Additional S400 for Turkey

[xenon54 out]

According to the following video, F-35s will come to Turkey some time in future, but in her terms!! The folk which stands up in anger sits down in loss...

#tolgaozbek #ayhantarakci #covid19 F-35'ler bir gün Türkiye'ye gelecek

So thats why you say Erdogans strategy is good? Based on a prediction that may or may not happen?

I doubt F35 fits in Turkish future regional strategy.

Care to elaborate?

 

[TheBlackCoat]

I doubt F35 fits in Turkish future regional strategy.

It is very apparent that Erdoğan wants Turkey to be out of NATO and join SCO instead.

Care to elaborate?

F-35 is useless if you are getting out of NATO and joining SCO.

Hmm resale it to Pakistan and go for F-35s from USA as above a poster said that Turkish own SAMs are ready, it will be win win situation for both.

Erdoğan has made peace with both Putin/Russia and Xi/China.

All decks have been cleared for Erdoğan/Turkey to join SCO.

 

[xenon54 out]

It is very apparent that Erdoğan wants Turkey to be out of NATO and join SCO instead.



F-35 is useless if you are getting out of NATO and joining SCO.



Erdoğan has made peace with both Putin/Russia and Xi/China.

All decks have been cleared for Erdoğan/Turkey to join SCO.

Oh god, another one...
Yeah guys you are all right Turkey is gonna leave NATO and join a alliance with its centuries old natural enemy.

 

[T-123456]

It is very apparent that Erdoğan wants Turkey to be out of NATO and join SCO instead.



F-35 is useless if you are getting out of NATO and joining SCO.



Erdoğan has made peace with both Putin/Russia and Xi/China.

All decks have been cleared for Erdoğan/Turkey to join SCO.

The only obstacle for you to become a member of NATO,right?

 

[Khanivore]

It is very apparent that Erdoğan wants Turkey to be out of NATO and join SCO instead.

What makes you think that Turkey wants to leave NATO? SCO has two big members that Turkey cannot really align with: Russia and China.

 

[Hakikat ve Hikmet]

So thats why you say Erdogans strategy is good? Based on a prediction that may or may not happen?


Care to elaborate?

Time will tell...

No risks no gains...

 

[Trango Towers]

Which is a very bad tradeoff, F-35 might be more expensive but Turkey was producing parts and was gonna become maintainance hub for them and would make billions just like with F-16s, aside from the invaluable experience in high tech industry.
Not to mention how much more effective a F-35 is compared to Russian junk.

What did Turkey get in return? A system whose effectiveness is questionable and a unreliable partner that cant even honor a ceasefire agreement...
Stop trying to paint it as a victory its ridiculous, its actually the biggest lost in recent decades, i cant believe how erdogan has ruined the work of thousands of engineers and decades of cooperation.

There is still so much wrong with the F35. For example supersonic flight

 

[Basel]

It is very apparent that Erdoğan wants Turkey to be out of NATO and join SCO instead.



F-35 is useless if you are getting out of NATO and joining SCO.



Erdoğan has made peace with both Putin/Russia and Xi/China.

All decks have been cleared for Erdoğan/Turkey to join SCO.

Will help BRI too.

 

[Armchair]

https://www.defensenews.com/air/201...e-big-problems-for-the-f-35s-stealth-coating/

What Turkey "missed".

 

[TheBlackCoat]

Oh god, another one...
Yeah guys you are all right Turkey is gonna leave NATO and join a alliance with its centuries old natural enemy.

The only obstacle for you to become a member of NATO,right?

What makes you think that Turkey wants to leave NATO? SCO has two big members that Turkey cannot really align with: Russia and China.

Really? This is from the horse's mouth.

http://www.mfa.gov.tr/shanghai-cooperation-organization.en.mfa

Shanghai Cooperation Organisation
Shanghai Cooperation Organisation

The aim of the organization is to strengthen good-neighbourly, friendly relations and mutual trust among Member States; to exert common efforts for the protection of regional peace, security and stability; to fight against terrorism, radicalism, separatism, organized crime and illegal migration; to reinforce cooperation in political, economic, scientific, technologic and energy, as well as environmental issues.

The Date of Establishment:

15th July 2001

The Center:

Beijing

Secretary General:

Rashid Alimov (Tajikistan)

Member States:
People’s Republic of China, the Russian Federation, Kyrgyzstan, Tajikistan, Kazakhstan, Uzbekistan, India, Pakistan

Observer States:

Afghanistan, Mongolia, Iran, Belarus

Dialogue Partners:
Turkey, Sri Lanka, Kamboçya, Nepal, Azerbaijan and Armenia


The Historical Background of the Organization
Shanghai Cooperation Organization was founded in 1996 by the People’s Republic of China, the Russian Federation, Kyrgyzstan, Tajikistan and Kazakhstan in order to build mutual trust among Member States, to disarm the border regions and to encourage regional cooperation under the name “Shanghai Five”.

In 1996 and 1997, the Heads of States of aforementioned five countries came together and signed, respectively in Shanghai and Moscow, the “Treaty on Deepening Military Trust in Border Regions” and the “Treaty on Reduction of Military Forces in Border Regions”. In summit meetings between 1998 and 2000 which were held respectively in Almaty, Bishkek and Dushanbe, Member States consulted on ways to increase security in border region, as well as, on political, economic and security issues.

In Heads of State Meeting which was held in Shanghai on 14-15 June 2001, in the light of recent developments both in international arena and Member States, it was decided to transform the Shanghai Five into a regional organization in order to carry out a more effective cooperation for combating threats of terrorism, separatism and radicalism. In this context, a Joint Declaration admitting Uzbekistan as member of the Shanghai Five mechanism was adopted and the Declaration on the Establishment of Shanghai Cooperation Organization was signed by six Member Countries. In addition, “Shanghai Convention on Combatting Terrorism, Separatism and Extremism” was signed in the meeting.

In the first Prime Minister’s meeting of SCO which was held in Almaty on 14 September 2001, a Memorandum of Understanding on Creating Better Conditions for Regional Economic Cooperation and Trade, as well as Investments was signed. Moreover, it was declared that the meetings on the level of Prime Ministers of the Member States have become a regular mechanism. Today, along with other meeting mechanisms, SCO heads of State Summit and SCO Prime Minister’s Council Meetings held once a year constitute the highest level of these mechanisms. Compared with the Heads of State Summit, it is obvious that Prime Minister’s meeting especially addresses development issues and economic cooperation and presents a preparation for the Summit.

With SCO Charter which was signed in St. Petersburg at the SCO Heads of State Summit, on 7 June 2002, its targets, principles, structure, activities, cooperation areas and foreign relations have been determined.

Lastly, the 17th SCO Summit of Heads of State was held on 8-9 June 2017 in Astana. One of the most important agenda items of the Summit was the enlargement of the Organization. In this framework, the accession of India and Pakistan to the SCO as full members was approved by the Council of Heads of States during the Astana Summit.

At the end of the Summit, the Presidency of SCO was assumed by China.

Turkey’s Status

In Dushanbe Summit of 2008, a new mechanism under the name of “the Status of Dialogue Partner of SCO” were adopted with a view to institutionalizing the relations with third countries and international organizations wishing to have contact with the Organization and not having at observer status.

The status of Dialogue Partnership provides the third countries not having observer status with limited cooperation with the Organization in certain fields. The status in question is beyond “quest participants” and under “the observer status” in terms of the degree of institutional ties with the Organization.

SCO is working on establishing a special mechanism for furthering contacts with observer members and dialogue partners. In this context, it is aimed at founding units that will operate as committee/commission for managing contacts with SCO partners.

On 23 March 2011, Turkey applied for receiving the Status of Dialogue Partnership in the Organization. The Shanghai Cooperation Organization (SCO) approved Turkey’s application to become a Dialogue Partner at the Summit of the Heads of State of the SCO held in Beijing, China on 6-7 June 2012. Memorandum setting out cooperation modalities between Turkey as Dialogue Partner and the SCO was signed on 26 April 2013 in Almaty. Ratification process of the aforementioned document has been concluded by the adoption of the Cabinet of Ministers Decision dated 1 May 2017 in the Official Journal on 24.05.2017.

Dialogue Partnership envisages the improvement of cooperation between Turkey and SCO in various subjects mainly in regional security, fight against terrorism, drug trafficking and preventing organized crime as well as economic and cultural fields.

Will help BRI too.

Of course Turkey is strongly cooperating with Russia on TurkStream gas pipeline and with China on BRI

Turkey strong supporter of Belt and Road, Erdoğan tells Chinese press

https://www.dailysabah.com/diplomac...-of-belt-and-road-erdogan-tells-chinese-press

Turkey, Russia launch TurkStream pipeline carrying gas to Europe

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...pipeline-carrying-gas-to-europe-idUSKBN1Z71WP

 

[Khanivore]

Really? This is from the horse's mouth.

http://www.mfa.gov.tr/shanghai-cooperation-organization.en.mfa

Hmm I'll hold your horse and remind you that Status of Dialogue Partnership means nothing much, not even close to membership. I believe Israel also applied for Status of Dialogue Partnership.

 

[T-123456]

Really? This is from the horse's mouth.

http://www.mfa.gov.tr/shanghai-cooperation-organization.en.mfa

Shanghai Cooperation Organisation
Shanghai Cooperation Organisation

The aim of the organization is to strengthen good-neighbourly, friendly relations and mutual trust among Member States; to exert common efforts for the protection of regional peace, security and stability; to fight against terrorism, radicalism, separatism, organized crime and illegal migration; to reinforce cooperation in political, economic, scientific, technologic and energy, as well as environmental issues.

The Date of Establishment:

15th July 2001

The Center:

Beijing

Secretary General:

Rashid Alimov (Tajikistan)

Member States:
People’s Republic of China, the Russian Federation, Kyrgyzstan, Tajikistan, Kazakhstan, Uzbekistan, India, Pakistan

Observer States:

Afghanistan, Mongolia, Iran, Belarus

Dialogue Partners:
Turkey, Sri Lanka, Kamboçya, Nepal, Azerbaijan and Armenia


The Historical Background of the Organization
Shanghai Cooperation Organization was founded in 1996 by the People’s Republic of China, the Russian Federation, Kyrgyzstan, Tajikistan and Kazakhstan in order to build mutual trust among Member States, to disarm the border regions and to encourage regional cooperation under the name “Shanghai Five”.

In 1996 and 1997, the Heads of States of aforementioned five countries came together and signed, respectively in Shanghai and Moscow, the “Treaty on Deepening Military Trust in Border Regions” and the “Treaty on Reduction of Military Forces in Border Regions”. In summit meetings between 1998 and 2000 which were held respectively in Almaty, Bishkek and Dushanbe, Member States consulted on ways to increase security in border region, as well as, on political, economic and security issues.

In Heads of State Meeting which was held in Shanghai on 14-15 June 2001, in the light of recent developments both in international arena and Member States, it was decided to transform the Shanghai Five into a regional organization in order to carry out a more effective cooperation for combating threats of terrorism, separatism and radicalism. In this context, a Joint Declaration admitting Uzbekistan as member of the Shanghai Five mechanism was adopted and the Declaration on the Establishment of Shanghai Cooperation Organization was signed by six Member Countries. In addition, “Shanghai Convention on Combatting Terrorism, Separatism and Extremism” was signed in the meeting.

In the first Prime Minister’s meeting of SCO which was held in Almaty on 14 September 2001, a Memorandum of Understanding on Creating Better Conditions for Regional Economic Cooperation and Trade, as well as Investments was signed. Moreover, it was declared that the meetings on the level of Prime Ministers of the Member States have become a regular mechanism. Today, along with other meeting mechanisms, SCO heads of State Summit and SCO Prime Minister’s Council Meetings held once a year constitute the highest level of these mechanisms. Compared with the Heads of State Summit, it is obvious that Prime Minister’s meeting especially addresses development issues and economic cooperation and presents a preparation for the Summit.

With SCO Charter which was signed in St. Petersburg at the SCO Heads of State Summit, on 7 June 2002, its targets, principles, structure, activities, cooperation areas and foreign relations have been determined.

Lastly, the 17th SCO Summit of Heads of State was held on 8-9 June 2017 in Astana. One of the most important agenda items of the Summit was the enlargement of the Organization. In this framework, the accession of India and Pakistan to the SCO as full members was approved by the Council of Heads of States during the Astana Summit.

At the end of the Summit, the Presidency of SCO was assumed by China.

Turkey’s Status

In Dushanbe Summit of 2008, a new mechanism under the name of “the Status of Dialogue Partner of SCO” were adopted with a view to institutionalizing the relations with third countries and international organizations wishing to have contact with the Organization and not having at observer status.

The status of Dialogue Partnership provides the third countries not having observer status with limited cooperation with the Organization in certain fields. The status in question is beyond “quest participants” and under “the observer status” in terms of the degree of institutional ties with the Organization.

SCO is working on establishing a special mechanism for furthering contacts with observer members and dialogue partners. In this context, it is aimed at founding units that will operate as committee/commission for managing contacts with SCO partners.

On 23 March 2011, Turkey applied for receiving the Status of Dialogue Partnership in the Organization. The Shanghai Cooperation Organization (SCO) approved Turkey’s application to become a Dialogue Partner at the Summit of the Heads of State of the SCO held in Beijing, China on 6-7 June 2012. Memorandum setting out cooperation modalities between Turkey as Dialogue Partner and the SCO was signed on 26 April 2013 in Almaty. Ratification process of the aforementioned document has been concluded by the adoption of the Cabinet of Ministers Decision dated 1 May 2017 in the Official Journal on 24.05.2017.

Dialogue Partnership envisages the improvement of cooperation between Turkey and SCO in various subjects mainly in regional security, fight against terrorism, drug trafficking and preventing organized crime as well as economic and cultural fields.



Of course Turkey is strongly cooperating with Russia on TurkStream gas pipeline and with China on BRI

Turkey strong supporter of Belt and Road, Erdoğan tells Chinese press

https://www.dailysabah.com/diplomac...-of-belt-and-road-erdogan-tells-chinese-press

Turkey, Russia launch TurkStream pipeline carrying gas to Europe

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...pipeline-carrying-gas-to-europe-idUSKBN1Z71WP

Where did you see an indication of my country leaving NATO?
This is not it.

 

[MMM-E]

ccording to the following video, F-35s will come to Turkey some time in future

when the US/Israel find puppet leader in Turkey like SISI instead of ERDOGAN

then maybe Turkey will get American control flying computer F-35 , but Turkish Army will witdraw from Syria , Iraq and Libya .. even we will lose MAVI VATAN in the Eastern Mediterranean ...... Their motto is ready " Yurtta sulh Dünyada sulh " FETO tried to do it



still some our guys says F35-S400

Problem is not S400 or F35 .....The US will always use F35 as political card against Turkey

The US used F-35 card to save CIA agent BRUNSON
and now The US plays F-35 card against S-400 deal to ask Turkey for endless concessions
The problems between Turkey and the US are multilayered and very complicated. the S-400 just turned into a filter pushing other problems to the back burner

There are serious confrontation between Turkey and the US/Israel

-- the US/Israel wants to create free Kurdistan State in N.Iraq
-- the US/Israel wants to create PKK/YPG terror corridor in N.Syria to destroy Turkey's territorial integrity
-- Gas issue in the Eastern Mediterranean
-- the US used FETO terrorist organization since 2013 to destroy president Erdogan
-- the US wants to give whole Jerusalem to Israel and Turkey criticizes this dirty plan


also since 2011 , Israel/Israeli lobby worked for anti-Turkey not to get PATRIOT and F-35

and We never forget about Iran's F-14 story

 

[TheBlackCoat]

Where did you see an indication of my country leaving NATO?
This is not it.

This is written by Erdogan himself claiming Turkey is looking at making new friends.

Erdogan: How Turkey Sees the Crisis With the U.S.
Unilateral actions against Turkey by the United States will undermine American interests and force Turkey to look for other friends and allies.

By Recep Tayyip Erdogan

Mr. Erdogan is the president of Turkey.

• Aug. 10, 2018

President Recep Tayyip Erdogan of Turkey met with President Trump last year in New York, as shown in a photo released by the Turkish government.Credit...Kayhan Ozer/Anadolu Agency, via Getty Images

ANKARA, Turkey — For the past six decades, Turkey and the United States have been strategic partners and NATO allies. Our two countries stood shoulder to shoulder against common challenges during the Cold War and in its aftermath.

peace and continuity within Turkey.” To make matters worse, there has been no progress regarding Turkey’s request for the extradition of Fethullah Gulen under a bilateral treaty.

P.Y.D./Y.P.G., the Syrian branch of the P.K.K., an armed group that is responsible for the deaths of thousands of Turkish citizens since 1984 and that is designated a terrorist group by the United States. According to estimates by the Turkish authorities, Washington used 5,000 trucks and 2,000 cargo planes to deliver weapons to the P.Y.D./Y.P.G in recent years.

sanctions on several members of my cabinet. This decision was unacceptable, irrational and ultimately detrimental to our longstanding friendship.

To convey that Turkey does not respond to threats, we retaliated by sanctioning multiple American officials. Moving forward, we will abide by the same principle: Attempting to force my government to intervene in the judicial process is not in line with our Constitution or our shared democratic values.

Turkey has established time and again that it will take care of its own business if the United States refuses to listen. In the 1970s, the Turkish government stepped in to prevent massacres of ethnic Turks by the Greek Cypriots despite Washington’s objections. More recently, Washington’s failure to grasp the seriousness of our concerns regarding national security threats emanating from Northern Syria resulted in two military incursions that cut off the so-called Islamic State’s access to NATO’s borders and removed the Y.P.G. militants from the city of Afrin. As in those cases, we will take necessary steps to protect our national interests.

At a time when evil continues to lurk around the world, unilateral actions against Turkey by the United States, our ally of decades, will only serve to undermine American interests and security. Before it is too late, Washington must give up the misguided notion that our relationship can be asymmetrical and come to terms with the fact that Turkey has alternatives. Failure to reverse this trend of unilateralism and disrespect will require us to start looking for new friends and allies.

Recep Tayyip Erdogan is the president of Turkey.

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/08/10/opinion/turkey-erdogan-trump-crisis-sanctions.html

 

[himate]

Not for long though, it will soon be over if Erdo keeps being stubborn.

You guys say it has been a good strategy from him, im really curious what his strategy is.

So if erdogan now realigns with the US and gets the f35 you guys will say he's licking their a$$ again. Which way to win with you guys i dont know?
I personally think he should realign not because the US is an ally but because russia is a fundamental enemy of Turkey. Also I believe turkey should never order more than 5 f35 because of the risk associated with it like source codes. At least that way turkey has access to gaining experience in high tech. In the meantime s400 should be kept for reverse engineering and studying russian tactics with the tech