Acts of Terrorism in Pakistan

[muse]

How Pakistan plays with others or does not, has little bearing on the idea that the US needs to learn to play well with others.

Though your point is taken, perhaps a time will come when Pakistans international behaviour will be as consequential as the behaviour of the US is now. And yes, glasses houses is fair, and Pakistan bear resposnibility for their reputation.

 

[S-2]

"How Pakistan plays with others or does not, has little bearing on the idea that the US needs to learn to play well with others."

Your point is taken as well. There's always room for improvement, Muse. Your "idea", of course, presumes that we don't "play well" by weight of public perception. I've offered both long and near-term examples that suggest otherwise amidst the responsibilities we accrued post-1945.

I find that regardless of what policies we pursue, there will be easily-identified elements to righteously suggest the same as you- that we don't "play well".

Muslims these days, in general, perceive quite an axe to grind with us. This, however, is nothing recent. At least back to Abdul Gamal Nasser and perhaps as far back as 1948 we've been on a descending glide-path with araby, Islam, or both.

"Though your point is taken, perhaps a time will come when Pakistans international behaviour will be as consequential as the behaviour of the US is now."

Trust me here. You've already reached the main tent.

"And yes, glasses houses is fair, and Pakistan bear resposnibility for their reputation."

Same as America. Oh well. We all must work with the situation we have today knowing that tomorrow offers hope for something better.

 

[muse]

Muslims these days, in general, perceive quite an axe to grind with us. This, however, is nothing recent. At least back to Abdul Gamal Nasser and perhaps as far back as 1948 we've been on a descending glide-path with araby, Islam, or both.

SOme 7 years back I had said that for Muslims the most important question in this era is "what does it mean to be Muslim"? and it seems to me that this is even more resonant than it was 7 years ago.

And on this forum I have said that the US has a structural problem when it come sto dealing with Muslims; The US refuses to acknowledge that Muslims have a stake and a role that that the US is unable to accomodate itself with -- this has already serious consequences for the US as a world power and unless the US has an internal dialogue about it's relations with Muslims that goes beyond Terrorism, this problem the US has with Muslims will only worsen.

See 41 nations in a Muslim country in which not even one muslim country is willing to participate in anything other than humanitarian relief is lost on you -- this disconnect ought to give you sleepless nights, it does me.

If not today, then soon, Dollar ascendancy will be seriously challeneged and effect a "way of life" Americans are used to -- and the political consequences of this development will be either learning to play well, or more external wars. One of these routes will be regrettable.


Pakistan in the main tent? Pakistan is a giant nation state, but a moral midget. You will recall Mr. Mosharraf Zaidi's piece and the following quote :

Not only does Pakistan lack the basic capabilities that modern nation states must posses. It lacks them because it doesn't know why it should possess them.

Pakistan's bureaucracy and parliament are crawling with LSE, Cambridge and Harvard graduates. This is not country that lacks generic capacity. It is a country that lacks a specific and overarching will.

What use are the world's best classrooms, and most revered texts in the absence of a moral compulsion to use them? And how could they ever be used effectively in the absence of an institutional framework to regulate their use?

Main tent? certainly not!

 

[S-2]

"Main tent? certainly not!"

I disagree. Here are your words again-

"...perhaps a time will come when Pakistans international behaviour will be as consequential as the behaviour of the US is now."

If you don't think Pakistani behavior doesn't generate first-tier consequences on the global map, think again.

I can't speak to the magnitude of your morality with the certitude of your own words. Wouldn't try. Not here at least. I can attest that your actions and consequences are of profound interest around the globe. Further, it's unlikely to be temporal.

Pakistan resides in no political back-water and holds a leading role on the world stage right now which is, daily, profound as any.

 

[muse]

You see it in the main tent as a source of problems and worry, whereas I think of the main tent in terms where it can have a meaningful, read positive influence on humanity. As it stands now, it cannot positively influence it's own peoples let alone others.

 

[S-2]

"You see it in the main tent as a source of problems and worry"

Perhaps so. This rolls back to your comment about "midgets", though. You've got "big nation" problems. You've also "big nation" capabilities.

I know this-America didn't start on a path to a great nation until it's sovereignty was challenged by bloody civil war. We had the luxury, I suppose, of doing so in a near vacumn. The world is no longer so large.

I tend to believe that there are crucibles by which nationhood is defined and progresses. A nation, IMHO, exceeds the "state" and is earned-not granted. Perhaps it's only now that Pakistan is "earning" it's nationhood.

A comment from a slightly earlier post of yours-

"See 41 nations in a Muslim country in which not even one muslim country is willing to participate in anything other than humanitarian relief is lost on you -- this disconnect ought to give you sleepless nights, it does me."

Well, Turkey has been a fairly consistent presence in some form or fashion. Naturally, their presence lended only a modest positive influence. Turkic is evidently one of the lesser spoken languages of Afghanistan and certainly not a favored tongue of the Pashtu.

Muslim humanitarian relief, in general, has often appeared an oxymoron. Little explains the neglect with which Palestinians are treated by their own except when it's shooting time with the Jews.

Then they're quite the righteous champions. Were I Palestinian, I'd wish the pox to y'all. Really.

Plenty of muslim dollars to toss around. The causes just seem a tad incendiary and counter-productive.

"If not today, then soon, Dollar ascendancy will be seriously challeneged and effect a "way of life" Americans are used to -- and the political consequences of this development will be either learning to play well, or more external wars."

I don't think our economic system is so easily summed. Neither do I think your crystal-ball gazing is a certainty over the next two decades. Beyond that, who knows? Finally there seems more than a small element of wishful thinking to the premise.

Until there's any real ascendancy by a truly consuming Chinese middle-class that reflects a greater distribution of wealth (and that's been set WAY back here recently), we won't see our leverage disappear with China. Your premise also presumes an inability by America to self-correct or re-invent ourselves when we've never failed in the past to do so effectively.

"SOme 7 years back I had said that for Muslims the most important question in this era is "what does it mean to be Muslim"? and it seems to me that this is even more resonant than it was 7 years ago."

Well, forgive me, but I'd encourage you to think of your religion as a place to go on Friday to cast out the sins of the previous six days but to otherwise not reflect such a celestial pre-occupation.

Our earthly demands are too great. A lil' more of the ol' "...render under Caesar that which is his..." thingy would go a long way.

Then hold Caesar accountable.

 

[muse]

A nation, IMHO, exceeds the "state" and is earned-not granted. Perhaps it's only now that Pakistan is "earning" it's nationhood.

Elegant.

Muslim humanitarian relief, in general, has often appeared an oxymoron

Possibly and not necessarily. Egypt and the UAE are in Afg but they run hospitals and the UAE provide food relief -- They are never attacked by anyone, curious that?

Gaza? If the israeli will allow, much relief can flow into Gaza, but you know this already.

I'd encourage you to think of your religion as a place to go on Friday to cast out the sins of the previous six days but to otherwise not reflect such a celestial pre-occupation

.

Much like a immoral Jew is not a jew, a immoral, unethical muslim is a abomination - and this has nothing to do with ceasar, it's all internal. The external comes from the internal -- much of Muslim experience has been going the other way.

 

[S-2]

"Gaza? If the israeli will allow, much relief can flow into Gaza, but you know this already..."

Responsibility, remember?

Cast your perspective a bit further back than three-six weeks. Tunis, Lebanon, Jordan, Kuwait. There's more relevance to my comment than a topical survey of Gaza's entry points.

It may be fairly said that the palestinians never miss an opportunity to miss an opportunity but when it comes to tangible aid and a preparedness to accept their diaspora within araby (or even the damned Levant), the same might be said of the arabs specifically and Islam generally.

The Palestinians have been poorly served.

You are very correct on the Egyptians. I had forgotten about seeing this recently-

Egyptian Field Hospital Re-Opens-CJTF 101

I didn't know about the UAE but it makes perfect sense given their past recognition of the taliban. Thanks.

 

[Flintlock]

Justice Taliban style...

Suspected Taliban kill two women in Pakistan

Suspected Taliban militants shot dead two women and dumped their burqa-clad bodies by a roadside in a northwest Pakistan town, officials said Friday.

It was not immediately clear who killed the women in the town of Kohat, but a local security official said Taliban militants were likely responsible.

Police official Riaz Khan said the slain women had a "bad reputation" and about a year ago were warned by people to abandon their "immoral ways."

The bullet-riddled bodies of the women, about 25 and 40 years old, were dumped on a roadside. A burqa is a head-to-toe garment worn by women in deeply conservative Muslim areas.

Nobody claimed responsibility but Taliban militants have been carrying out extra-judicial killings intended to protect honour and the name of Islam in Pakistan's northwest.

Residents heard gunshots overnight but the law-and-order situation in Kohat is such that streets are deserted after sunset in the garrison town, which his the main base of the Pakistani army in the northwest.

Kohat borders the restive town of Hangu and semi-autonomous Bajaur tribal district, a flashpoint for sectarian and militant violence.
Suspected Taliban kill two women in Pakistan- Hindustan Times

 

[zhero]

Interesting to see the US vs. Muslims debate.

Can the muslim nations be treated as one 'bloc'? Should any discussion/debate be done with the ummah (instead of nation states)? Will the nation states and their institutions (PA for example) 'listen' to the ummah?

Are most Islamic states in 'limbo' between the caliphate and modern nation states ("what does it mean to be Muslim")?

As far as I know, the State Dept. doesn't have a 'Muslim' section (like a 'South Asia' section or 'Far East section' etc...). Should it start having one?

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Muslim nations cannot be treated as one bloc, nor will Muslim nation necessarily listen to advice or adopt policies, merely becasue the 'Ummah' is the perceive platform.

The Muslim world is diverse politically and ideologically - the Muslim street can be different from Muslim governments.

That said, there are certain issues that resonate across the Muslim world, and shape perceptions and can influence governments (when they aren't suppressing the people like Hosni Mubarak and the Saudis - and the suppression itself can be said to be the result of a chasm between people and government).

Those issues, such as the Palestinian Israeli conflict, interventionist US polices etc. are what need to be addressed if the attempt is to 'reach out'. I'd say the window for 'debating' is over, tangible movement away from the hypocritical support/acceptance of atrocities and occupation in certain 'hot spots', and a sincere effort to resolve issues is what will change perceptions.

 

[zhero]

Precisely. That's why I mentioned 'in limbo'.

The million dollar question is whether we are seeing a trend towards the Caliphate, or the concept of nation states (if such a trend can be discernable!).

...in fact I'm curious as to which 'factors' would/should be weighed in if one were to design an index for this..

 

[TruthSeeker]

It seems very improbable that the Muslim community could ever be united by more that a UN or (OIC) type debating society. Even Islam is practiced so differently across the Muslim world that Islam itself is not unifying in detail. Unless there can be a common language (English?) and free movement of peoples among territories of the the so-called Muslim Nation, it will not and can not behave as an economic or political unit. IMHO

 

[muse]

Treating Muslim countries as a block? What I was referring to was paying attention to ideas that are animating public opinion among muslim majorities:

What Muslims Think

 

[RescueRanger]

The Federal Investigation Agency has foiled multiple attempts to hack its computer networks which occurred within minutes of the Interior Ministry's disclosure regarding its findings on the Mumbai attacks.

The hacking attempts occurred last Thursday, the day Prime Minister's advisor on Interior Rehman Malik held a press conference and laid bare Islamabad's findings into Mumbai terror links.

Since then, the FIA's cybercrime wing has recorded several more attempts by hackers to infiltrate the Agency's networks which hosts sensitive information.

Agency officials are said to have be taken aback by the swiftness of the attacks.

Sources claim that the investigators have managed to locate the origin of the cyber attack, adding that the attempted operation was launched beyond Pakistan's borders.

It is also believed that a number of such attempts are motivated by the curiosity to find the list of questions forwarded by Islamabad to Indian authorities for further information to the Mumbai saga.

The investigations meanwhile are trying to ascertain if the attempt was an isolated event or something more complex, following various bids to hack into its databases.

They are not willing to disclose any further details about the hackers or point of origin citing the sensitivity of the matter.

The FIA's computers are host to a variety of sensitive information regarding banned outfits, militants arrested in connection with various terror attacks, counter-insurgency operations, etc.

http://dawn.net/wps/wcm/connect/Daw...tempts-by-hackers-to-penetrate-fia-network-yn