Abandoning status as "Islamic Republic"

[Zibago]

Chalo bhai aap py to pdf k pseudo molvis ny attack kr dia hy..BAs ye hi to waja hy...mazhab k bary main to bamaksad baat bhi bardsht ni hoti in sy

Merey ustaad ji Hazrat Hasn Nisar farmatey hain Pakistan mein koi dhang ka banda paida nahe hua jis par kufar ka fatwa na laga ho

Isko aizaz samjho

 

[Ray_of_Hope]

Merey ustaad ji Hazrat Hasn Nisar farmatey hain Pakistan mein koi dhang ka banda paida nahe hua jis par kufar ka fatwa na laga ho

Isko aizaz samjho

Ham ny islam ko nehayaat hi sakht,pecheeda or tang bna dia hy..
Kisi ny kia khoob kaha hy,"Daira e ISlam ko itna chota bhi mat karo k aik din tamaam umat hi daira e Islam sy bahir khari ho"..

 

[Solomon2]

The more reason to follow shariah coz none of us want the same fate as ottoman empire

You do not consider that the Ottomans may have suffered the fate they did because they adhered to sharia for too long? Why?

 

[T-123456]

Why do u value country over religion? Where is this notion that valuing country over everything (nationalism) is something admirable , coming from? The very notion of nation-state first emerged in the west. Its coming from the west which has a superiority complex regarding their culture just like the pre-islamic pagan arabs who judged people based on tribes and ethnicity. Why do u believe it any way? Is it because you think that since the west believes in it and whatever the west champions must to good? Their beliefs and cultural standards doesn't even have a foundation. Such beliefs are nothing but conjecture and societal norms and as such inherently flawed. But islam is based on firm foundation? U value the religion/way of life send by the Creator of the heavens and the earth. How crazy it is to be believing in something else other than what the Creator of the heavens and the earth revealed. What a sad state of affairs you people are in.


Your understanding of secularism means that u don't even have an iota of idea abt secularism. Secularism was born out of apathy towards religion. It was born because of liberalism's tussle with christianity. Liberalism has all the features of a new religion. It has its own set of beliefs , methodologies , and laws and even sects/groups. Secularism is governance with laws derived from liberal socio-political beliefs. It doesn't separate religion from state , rather it replaces all religion with liberalism which rules the state. Secularism is the epitomization of tyranny .


Also by espousing secularism you are mistakenly conflating islam with Christianity (which was corrupted my man over time). Can you contemplate that you are actually questioning the fact that Islam is a divinely revealed religion? Due to your ignorance abt Islam , you are mistakenly viewing the muslim world from a liberal western perspective and coming to absurdly wrong conclusions.


Islam doesn't allow separation of religion from state. And calling islamic laws draconian , is blasphemy. DO u have the conscience , knowledge , and understanding to even contemplate that?





Your inferiority complex and ignorance is glaring here. DO u question these notions of gender equality , religious freedom , labor rights etc? or just accept them at face value because its coming from the west? Why do u take these notions as something good? Muslim countries can never ever compete with western countries in these indicators until or unless muslims give up Islam. All these western notions of rights , freedom and equality is based on western beliefs of liberalism and thus antithetical to Islam. Western notions of human rights blatantly oppose Sharia. It is not only antithetical to Islam but is antithetical to every other non-western societies and culture. These western beliefs r based on conjecture and flawed societal norms of the west. You r actually judging your country and society based on their standards , terms and conditions without even realizing that. You are an epitome of intellectually colonized liberal.

It also proves that you are ranting against islamic laws based on sheer ignorance. U have made up your mind that u like western values of liberalism and now trying to force your beliefs on the whole country. Now that's intolerance and extremism coupled with ignorance. Why should your beliefs and values rule over the rest?






If u r referring to the western imposed reforms of mid 19th century (tanzimat reforms) , then that was one of the primary factors of the collapse of the ottoman empire. If you force a lion to eat grass it will die.



Ataturk banned Azan in arabic , changed your script to latin, banned the fez and closed madrassas. The whole world knows it.

Jinnah was a human and thus would inherently make mistakes and he having good views of ataturk was one such mistake. Even so unlike ataturk , he was pragmatic and tolerant enough to realize that secularism doesn't work and as such he didn't want secularism in such a diverse country like PAK. History is proof of that.


Islamic political forces never ever ruled PAK. PAK has always been ruled by secularists who also turned out to be ruthless dacoits and corrupt zealots. Islamic law in PAK is only on paper while in reality its a secular state..................a good example of secular muslim state i must say.




DO u realize that the laws you quoted are Islamic laws based on Quran and Sunnah. These laws are ordained by Allah (swt) as a mercy to mankind. No sane muslim would dare slander Islamic law if he/she has a conscience and the most basic knowledge about his/her religion.

And are you putting "western human rights" as an argument against Islamic law ? You should know that "Universal declaration of human rights" is antithetical to islam. What makes western values universal? Why do u even consider that universal? The only answer can be that you have accepted western values as your own i.e you have been converted to liberalism mind , body and soul.

Btw due to this liberal imperialism of "universal human rights" , do the west dare poke their noses into affairs of muslims , carpet bomb lands and do regime change. IF u believe in western human rights , you should have no problem changing anti-terror laws as per EU demands and allow the secular PKK pillage turkey.




What would you call an mathematician who does not know and also doesn't believe when told that 2+2=4? Btw don't get me wrong. I am NOT saying that you are not a muslim.

Lets make it short,

For me Sharia Law is outdated,just like the laws of the Christians,Jews and all other religions.
Be a Muslim,be it for yourself,do your duties towards Allah but who are you(not personal) to decide how people have to live their lives?
We are not living in the times of the prophet,the world has changed,evolved.
Why do we have to go backward when the whole world is going forward?
You cant live under Sharia Law in this day and age,impossible.
You can if you live in a village somewhere remote where everyone is from the same religion having the same values.
Cant you be a Muslim when you live by the Laws which have been adapted to the times we live in?
About my identity,im a Turk first,i am a Muslim but not every Muslim is my brother,are you going to tell me that the Muslim who kills your kin/family/countryman is your brother?
I do not care for Muslim unity because the most harm to my people came from fellow Muslims,be it direct or inderict.
I believe in human rights,Insaniyat has nothing to do with being western or eastern.
The west poke their noses into affairs of ''Muslims'' because we ''dumb'' Muslims let them do that,its our fault(when you take an objective look at it,you will see that im right).
Finally,its up to you what to believe and how to live but you cannot tell me(not personal) how to live or what to believe,if im wrong in the way i see things,thats between me and my god which is how it should be.

 

[Namer Afzal Khan]

You do not consider that the Ottomans may have suffered the fate they did because they adhered to sharia for too long? Why?

Shariah was their strength. If shariah was the real problem then they would not have survived for so many years

 

[Solomon2]

Shariah was their strength. If shariah was the real problem then they would not have survived for so many years

You are inventing. You haven't studied any Ottoman history at all. What right do you have to insist that others believe in your pronouncements rather than spurn you?

 

[Namer Afzal Khan]

You are inventing. You haven't studied any Ottoman history at all. What right do you have to insist that others believe in your pronouncements rather than spurn you?

I can't talk about them just because the answer you want from me is not coming from my side. So chill

 

[A.P. Richelieu]

Shariah was their strength. If shariah was the real problem then they would not have survived for so many years

Islamic Clerics worked against adopting modern military weapons, basically rendering Turkey's
army ineffective.
In the end, Turkey had to be defended by England and France during the Crimean War.

Today, many muslims believe that it is enough the study the Qur'an and there
is no need to study science. Fortunately other muslims disagree.

 

[T-123456]

Islamic Clerics worked against adopting modern military weapons, basically rendering Turkey's
army ineffective.
In the end, the Otoman Empire(corrected it for you) had to be defended by England and France during the Crimean War.

Not just the clerics,other reasons were that the Sultans were to busy with art poetry and women instead of state affairs.

 

[Namer Afzal Khan]

Islamic Clerics worked against adopting modern military weapons, basically rendering Turkey's
army ineffective.
In the end, Turkey had to be defended by England and France during the Crimean War.

Today, many muslims believe that it is enough the study the Qur'an and there
is no need to study science. Fortunately other muslims disagree.

I don't know much about ottoman history. From what you are telling it seems to me that the clerics at that time were not well equipped with knowledge of the Quran. Nowhere in the Quran we are forbidden to study science. Those who think so are just ignorant who follow some mufti's written books more than Quran.

 

[T-123456]

Shariah was their strength. If shariah was the real problem then they would not have survived for so many years

Their strength was diversity,multiculturism,the right people at the right places.

Today, many muslims believe that it is enough the study the Qur'an and there
is no need to study science. Fortunately other muslims disagree.

In the Middle ages,the Muslims were far ahead of rest of the world n science but some Islamists today dont want to see that.

 

[M.AsfandYar]

You are inventing. You haven't studied any Ottoman history at all. What right do you have to insist that others believe in your pronouncements rather than spurn you?

You could do the same. Have a look at the reigns Of Murad II to Sulieman's reigns and their Laws then Talk.

 

[Erroroverload]

Maybe it is time to abandon our status as the "Islamic" "Republic" of Pakistan, and return to our secular roots which were planned by the fathers of the nation. Not a literal name change, but Pakistani people need to abandon the "Islamic Republic" ideology. Pakistan was created because Jinnah and co were afraid that in a Hindu dominated Country, there would always be episodes of violence and disagreement between the two chief religions, as Muslims of India had grown to become an almost different culture. Thus Pakistan was created so that the Muslims and Hindus can live in peace alone. Pakistan was created because the Muslim League felt the new "Hindus"tan would not be secular enough, not because it wouldn't be "Islamic" enough. Do we want to end up like the Middle East?

Also, it is embarrassing how many people believe in ridiculously stupid Jewish conspiracy theories, and hate Jews so much without having ever having seen one in their entire lives. Can a mature, mentally healthy human being actually believe such far fetched stories? Is this the result of one or two generations of cousin-cousin breeding? The reality is every year hundreds, if not thousands of non-Muslims are persecuted and harassed all along the country, but our sympathies are only for Palestine and non-existent dead Muslims in Burma and India. Isn't it ridiculous how people in Pakistan want women to "cover" themselves up, yet Google confirms the most number of pornographic searches are from Pakistan. Google also confirms that South Asia ranks the highest in bestiality searches.

Now people are going to be blame me for having such a negative view of my home country, but I am telling the truth, and even if the truth is not something that was told to us through biased text books. Media doesn't report such incidents because they are more focused on who Imran Khan wants to sleep with, and they don't have time for a family of murdered Ahmaids, Shias, Chrisitans, Hindus, etc. But of course it is all Mossad's, RAW's and CIA's fault, because they have so much time and resources to waste on us. (Well, RAW is an exception I guess. They all have the time in the world for their little Eastern Sibling)


P.S Removing it won't really affect the economical or the political situation. It would improve the social condition.

(NON PAKISTANIS KINDLY DON'T VOTE ON THE POLL)

Your opinion is not good as it looks like. It is like, you make a sinful extremist molvi to shave off its beard, the beard is no more now but the extremism is still there. Abandoning Islamic status will not do any thing until unless the sectarianism created by our mullahs at grass root level is not addressed. our society is being divided by our so called religious and political leaders. The element to listen and bear others opinion is is no more there in our madrasas and as a whole in our society our sects are labeling each other as Kafirs. THE PROBLEM IS EXTREMISM, NOT THE BEARD.abandoning the Islamic status will do nothing except to put a smile on some Israelis.

 

[khanz]

education is key once people are literate and educated everything else including extremism will improve pakistan literacy rate is amongst the worst in the subcontinent .

 

[ShoutB]

I don't think people like hafeez sayeed, and the Military whose economy and power play runs on religion will allow it anyway.