Advani & Moving Forward on Kashmir

[Flintlock]

Just as funny as the denial by Indians that they have nothing to do with the terrorism in FATA, Baluchistan and Punjab.

And I suppose soon you'll be saying it was Martians who supported a violent separatist movement in East Pakistan and started a war to dismember Pakistan.

Frankly, I am yet to see a single credit-worthy source which says that India is supporting the BLA or whatever.

As for East Pakistan, that was a bad idea in the first place....not to mention, terribly mismanaged by Pakistan.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Frankly, I am yet to see a single credit-worthy source which says that India is supporting the BLA or whatever.

As for East Pakistan, that was a bad idea in the first place....not to mention, terribly mismanaged by Pakistan.

Stealth - almost every analysis that concludes that Pakistan is supporting terrorism in India (separate from the insurgency) is based on Indian intel or/and law enforcement analysis.

That same yardstick is what I am using for claiming that India is involved in FATA and Baluchistan - Pakistani interior ministry and law enforcement statements.

On the issue of East Pakistan - the reasons Indians often come up with for their acts in East Pakistan are nothing but platitudes. No matter how badly we mismanage our country, it is our country. It doesn't give anyone else any right to start supporting an insurgency and start a "war to liberate oppressed people".

There is no excuse for India's actions in East Pakistan.

That said, it is time to move beyond the blame game. As I said before, neither side has clean hands.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Moving posts from partition thread here.

 

[Flintlock]

Stealth - almost every analysis that concludes that Pakistan is supporting terrorism in India (separate from the insurgency) is based on Indian intel or/and law enforcement analysis.

That same yardstick is what I am using for claiming that India is involved in FATA and Baluchistan - Pakistani interior ministry and law enforcement statements.

On the issue of East Pakistan - the reasons Indians often come up with for their acts in East Pakistan are nothing but platitudes. No matter how badly we mismanage our country, it is our country. It doesn't give anyone else any right to start supporting an insurgency and start a "war to liberate oppressed people".

There is no excuse for India's actions in East Pakistan.

That said, it is time to move beyond the blame game. As I said before, neither side has clean hands.

That's not true at all.

Every intelligence agency in the world, the CIA, the Brits, everyone knows that Pakistan sends terrorists across the LOC.

There is so much proof, remember, these attacks used to happen on a daily basis, so much so that India fenced the LOC. There is satellite data, huge caches of weapons, ammunition, ID Cards, witnesses...

There's Kargil, there is, I repeat, so much proof.

And if you still dont believe it, there are a few members here itself who claim to support the terrorists.

Where is the proof that India is supporting insurgencies in Pakistan? There isn't any, except the word of Pakistani officials, which is suspect anyway.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

That's not true at all.

Every intelligence agency in the world, the CIA, the Brits, everyone knows that Pakistan sends terrorists across the LOC.

There is so much proof, remember, these attacks used to happen on a daily basis, so much so that India fenced the LOC. There is satellite data, huge caches of weapons, ammunition, ID Cards, witnesses.

Where is the proof that India is supporting insurgencies in Pakistan? There isn't any, except the word of Pakistani officials, which is suspect anyway.

Stealth:


On Pakistan supporting the insurgency in Kashmir I have no argument - where I do disagree is the assertion that Pakistan is sponsoring the train and market bomb blasts elsewhere in India.

That is where I am drawing the comparison of "Indian intel and law enforcement analysis" vs "Pakistani interior ministry and law enforcement analysis".

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Stop making me do all this work stealth

 

[Flintlock]

Stealth:


On Pakistan supporting the insurgency in Kashmir I have no argument - where I do disagree is the assertion that Pakistan is sponsoring the train and market bomb blasts elsewhere in India.

That is where I am drawing the comparison of "Indian intel and law enforcement analysis" vs "Pakistani interior ministry and law enforcement analysis".

I'll just say one thing: A huge number of Islamic terror groups have their headquarters in Pakistan.

Now whether the GOP/ISI helps them, or not, nor simply ignores them....is upto you to decide.

Having a network of terrorist organizations doesn't do good to any country.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

I'll just say one thing: A huge number of Islamic terror groups have their headquarters in Pakistan.

Now whether the GOP/ISI helps them, or not, nor simply ignores them....is upto you to decide.

Let me just say this: Having a network of terrorist organizations doesn't do good to any country.

There certainly are linkages between the people we have supported and the people who might be involved in terrorism in India (links not necessarily supported by the GoP) - but as you can see from the situation in FATA, even when that terrorism has affected Pakistan directly, it has not been possible to simply go in and "dismantle" everything.

The Kashmir insurgency and the Afghan Jihad have spawned monsters that have become impossible to control.

But going back to resolving Kashmir - if there is movement towards a resolution of the Kashmir dispute acceptable to the Kashmiris, then it takes away any justification and support these groups would have, especially amongst the Kashmiris themselves, and it would be much easier to destroy/rehabilitate them.

The hardcore will never give up, but they will be sufficiently small in number and lacking in popular support that it will be easy to isolate them.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

PM calls for trade between divided parts of Kashmir

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By Tariq Naqash


MUZAFFARABAD, April 30: Prime Minister Syed Yusuf Raza Gilani on Wednesday called for starting trade and tourism activities between the divided parts of Kashmir and suggested greater opportunities for the Kashmiris on the two sides to sit and interact with each other.

“We are happy that the Muzaffarabad-Srinagar bus service has been launched and some points have been opened along the Line of Control for divided families. While these steps should be appreciated, we would also like that trade and tourism between the two parts is also initiated,” he said.

Mr Gilani was addressing a special joint sitting of the AJK assembly and the AJK council during his first visit to Muzaffarabad after assuming the office of prime minister.

He said that in all spheres of life, the people of Kashmir should be given maximum opportunities to interact with each other.

Underlining the importance of talks for conflict resolution, he said Pakistan would continue to advance the peace process with India and use the process of dialogue to resolve the core issue of Kashmir.

“Pakistan wants to hold purposeful and result-oriented talks with India and we are hopeful that the (ongoing) composite dialogue between the two sides will arrive at a better outcome,” he said.

Mr Gilani called for an end to the human rights violations in occupied Kashmir to create a more favourable atmosphere.

Paying tribute to the sacrifices rendered by the people of Kashmir for their right to self determination, he said these would not go in vain.

“History itself is advocating their cause because the justness of their struggle is self evident. Their movement is not against anyone but for the fulfilment of a pledge made by the United Nations,” he said.

He also made it clear that Pakistan would fully respect the wishes and aspirations of the Kashmiris about their future status.

The prime minister said he had full realisation of the losses and wanted that reconstruction work to be completed as early as possible.

He announced that a review meeting of Erra would be held every month to speed up the rehabilitation and reconstruction process.

”This process would not be hindered on account of resource crunch.”

Mr Gilani acknowledged that rehabilitation of the people affected by the Mangla dam extension project was an important issue and it would be settled soon.

He directed the Ministry of Kashmir Affairs to resolve all issues relevant to the project.

The prime minister announced that the federal government would establish a medical college in Muzaffarabad in collaboration with the AJK Council, the AJK government and the private sector.

“We would also conduct a feasibility study for a women’s university in AJK,” he said.

The prime minister said that the government wanted to revive normal activities in areas along the Line of Control which had been badly affected by cross-border shelling from 1989 to 2003.

The federal government would also to tap the rich water resources in Azad Kashmir, he said, adding that the government was considering allowing construction of a 100 megawatt hydropower projects in public sector.

About the increase of Rs500 in the monthly subsistence allowance for Kashmiri refugees, he said the government would try to include that raise in the next budget.

Earlier, AJK Prime Minister Sardar Attique Ahmed Khan, Leader of Opposition Sardar Qamaruz Zaman and Speaker Shah Ghulam Qadir welcomed the prime minister.

When the floor was given to the leader of the house, lawmakers from People’s Muslim League, JK People’s Party and MQM demanded that the head of each parliamentary party should be given time to speak.

However, when the chair did not accept the demand, they walked out of the house, but returned when the prime minister stared his speech.

Earlier, the house unanimously paid tribute to slain PPP chairperson Benazir Bhutto through a resolution tabled by PPAJK secretary general Chaudhry Latif Akbar.

PM calls for trade between divided parts of Kashmir -DAWN - National; May 01, 2008

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I think it would actually be quite callous for India and Pakistan proper to start Trade and cultural exchanges, and leave out Kashmir, while thousands of families remain torn apart, and are unable to trade and travel between their own people.

The two countries need to expand upon easing the travel restrictions and encourage trade between Kashmiris.