A show of hands

[Awesome]

The US has to go first.

The groups will fight for a while, heck it'd get even more ugly. But till the US is there this is not getting resolved.

 

[parihaka]

What's the point of removing him off power if your invasion doesn't bring about anything better?

Did you read the survey I posted above?

Count. And keep counting for the next coupla years.

When it gets over Saddams totals, call me

The Americans made an ugly mess out of Iraq. Saddam was one man messing up Iraq, not it's a whole bunch of American politicians (little tiny behind the scenes Saddams) calling the shots.

Yes they have made an ugly mess, it's just not nearly as ugly as it was with Saddam

All angles should be presented. When you cleverly disguise your angle under the garb of proving validity for an invasion gone so wrong, then thats not presentation of all Angles. Thats selection of an angle. That's propaganda.

We're all free to discuss... Just my two cents on the issue.

Gee, you think I'm clever? And the point of a forum is to present your point of view. I made it as simple as possible to elicit as much feedback and discussion as possible. By your definition of propaganda, everything you have posted here falls under that definition. You can't have it both ways Assim.
(by the way, I'm finally getting broadband at home so that book we were talking about should be a go'er within the next couple of weeks if you've still got it?)

 

[parihaka]

The US has to go first.

The groups will fight for a while, heck it'd get even more ugly. But till the US is there this is not getting resolved.

I don't think the US is going to leave. Less policing and direct control, but military bases for the forseable future would be my guess.

 

[Awesome]

Did you read the survey I posted above?

I don't really need a survey to tell me what I can hear from Iraqis all around me. A former instructor, a senior, a colleague have all held the same opinions about the US and it still remains to be unchanged. Not to forget, the driver's "Harami Gawwaad" description of George W. Bush.

Everybody believes its in the US's vested interests in keeping the feud alive between the Shia's and Sunnis. As long as they are fighting each other, they are not fighting the Americans after all. Or less of them are.

When it gets over Saddams totals, call me

Hey by now its pretty damn close. Also considering Saddam ruled for decades and America for just a few now, the rate of American induced killings are way higher.

Yes they have made an ugly mess, it's just not nearly as ugly as it was with Saddam

Count.

Gee, you think I'm clever?

Is that so bad?

And the point of a forum is to present your point of view.

Discuss things. Presenting just your own views is one way of doing it, but if thats ALL you will do prepare for some counter views.

By your definition of propaganda, everything you have posted here falls under that definition

.
How so? I broke down things. The sneakyness I thought was in placing two disjointed questions as one. I broke em up. Asked more questions.

(by the way, I'm finally getting broadband at home so that book we were talking about should be a go'er within the next couple of weeks if you've still got it?)

PM me about it. Great book.

Also a further continuation of why I'm making a point to point out that little casual phrasing of the question which can't possibly get anyone to diss the American invasion of Iraq, is because... "Little things make big differences".

It's got some truly great "Little things" concepts. Heck Iraq is the ideal place to fix the little big things. But the intent is far from that, Parihaka.

I wonder what'd Malcom Gladwell's take be on effective propaganda? I have a feeling he'd agree with me on this one.

 

[parihaka]

Discuss things. Presenting just your own views is one way of doing it, but if thats ALL you will do prepare for some counter views.

What in blue blazes do you think I'm doing?
It's you and Sig who keep trying to shoot me down just for asking the question.

 

[Awesome]

You're always welcome to "shoot us down" .

Discussions become debates, and they heated debates. Which is all good...

 

[Tiki Tam Tam]

Actually, this is a very difficult question to answer.

Saddam was a tyrant. That is true.

He required to go. That is also true to some extent since I do not know what the Iraqis feel about it,

The present situation is a total chaos. That is also true.

There is a possibility of a greater Sunni Shia bloodbath. Questionable, but nevertheless there is a possibility. Is that good? I wonder.

There is a possibility of balkanisation of Iraq. Maybe and maybe not.

Therefore, the whole issue goes round in an endless circle.

Is it good? Maybe.

Is it bad? Maybe.

One thing is however is for sure. US failed to see through the whole issue and is now caught between the Devil and the Deep Sea.

 

[Awesome]

OMG... I agree...

 

[Tiki Tam Tam]

You do! :surprise:

Hallelujah!

My opinion on the Iraq War has been consistent. Nothing new, actually.

 

[parihaka]

OMG... I agree...

You do! :surprise:

Hallelujah!

: parihakafallsover :
I still think they are better off, but you guys know me, I'm a pretty black & white sort of a guy. I do however also agree with this

US failed to see through the whole issue and is now caught between the Devil and the Deep Sea.