Advanced Munitions Development program Pakistan (AAM) and (AGM)

[Falcon26]

You can call harpoon rumor. Agreed on that but rest is not.


The MoU was signed in March 2017 they will come up with some thing. You don't sign MoU with out any reason.

Posting source provides basis for credible discussion. Without sourcing, the thread loses its purpose and creates confusion

 

[BHarwana]

Posting source provides basis for credible discussion. Without sourcing, the thread loses its purpose and creates confusion

With source you only discuss news this is defence forum not news discussion site. I wanted to start a discussion on the issue and it has already started. I have provided 2 sources one of Mou and other of project being operational.

I did not posted this thread for people to make youtube videos from some news but rather to have constructive discussion.

 

[Inception-06]

Fan boys and their wet dreams !!

let him do his worke better here than in any ttp/ppp/drug camp !I like his enthusiasm and nationalism for Pakistan !

 

[ziaulislam]

The MoU is a sign of the South African gov't and Denel being willing - at least in word - to work with Pakistan. Thankfully, the gap between the ZAR and PKR isn't as much as that of the PKR and USD/EUR/GBP, so cost isn't as much of an issue. So, there's some potential (e.g. PAC even singled out the A-Darter as the Block-III's HOBS AAM in 2015). However, South Africa turning its back during the 2000s (to score in India) might still be felt in Pakistan and Pakistan's persistent internal issues are major stumbling blocks. Plus Turkey has also risen since 2010.

joining turkey seems to be a safer option but how much is the DARTER ready

 

[Falcon26]

Posting source provides basis for credible discussion. Without sourcing, the thread loses its purpose and creates confusion

With source you only discuss news this is defence forum not news discussion site. I wanted to start a discussion on the issue and it has already started. I have provided 2 sources one of Mou and other of project being operational.

I did not posted this thread for people to make youtube videos from some news but rather to have constructive discussion.

You should have posted the links on your initial post.

 

[Bilal Khan (Quwa)]

joining turkey seems to be a safer option but how much is the DARTER ready

A-Darter is already in production for the SAAF. So the missile itself is ready, the missing link (applicable to the A-Darter, Turkish GÖKDOĞAN and even Chinese PL-10) is HMD/S.

There aren't any service-ready HMD/S systems on the market besides the Elbit DASH/Targo (the basis of JHMCS/II), BAE Striker and Thales TopOwl-F.

The Elbit stuff is a non-starter (Israel); the JHMCS II is a non-starter (US/Israel); BAE Striker is unlikely; and the TopOwl-F is older technology (monocle system instead of a digital panel. Even India decided to replace it with the DASH from Israel on the Rafale). The Chinese are still working on theirs, no ETA yet.

Personally, I do think the option to acquire the TopOwl-F is there (Pakistan's still buying other things from Thales Optronics), it'll just be a passable system instead of an optimal one.

 

[vizier]

A2a missile especially a medium range active radar seeker variant can both be used by aircraft and on the ground-airbases-ships etc. against cruise missiles. There were news long time ago about Pak experiments with missiles called H2 and H4. They might be a2g missiles or evolving steps for an a2a missile project but no news afterwards possibly shelved project.

 

[BHarwana]

A-Darter is already in production for the SAAF. So the missile itself is ready, the missing link (applicable to the A-Darter, Turkish GÖKDOĞAN and even Chinese PL-10) is HMD/S.

There aren't any service-ready HMD/S systems on the market besides the Elbit DASH/Targo (the basis of JHMCS/II), BAE Striker and Thales TopOwl-F.

The Elbit stuff is a non-starter (Israel); the JHMCS II is a non-starter (US/Israel); BAE Striker is unlikely; and the TopOwl-F is older technology (monocle system instead of a digital panel. Even India decided to replace it with the DASH from Israel on the Rafale). The Chinese are still working on theirs, no ETA yet.

Personally, I do think the option to acquire the TopOwl-F is there (Pakistan's still buying other things from Thales Optronics), it'll just be a passable system instead of an optimal one.

Can we develop a new 5th gen Fighter without developing Munition for it? Because 5th gen requires internal weapons bay and as Pakistan prefers single engine Jets wouldn't the current air-to-air munition a little oversized for it?

Or can the Mou with south Africa will allow us to integrate their Air-to-Air missiles with our own platform?

 

[Windjammer]

I have a very simple question. Pakistan has project AZM and Pakistan has a MOU with South Africa. Now what is the point of Mou if Pakistan is not going to develop an Air-to-Air missile? Pakistan is not buying a 5th gen from any country that will provide us with a missile as well Pakistan has to develop it so this Mou is for the very reason. As you said we cannot integrate Harpoon on F-16 so can we integrate sidewinder on the AZM?

@Bilal Khan (Quwa) lets ask someone who can shed some light on the issue.

@Windjammer

Dude I'm not going to present it on a dish to the self styled PDF critics.
The Harpoon capability is very much there and all those saying we need US permission for this and that well i would like to ask them if it was the Americans who gave us permission to convert and arm our F-16s with non conventional weapons. !!!

 

[BHarwana]

Dude I'm not going to present it on a dish to the self styled PDF critics.
The Harpoon capability is very much there and all those saying we need US permission for this and that well i would like to ask them if it was the Americans who gave us permission to convert and arm our F-16s with non conventional weapons. !!!

My purpose of mentioning you was for Harpoon basically. One more question can we Upgrade any military platform if the provider country is imposing sanctions and no more providing parts for the system? Because if they are not providing parts they are violating agreement them selves in the first place.

 

[Windjammer]

My purpose of mentioning you was for Harpoon basically. One more question can we Upgrade any military platform if the provider country is imposing sanctions and no more providing parts for the system? Because if they are not providing parts they are violating agreement them selves in the first place.

It's an open market and a lot of stuff is available for the right price, you may not be able to upgrade everything to next level but you can certainly maintain your stuff to an exception.
Take these extended range 600 Gallon drop tanks on our F-16 fleet, rumour has it that we didn't obtain them from the US.

 

[BHarwana]

It's an open market and a lot of stuff is available for the right price, you may not be able to upgrade everything to next level but you can certainly maintain your stuff to an exception.
Take these extended range 600 Gallon drop tanks on our F-16 fleet, rumour has it that we didn't obtain them from the US.

So this means we are continuously upgrading our capabilities and bring our current fleet to 4.5 gen standards. For example Pakistan officially announced the existence of Barq missile in 2015 but the missile was operational long time before that as was used in Khyber 1 operation in Tihar valley. Barq missile being on par with Maverick missile if integrated with Turkish helicopters can make huge sales.

 

[The Deterrent]

The Next missile under this program which is expected is an Air to sea version of Harbah Missile

Air-to-sea Harbah? Please take a look at its dimensions.
Ra'ad-II will do this job.

 

[BHarwana]

Air-to-sea Harbah? Please take a look at its dimensions.
Ra'ad-II will do this job.

If you use your brains thats what i meant a cross between Ra'ad and Harbah.

 

[The Deterrent]

For example Pakistan officially announced the existence of Barq missile in 2015 but the missile was operational long time before that as was used in Khyber 1 operation in Tihar valley.

No it wasn't operational before clearing its development test flights. Please don't indulge yourself in jingoism.

If you use your brains thats what i meant a cross between Ra'ad and Harbah.

Oh, my idle brain obviously missed that memo in the thunderstorm of your enthusiasm.