A trilateral aimed at Pakistan

[wiseone2]

Very good point -- to answer the questions:

1. Imagine India did not exist -- where would that leave Iran and Pakistan: they not natural rivals, and actually have supported each other during crises.
2. Imagine would Iran want to get into hostility with its nuclear armed neighbor over far away India (?) -- the Mollahs are misogynistis but not stupid.

So again:

mmm, Not so much I'd say, Chabahar:
1. is not a Natural deep sea port
-- OK you answered this -- the goals of Chabahar are rather limited
2. to have any value for India it requires a stable Afghanistan
-- still open -- either Pakistan and Iran can keep Afghanistan unstable (Iran projects power all the way to Syria!!!)
3. to have any value for Afghanistan it requires a stable Afghanistan
-- still open -- either Pakistan and Iran can keep Afghanistan unstable (Iran projects power all the way to Syria!!!)
4. to have any value for Iran it requires Chabahar not to get lapped up in the India/Pak strategic competition
-- still open (the same way Pakistan chose not to participate in the Saudi vs Iran competition)
5. Iran will still need to use Dubai because it's not a natural deep sea port
-- OK you answered this -- the goals of Chabahar are rather limited
6. The Delaram-Zaranj highway runs through the Taliban heartland
-- still open -- either Pakistan and Iran can keep Afghanistan unstable (Iran projects power all the way to Syria!!!)

So where were we?

What makes you think Iran and Pakistan are not rivals in Central Asia ? To the degree you do not see an active rivalry it is due to the fact both of them have bigger rivals to fight.

 

[pakistani342]

What makes you think Iran and Pakistan are not rivals in Central Asia ? To the degree you do not see an active rivalry it is due to the fact both of them have bigger rivals to fight.

True ... but not to the extent of say India/Pak or Indian/China

Remember Iran/Pakistan once considered a confederation (like structure) with Turkey.

Another way to think about it is: whether the boys sitting in GHQ would **feel** the same towards Iran as they do towards India.

.

 

[Leviza]

When was the last time Afghanistan handed over any hiding TTP members to Pakistan ? never ...

Afghanistan always provoked firing on the international border and we had to shut it down

Afghanistan, wants Pakistan to help her in all possible ways but let indians have 17 or 18 consulates on its border which creates alot of problems in Pakistan ? did Afghan gov took any actions NO

Afghan people and gov need to understand, Pakistan can work with them but they have to deliver as well ...

 

[wiseone2]

True ... but not to the extent of say India/Pak or Indian/China

Remember Iran/Pakistan once considered a confederation (like structure) with Turkey.

Another way to think about it is: whether the boys sitting in GHQ would **feel** the same towards Iran as they do towards India.

.

it is not just pakistan. also iran is more interested in challenging saudi arabia

 

[pakistani342]

it is not just pakistan. also iran is more interested in challenging saudi arabia

Yes but that does not translate into a 1-on-1 rivalry with Pakistan as in India/Pakistan or even India/China. The boys in GHQ (like most Pakistanis, that includes Sunnis) view Iran through rose colored (and naive) glasses.

The Iran/Pakistan equation can be compared to Iran/Turkey -- competitors -- uneasy neighbors sometimes, but there is no civilizational issue between the two peoples.

Although the affinity that Pakistanis feel for Iran is not reciprocated by Iranians -- there is no visceral hostility amongst Iranians for Pakistanis and vice-a-versa.

If you want to compare symbols: There are no equivalents of: RSS, Indus river water treaty, partition riots, 1971, Kashmir, Modi, Gujrat Riots for the Pakistani people in Iran. And the reverse is also true.

 

[The Accountant]

the purpose of Chahbahar is not massive amount of global trade. It is an alternate route to trade with Afghanistan.
Irrespective of India it is Iran's interest to have an independent Afghanistan free of Taliban and other pakistani proxies.

Reality check... Taliban are not pak's proxy ... They were gov before invasion.... Afghani taliban are local tribal leaders who control most of afghanistan ...

 

[wiseone2]

Reality check... Taliban are not pak's proxy ... They were gov before invasion.... Afghani taliban are local tribal leaders who control most of afghanistan ...

yeah sure. what is next ? sun rises in the west.

 

[The Accountant]

yeah sure. what is next ? sun rises in the west.

Hahahaha ... So instead of presenting any argument ... Just this BS reply ... What part was wrong ? Afghan gov of taliban ? Tribal leaders ? Or contol of afghanistan ? All these are realities ... There are two political forces in afghanistan one is northern alliance other is taliban ...

 

[wiseone2]

Hahahaha ... So instead of presenting any argument ... Just this BS reply ... What part was wrong ? Afghan gov of taliban ? Tribal leaders ? Or contol of afghanistan ? All these are realities ... There are two political forces in afghanistan one is northern alliance other is taliban ...

The taliban is pakistan's horse in the struggle to control afghanistan

 

[The Accountant]

The taliban is pakistan's horse in the struggle to control afghanistan

Kindlyy check history ... Afghan and afghani people were never been conquered or ruled by others ... Russians tried they failed misserably ... No bodyy could force taliban on afghanistan if original people of land do not accept ... Its a highlyy tribal society ... Only tribal leaders can rule its people .. Thats whyg current gov is incapable to holds its ground other than Kabul ... Deep inside local people want taliban rules ... Why ? Because of these well documented facts :

1 during taliban erra opmium production reduced near to zero .
2 Crime rates came to almost 0
3 unlike powerful belief spread by western media taliban government constitutes of various ethinic and religious factions which includes non.pakhtons and non wahabis
4 taliban were implementing true islamic law which is demand of people of the land ...

These are documented facts you can do some research on these ...

 

[wiseone2]

Kindlyy check history ... Afghan and afghani people were never been conquered or ruled by others ... Russians tried they failed misserably ... No bodyy could force taliban on afghanistan if original people of land do not accept ... Its a highlyy tribal society ... Only tribal leaders can rule its people .. Thats whyg current gov is incapable to holds its ground other than Kabul ... Deep inside local people want taliban rules ... Why ? Because of these well documented facts :

1 during taliban erra opmium production reduced near to zero .
2 Crime rates came to almost 0
3 unlike powerful belief spread by western media taliban government constitutes of various ethinic and religious factions which includes non.pakhtons and non wahabis
4 taliban were implementing true islamic law which is demand of people of the land ...

These are documented facts you can do some research on these ...

1 and 2 are irrelevant. If you are trying to prove the Taliban is good no one is buying it. I will repeat Pakistan, UAE and Saudi Arabia were the only ones who recognized them.

Taliban was universally hated by non-Pusthun groups. If they were so popular how come USA destroyed them with air power and 500 soldiers

"true islamic law" - it is an oxymoron

 

[The Accountant]

1 and 2 are irrelevant. If you are trying to prove the Taliban is good no one is buying it. I will repeat Pakistan, UAE and Saudi Arabia were the only ones who recognized them.

Taliban was universally hated by non-Pusthun groups. If they were so popular how come USA destroyed them with air power and 500 soldiers

"true islamic law" - it is an oxymoron

Sir if start giving reasons why western world on communists hate them you will say i am a conspiracy theorist ... Lets skip that part and we remain stuck to material argument ...

1. Nobody recognize them because there basis were of islamic governemnt and not based on western ideology ... However, its nkt about others... Its about whether people of afghanistan recognizes them ... People of afghan love them and evidence is point 1 and 2.

2 Sir are you sure taliban are destroyed ? Taliban control half of afhhanistan ...

3 can you please care to explain how a force without anyy airforce could survive against daisy cutters ?

4 for example in iraq baaz part of saddam hussain is no where in the scene ... They dont even retaliate despite of having powerful armyy ... Afghanistan did not had even a regular army ...

If for the sake of argument taliban dont have local support and are just paks proxy hiw the hell in the world they survive such humongous attacks for 15 years ... Galiban at best could be10k fighter ... Casualities in afghan taliban are much higher in numbers ... Still they survive

Take example of pakistani taliban ... They did not had support of locals on ground ... They Re bunch of drug lords who want power ... Just one operatio and they are out of Pakistan ... Reason being they were ochpiers ... Thats not the case of afghani taliban .. Local support them...

Do you even know how taliban gets created ? Why there name is taliban ? And how mullah omer became their chief ?

I would agai say being senior member its your responsibility to being imlartial as much as you can and try to find out realities by reading research not just blind follower of popular belief ...

 

[wiseone2]

Sir if start giving reasons why western world on communists hate them you will say i am a conspiracy theorist ... Lets skip that part and we remain stuck to material argument ...

1. Nobody recognize them because there basis were of islamic governemnt and not based on western ideology ... However, its nkt about others... Its about whether people of afghanistan recognizes them ... People of afghan love them and evidence is point 1 and 2.

2 Sir are you sure taliban are destroyed ? Taliban control half of afhhanistan ...

3 can you please care to explain how a force without anyy airforce could survive against daisy cutters ?

4 for example in iraq baaz part of saddam hussain is no where in the scene ... They dont even retaliate despite of having powerful armyy ... Afghanistan did not had even a regular army ...

If for the sake of argument taliban dont have local support and are just paks proxy hiw the hell in the world they survive such humongous attacks for 15 years ... Galiban at best could be10k fighter ... Casualities in afghan taliban are much higher in numbers ... Still they survive

Take example of pakistani taliban ... They did not had support of locals on ground ... They Re bunch of drug lords who want power ... Just one operatio and they are out of Pakistan ... Reason being they were ochpiers ... Thats not the case of afghani taliban .. Local support them...

Do you even know how taliban gets created ? Why there name is taliban ? And how mullah omer became their chief ?

I would agai say being senior member its your responsibility to being imlartial as much as you can and try to find out realities by reading research not just blind follower of popular belief ...

There are 57 Muslim states. The 3 states that recognized them are Saudi Arabia, UAE and Pakistan. They had geo-political reasons for their decision to support the Taliban. Even countries you court - Russia, China, Sri Lanka, Bangladesh refused to deal with the Taliban

How do you lose to an army of less than 500 soldiers ??

 

[The Accountant]

There are 57 Muslim states. The 3 states that recognized them are Saudi Arabia, UAE and Pakistan. They had geo-political reasons for their decision to support the Taliban. Even countries you court - Russia, China, Sri Lanka, Bangladesh refused to deal with the Taliban

How do you lose to an army of less than 500 soldiers ??

Bro again ? Does it matter that whether external sources recognize them or not ?

Question whether people of afghanistan recognizes them and accept them as their leaders ? Just answere this question based on fact rather than opinion ...

Second how couil russia and its ally china coukd recgnize taliban when taliban were the reasons of destructio of soviet union ?

What 57 islamic countries are you talking about ? Is there a single country having balls to accept taliban against will of USA and Russia ? Government of muslim countries including pak are nothing but rubber stamp of either USA or Russia ...

How to loose ... Just remove your airforce from india and let pakistan bring daisy cutters which will suck the oxygen of several km area and let us do carpet bombing on cncentrated areas of indian army ... Can you please let me know how will indian army survive with such attack ?

I bet only Pakistan air force will be enough to destrog whole indian army within days

Afghans were not even regular army ...

Plus if they had been defeated hiw the hell after 15 years if continous carpet bombing they still control half if afghan ?