for the country and its people, there was no military related intervention in that. Military intervention is mostly in the foreign affairs related area, that also specific to US/India etc kind of countries.

The politicians had a golden chance to give something to the people and win their hearts and once they had done that, then they could have taken on the bureaucracy / military establishment and make them answerable as people would have been behind them. But alas, what they did and are doing is eat this country with massive corruption, corruption which has broken all the records and has no parallel in the history of Pakistan.

And military guys are on board with certain civil quarters, but not the politicians, as our politicians are not civilians, they are into politics to make money for themselves and not to do something for the country and its people. All they do best is do corruption and people of Pakistan are at their worst since its creation.