A world without the West? Not yet -- and maybe not ever

[xuxu1457]

If the world without human, the earth will be happy

 

[kawaraj]

Except that nearly all of the BRICS covet a special relationship with the United States, have development aspirations that can only be achieved with Western technology and investment, have security concerns they do not want to put at risk through confrontation with Washington, and quietly understand that strategic and economic rivalries within their grouping may be more salient than the ties that bind them together.

There's no such thing as western technology. It's always tech of human civilization.

Importantly history has seen enough of rise and subdue of empires, USA no spare. Regardlessly there were always situations as you highlight.

 

[Okemos]

Wasted 5 precious minutes of my life! The whole article sounds like a child screaming to other kids, "look at me!" lol

 

[neehar]

The squawking from certain haters does not change the truth of the matter.

theres only one thing which made u so powerful u know whats that??? demand for your dollar...and if the world decides to ignore it then ur collapse would be a disaster heard of stagflation??u know why??because ur govt has printed dollars enough for the entire world to use..if they choose not to trade with dollar collapses.imf,world bank are run in the direction of west so trade still runs on ur dollar..brics is estimated to overcome the entire gdp of west by next decade imagine if all that trade is done in a currency other than dollar..BRICS is precisely going to do that..BRICS 2013 agenda mainly is about creating a common bank..so stop dreaming and open ur eyes

^^^ Ridiculous. China is only gaining prosperity today because it has customers in the USA and the EU to buy its goods. Only if, and, when, "Asia" or "China" can transform its economies into domestically-oriented consumer based growth will it have a prayer of not needing the crutch of Western markets and demand. Good luck. It certainly won't happen in the next twenty years. Probably not ever given the demographic realities of the "one-child" policy.....

its not that only china is gaining prosperity..u.s is equally getting benefited from china..forgot about those 25% of ur bonds bought by china..and remittances sent by ur companies from china ??

 

[Meengla]

A lot of people confuse 'West' with the imperial drives of the NeoCons and other white-race based endeavors. I think those who do so are just as 'wrong' as the imperialists from the 'West'.
The Western Civilization should not be thought along racial or geographical lines but along the lines of humanism: The 'West' is an attainment of humanity--flawed with its destructive consumerism and with its internally and externally feeding NeoCons--but it is also the highest attained level of humanity.
Let's not get carried away in our non-Western reactions. We are, above all, all human beings.

 

[OrionHunter]

If Western Europe can decline, so can America.

It's not "BRICS" that will do it. It's mostly China and a bit of Russia. South Africa and India are still irrelevant. Brazil will become a real rival to the USA only after USA declines (because China will oust its influence from East Asia).

China is on the wane, being artificially propped up by exports to the EU and the US of A. It's GDP has nose dived from 10% a couple of years back to a paltry 7% at present and further heading downhill.

Without a sound domestic consumption base, China will forever be tied to EUs and America's apron strings. Without them China is just another third world country. American bonds with China are not even worth the paper they're written on as China has very few options for investing the bulk of its large foreign exchange holdings out of U.S. Treasury securities.

 

[Solomon2]

If Western Europe can decline, so can America.

The relative decline of America vs. the rest of the world has been happening for a long time and isn't unexpected. After WWII Europe was destroyed and America accounted for 50% of the planet's goods! Of course, as Europe and Japan rebuilt and the rest of the world developed the U.S. would decline.

"Talk of a new international order anchored by the BRICS is just that - talk. The two largest emerging powers in BRICS - Brazil and India - desire modifications to the current order; they do not seek to scrap it.

As China passes the Lewis Point its economic and political imperatives will change quickly and it will have many choices to make. So the real question is, now that China is resuming its previous position as the greatest economic power on the planet, will it seek to keep the structure of the world America helped fashion - the U.N., W.H.O., W.T.O., etc. - that has served China so well, or will China try to break it apart? China's re-assertion of old claims in the S. China Sea does not inspire my confidence.

 

[HongWu]

As China passes the Lewis Point its economic and political imperatives will change quickly and it will have many choices to make. So the real question is, now that China is resuming its previous position as the greatest economic power on the planet, will it seek to keep the structure of the world America helped fashion - the U.N., W.H.O., W.T.O., etc. - that has served China so well, or will China try to break it apart? China's re-assertion of old claims in the S. China Sea does not inspire my confidence.

Obviously USA is not going to share supremacy over East Asia with China, so China will struggle for it with military might just as we struggled for our soveignty with military might since the founding of PRC in 1949. You have no confidence because China is grabbing South China Sea / East China Sea whether you like it or not. Live with it and be happy we aren't heading to the Carribean.

 

[Solomon2]

You have no confidence because China is grabbing South China Sea / East China Sea whether you like it or not.

No, I mean I have no confidence that China will retain its previous commitments to the international order rather than, as you say, "grabbing" more for itself simply because it now feels powerful enough to do so.

Obviously USA is not going to share supremacy over East Asia with China, so China will struggle for it with military might -

You think China's Greater East Asia Co-Prosperity Sphere will be any more successful than Japan's? Indeed, is it really the U.S. you have to worry about or the resurgence of China's neighbors as they seek to rebuild a military might they haven't needed for generations? Rather than a big China surrounded by fawning friends you're creating a big China surrounded by enemies, yes? How much sense does that make?

Live with it and be happy we aren't heading to the Carribean.

China already controls the Panama Canal, yes?

 

[HongWu]

No, I mean I have no confidence that China will retain its previous commitments to the international order rather than, as you say, "grabbing" more for itself simply because it now feels powerful enough to do so.

When USA accepts China's territorial integrity including South China Sea and East China Sea, then we can talk about an international order. Until then, messing with our territorial integrity means at best cold war and perhaps hot war. Yes, before we played down our territorial integrity because we were weak. Now we are strong so your days of dictating to us are over. Stubborn refusal to recognize this will mean continued cold war and China is ready for any scenario.

You think China's Greater East Asia Co-Prosperity Sphere will be any more successful than Japan's? Indeed, is it really the U.S. you have to worry about or the resurgence of China's neighbors as they seek to rebuild a military might they haven't needed for generations? Rather than a big China surrounded by fawning friends you're creating a big China surrounded by enemies, yes? How much sense does that make?

China's Great East Asia Co-Prosperity Sphere existed for 1000 years. Enemies are only there temporarily until we disable their military power. After that, they become our "friends." For now USA is stopping us from running them over, but the balance of power continues to shift and eventually you will be better off dividing the Pacific with us and abandoning your East Asian protectorates to China for safe-keeping.

China already controls the Panama Canal, yes?

That's just a rumor from hysterical neo-cons.

 

[Solomon2]

When USA accepts China's territorial integrity including South China Sea and East China Sea, then we can talk about an international order...China's Great East Asia Co-Prosperity Sphere existed for 1000 years -

As previously discussed, as far as the rest of the world is concerned China surrendered its claims when it signed LOST. The resurrection of these claims also resurrects memories of previous occasions China invoked "unequal treaties" to justify initiating hostilities. Thus China creates its own anti-Chinese coalition of surrounding states. Pakistan will be your only friend then - and of only limited utility in evading trade blockades and retaliations.

Stubborn refusal to recognize this will mean continued cold war and China is ready for any scenario.

You're forgetting China's key weakness here: Bureaucrats who are willing to tell their superiors anything, including avoiding inconvenient truths. How can you be certain the confidence you have is really merited?

China's Great East Asia Co-Prosperity Sphere existed for 1000 years. Enemies are only there temporarily until we disable their military power. After that, they become our "friends."

Oh, so the Mongols are Chinese now, are they?

 

[HongWu]

As previously discussed, as far as the rest of the world is concerned China surrendered its claims when it signed LOST. The resurrection of these claims also resurrects memories of previous occasions China invoked "unequal treaties" to justify initiating hostilities. Thus China creates its own anti-Chinese coalition of surrounding states. Pakistan will be your only friend then - and of only limited utility in evading trade blockades and retaliations.

Once China grabs our territories including South China Sea and East China Sea by force, then we'll sign more treaties legalizing our conquest, obviously! I am hardly concerned about surrounding states. We can vaporize them anytime if USA was not in the way.

You're forgetting China's key weakness here: Bureaucrats who are willing to tell their superiors anything, including avoiding inconvenient truths. How can you be certain the confidence you have is really merited?

We'll prove it on the battlefield

Let's see what "key weakness" you think we have

Oh, so the Mongols are Chinese now, are they?

Mongols view Han Chinese as unrepentent invaders and rulers since the Ming Dynasty. Most ethnic Mongols live in Inner Mongolia as Chinese citizens.