Ababeel Missile Tested

[Bilal.]

Me myself.

Is there any difference in Shaheen 2 or Shaheen 3 rocket motors? Both are 1.4m, L-SpaB-140 derivatives.

 

[Bilal.]

Source?

Same was said by @The Deterrent long time ago. A very knowledgeable member, unfortunately not active anymore.

I meant to refer to the 3rd and 4th stage where it gets much narrower (1.2m), while Ababeel remains at 1.4m throughout (except where the MIRV bus and payload fairing begin).

True about the payload capacity to orbit part, I meant to convey that the base stages and consequently 3rd stage of Ababeel is built to boost much more than 200kg. Assuming a bare minimum of 300kg per RV, that puts the total payload (including 3xRVs, MIRV-bus) to anywhere between 1000-1500kg.

Also, 3rd stage is not solid-fueled as per above sketch. Similarly the claim for same motors for KZ-1A and Ababeel/S-II/S-III is shady, its not possible that China used a 30 years old motor design in a modern day SLV.

 

[Telescopic Sight]

you people have adopted to the habit of running after the crow without checking on your ear

WHAT . DOES. THIS. MEAN ????

WHAT . DOES. THIS. PERSON. SMOKE ????

 

[NooriNuth]

Is there any difference in Shaheen 2 or Shaheen 3 rocket motors? Both are 1.4m, L-SpaB-140 derivatives.

Shaheen 2 isn't 1.4m it's thinner.
Shaheen 3 is wider. It was a new Motor.
All the other systems were tested on Shaheen-1A, including the warhead design,which was a new design built for S-3 and now being MIRV in Ababeel. 3x

 

[Cookie Monster]

Next to show case ICBM to maintain credible defence.

Before that a nuclear powered sub large enough to carry an ICBM(or rather a SLBM) would be required...at least 2. Otherwise it's pointless to have ICBMs if they are to be pointed at India from Pakistan.

Only from a nuclear sub sitting somewhere far from Pakistan with SLBMs that have enough range to strike India...would give the next level of credible deterrence. Since in that case even if India manages to neutralize Pak's land based nukes...it would not be able to escape a nuclear Armageddon.

 

[Hakikat ve Hikmet]

Before that a nuclear powered sub large enough to carry an ICBM(or rather a SLBM) would be required...at least 2. Otherwise it's pointless to have ICBMs if they are to be pointed at India from Pakistan.

Only from a nuclear sub sitting somewhere far from Pakistan with SLBMs that have enough range to strike India...would give the next level of credible deterrence. Since in that case even if India manages to neutralize Pak's land based nukes...it would not be able to escape a nuclear Armageddon.

Seeing what's happening inside the Gaza Strip nothing should be off the table...

 

[Sayfullah]

What you criticize as us being "colonized", it is actually us being deft in the current geo-political arena. As the only Muslim country to have this capability, the West, Israel and India are always looking for ways to corner Pakistan wrt our nuclear capability. I.e. find any way to neuter Pakistan's weapons program. Pakistan has NO need for an ICBM program at this time so why should Pakistan stupidly announce its intent for something that yields nothing for Pakistan and only leads to even more eyes and efforts against our nuclear program?

Going from an MRBM to an ICBM is a technical challenge which we can manage. The bigger question is, is there a need? Currently no. Pakistan may even have this capability in store but has no intention to announce it.

Given the situation around the Middle East, I believe Iran, KSA and Turkey should fast-track their efforts and get nuclear weapons capability. This is the only way to get Israel to talk peace. Nothing else will work.

I'd take brains.

Allah ka shukar adaa karro k saray mashriq-e-wusta ki tarha, sitting ducks nahi hain hum. Alhamdolillah. India/US/Israel kutch bhi karlain, jitnay bhi Rafale India ko de dain, Pakistan is here to stay iA. Maeeshat/economy ko recover karain, awaam ki taleem aur sehat per kharchaa barhain aur phir Inshallah hope for the best.


For what? Kiss ka shikaar karna hai ICBM se? The old adage of "josh say nahi, hosh say" applies in these matters. Knee-jerk actions are the last thing needed. For the reasons you are suggesting this, it can be accomplished through other ways without bringing direct attention on Pakistan. The less said the better.

Israel is our enemy.
Al Aqsa defence requires us to have an ICBM.
Additionally, Pakistan should have ICBM’s in secret ready for any misadventure by anyone. If someday for some reason west has turned against you, you won’t have time to develop an ICBM then. Being prepared is important.
Brains is having a few ready for any possibility but not publicly announcing it.

Because Pakistan is not in a direct conflict with Israel.

Every Muslim is.
If you don’t think so you’re just delusional.
Zionists are no one’s friends.

Jewish Talmud:
Even the best of Goyim should all be killed.
(Soferim 15)

 

[LeGenD]

Israel is our enemy.
Al Aqsa defence requires us to have an ICBM.
Additionally, Pakistan should have ICBM’s in secret ready for any misadventure by anyone. If someday for some reason west has turned against you, you want have time to develop an ICBM then. Being prepared is important.
Brains is having a few ready for any possibility but not publicly announcing it.


Every Muslim is.
If you don’t think so you’re just delusional.
Zionists are no one’s friends.

Jewish Talmud:
Even the best of Goyim should all be killed.
(Soferim 15)
View attachment 963334

Shaheen-III can reach Israel.

But Israel has advanced BMD capability in place, not an easy target to overwhelm. This is the problem of getting involved in an arms race. You develop something, others come up with a counter to it. The cycle continues. It will never be enough and Pakistan has more pressing concerns lately. One must have focus and realistic expectations.

Israel has not done anything to Pakistan, India mostly. Foreign affairs are not conducted on the basis of Jewish Talmud.

Pakistan should focus on developing an SLV and launching its own satellites. This capability will be helpful for both military and scientific applications.

 

[White and Green with M/S]

Israel is our enemy.
Al Aqsa defence requires us to have an ICBM.
Additionally, Pakistan should have ICBM’s in secret ready for any misadventure by anyone. If someday for some reason west has turned against you, you want have time to develop an ICBM then. Being prepared is important.
Brains is having a few ready for any possibility but not publicly announcing it.

For Israel we don't need an ICBM but IRBM is enough for Israel range of 3000 km or more

 

[HGV]

The diameter looks too small to be IRBM (although it is very long). What's the range?

Larger diameter solid fuel engines are tricky to master.

 

[LeGenD]

The diameter looks too small to be IRBM (although it is very long). What's the range?

Larger diameter solid fuel engines are tricky to master.

Ababeel = 2200 KM

This might be intermediate solution. The warhead can be placed on a wider or bigger missile.

 

[HGV]

Ababeel = 2200 KM

This might be intermediate solution. The warhead can be placed on a wider or bigger missile.

What features does it have to evade BMD? It allegedly has MIRV warheads, has this capability been proven by Pakistan (I am sceptical)?

 

[TheSolution]

What features does it have to evade BMD? It allegedly has MIRV warheads, has this capability been proven by Pakistan (I am sceptical)?

US intelligence officials have confirmed it

Pakistan Tests New Ballistic Missile Capable of Carrying Multiple Nuclear Warheads

Pakistan has completed the first flight test of the Ababeel surface-to-surface ballistic missile.

thediplomat.com

And Pakistan's official military PR account

https://twitter.com/x/status/823850558767382528

 

[LeGenD]

What features does it have to evade BMD? It allegedly has MIRV warheads, has this capability been proven by Pakistan (I am sceptical)?

This missile is in development and testing phase. Not much is disclosed to the public but related information in here (click).

First test = 2017
Second test = 2023

MiRV capability is not easy to develop and master but Chinese input is involved.

BMD evasion is not a simple matter - it comes down to where the target is located and what type of defenses are in place to protect the target. If the target is not well-protected then it is easy to engage and destroy of-course. MiRV capability have its benefits though. Single missile can be used to deliver more warheads at a particular target that is difficult to neutralize with a single warhead (i.e., more interceptors needed to neutralize the threat). Alternatively, each warhead can be programmed to engage a different target in a particular sector. Ababeel does not have to be First Use option though, other ballistic missiles (and even cruise missiles) can be used beforehand on a number of targets to see where Ababeel has better use in war. Indian defenses have capability gaps that can be exploited in this manner.

India is a big country and not easy to shield on the whole, India has not developed robust defenses (mostly experiments). Better protected sectors of India can be softened with a barrage of missiles, if necessary. Ababeel make this task easier in distant locations inside India. It will not be surprising to see a number of Pakistani ballistic missiles finding their mark inside India.

 

[HGV]

This missile is in development and testing phase. Not much is disclosed to the public but related information in here (click).

First test = 2017
Second test = 2023

MiRV capability is not easy to develop and master but Chinese input is involved.

BMD evasion is not a simple matter - it comes down to where the target is located and what type of defenses are in place to protect the target. If the target is not well-protected then it is easy to engage and destroy of-course. MiRV capability have its benefits though. Single missile can be used to deliver more warheads at a particular target that is difficult to neutralize with a single warhead (i.e., more interceptors needed to neutralize the threat). Alternatively, each warhead can be programmed to engage a different target in a particular sector. Ababeel does not have to be the first use option either, other ballistic missiles (and even cruise missiles) can be used beforehand on a number of targets to see where Ababeel has better use in war. Indian defenses have capability gaps that can be exploited in this manner.

Indian defenses are not robust on the whole, India is a big country and not easy to shield. Better protected sectors can be softened with a barrage of missiles, if necessary. Ababeel make this task easier in distant locations inside India.

Thanks. Such a long time between the two tests is a bit odd. I would venture to say that MIRV capability has not yet been demonstrated and that further tests will be required. As you suggest, MIRV technology is very difficult to master and only 5 countries are confirmed to possess MIRV capability (USA, Russia, China, UK and France).

By BMD evasion I was referring to things like terminal velocity, ballistic trajectory, decoys, manoeuvrability etc. Nonetheless, solid fuel (quicker to prepare for launch) + mobile launcher (harder to track) + MIRV (can contain decoys) = a potent missile.