A readworthy article about America's rebalance to Asia and the reasons why it may backfire

[70U63]

You can't really blame him.
There are some forumers want to act professional, try to promote positive thinking/culture in the forum, however....
You guys are getting so excited about destroy a country because they might have the ability to challenge the status quo.
It is like ISIS get so excited and sharing the video on youtube on how they blow off head of captives.

Anyway, I'm more interested to know where (which country) the potential proxy war will be...

Please ignore Taishang on this particular subject, he is just trolling/harassing. I got annoyed with it and called him out on it and like a kid he is trying to push my buttons again when he has no arguments.

 

[anon45]

You can't really blame him.
There are some forumers want to act professional, try to promote positive thinking/culture in the forum, however....
You guys are getting so excited about destroy a country because they might have the ability to challenge the status quo.
It is like ISIS get so excited and sharing the video on youtube on how they blow off head of captives.

Anyway, I'm more interested to know where (which country) the potential proxy war will be...

+

I cant speak for others, but i'm hardly excited about destroying a country, especially if you are referring to China. I challenge anyone to find where i've said i'd be glad to see China destroyed, and if they do find it I will apologize, because I don't think that way.

I fully support a prosperous China working within the existing international order, following existing and ratified international laws agreed upon pretty much the world over, as well as following existing international institutions.

Creating new institutions that work within or complement the existing ones is fine.

It would be a great force for good, especially if China trended towards democratization in the process.

The problem is that there are certain hyper-nationalists and anti-certain nationalities (not just anti-American) that bring the discussion down to a base level. We've all seen it. It brings out the most base in many, including me to my shame on some occasions.

As for proxy war between US and China? Don't really see how it could happen outside of Korea, and that's a long shot in itself.

I suppose I should add it would be great if there were more people like Nihonjin on here, he serves as an example with the good nature he handles the sometimes trolling comments directed at him.

 

[Gibbs]

A very interesting and engaging discussion.. Lets not derail it.. Very valid and strong arguments from both sides.. And a trove of knowledge for posters like me with no military background.. Keep it up

 

[jhungary]

Interesting. $20,000/month is nice salary. Average senior Engineers here with 10-15 years experience make $10,000 CAD/month

$20,000 a month is with Overtime and Night Shift. Normal salary range is about $12,000 a month. Generally you have 1 to 2 weeks night shift and that pays double and OT pay 1.5 more than normal hourly rate. And Engineer OT a lot. Plus he been starting since late 1990s so, I don't know......

He bought an apartment block 5 years ago in Hong Kong for ~5 million HKD tho. and pay off in 5 years. So I guess it's good money.

 

[mike jones]

Please ignore Taishang on this particular subject, he is just trolling/harassing. I got annoyed with it and called him out on it and like a kid he is trying to push my buttons again when he has no arguments.

Not sure if I should call it out to mods. Sure as hell not giving out any more private info than ive given to prove a troll wrong, but the targeted and harassing nature of his posts on this subject are matters of record.

Make use of the "ignore" button. It's almost like pressing the "Nuke" button. LOL

 

[jhungary]

You can't really blame him.
There are some forumers want to act professional, try to promote positive thinking/culture in the forum, however....
You guys are getting so excited about destroy a country because they might have the ability to challenge the status quo.
It is like ISIS get so excited and sharing the video on youtube on how they blow off head of captives.

Anyway, I'm more interested to know where (which country) the potential proxy war will be...

I believe we are not off topic until he came around............

We were as always discussing the US Pivot to Asia and the OP's Article. Most of us think the article is wrong and did not represent the actual situation. Then he came in and start blasting rounds off me for my Engineer Comment (Slight off topic) and about Indian.

So if we can't blame him, who should we blame?

 

[seven7seven]

Thing is, the reason why other countries such Japan, Vietnam and the Philippines forming a so-called alliance is because of the fears of Chinese expansion, that if they get full control of East and South China seas (and if I mean "full control", it means having naval and aerospace assets, and forward operating bases on the islands), it would be a threat to national sovereignty as China could deliberately influence the foreign policies of these countries.

So Japan, Vietnam and the Philippines fear that China will do what USA is already doing right now? USA still has free reign of ECS and SCS, forward operating bases in two of these countries and overtly dictates foreign policies of Philippines and Japan. Vietnam seem to be eager to become US lapdog too. The same US that bombed Vietnam to near oblivion and committed countless war atrocities during the Vietnam war. Seems that Japan, Vietnam and the Philippines have a problem accepting an East Asian Master and can only look up to a White Master.

It's like some odd Stockholm syndrome and racial inferiority complex these countries have.

 

[Kyusuibu Honbu]

Lets also be direct and frank with readers here ; Russia considers China its number one threat in the Eurasian region. America is the political enemy, but China? China is the very reason why the Russian Federation maintains a large standing army on borders with China. No where else than in that border region.

Not just that, as per new Russian military doctrine, Russian tactical nukes will be used to deter any Chinese military incursions into Siberia.

The Implications of the New Doctrine ------------------------------------

5. (C) Zolotarev argued that, while the chances of a large-scale war breaking out are remote, China would most likely be the target of any preemptive nuclear strike. Most serious military planners dismissed any threat from NATO long ago, he posited. China still has a mass mobilization army, he said, and the Russian Far East is thinly populated, has little infrastructure, and a small Russian military contingent. With the Russian army restructured to rapidly respond to small-scale wars, the GOR would have to rely on its nuclear deterrent to prevent a Chinese attack.

Cable: 09MOSCOW3138_a

 

[Cossack25A1]

So Japan, Vietnam and the Philippines fear that China will do what USA is already doing right now? USA still has free reign of ECS and SCS, forward operating bases in two of these countries and overtly dictates foreign policies of Philippines and Japan. Vietnam seem to be eager to become US lapdog too. The same US that bombed Vietnam to near oblivion and committed countless war atrocities during the Vietnam war. Seems that Japan, Vietnam and the Philippines have a problem accepting an East Asian Master and can only look up to a White Master.

It's like some odd Stockholm syndrome and racial inferiority complex these countries have.

America may have faults and paranoid government officials, but at least their government is not as paranoid as the CCP in China that uses history as fuel for its ultra-nationalistic rhetoric.

We would rather choose the lesser evil.

Besides, haven't your nation/civilization had its chance for the past 2000-4000 years?

 

[seven7seven]

America may have faults and paranoid government officials, but at least their government is not as paranoid as the CCP in China that uses history as fuel for its ultra-nationalistic rhetoric.

We would rather choose the lesser evil.

Besides, haven't your nation/civilization had its chance for the past 2000-4000 years?

So America are not paranoid?

You do realise that all the recent wars in the Middle East is about re-asserting control of oil supply there and crushing any regime threatening to opt out of the Petrodollar racket, and Afghanistan war is to control the opium trade. The only credit I would give to US is that it has the best propaganda, especially, when they are seen as the good guys when they are actually behaving as bad as regimes like the Nazis. It certainly is true that the victors do write the story of history.

Japan, Philippines and Vietnam, and countries like them, are like abused women that stay with their abusers because they have gotten so used to the abuse and being oppressed, and in a twisted way, have come to love their oppressors.

China doesn't really have a problem with these countries but they know that as they grow more powerful, economically, it will erode US global influence and that's something US cannot allow. I'm sure China are aware of how USA blockaded Japan, prior to World War 2, to prevent Japan's rise back then, and they are making efforts to prevent this from happening to China. Controlling strategically important islands in ECS and SCS is crucial to this end. China is not looking at them as stepping stones for invasion and expansion into Philippines and Japan. It's all about preventing US from blockading China and containing China's economic rise. If Philippines wants to, like the OP article says, become a sacrificial lamb in USA-China tug-of-war for power, then think carefully before putting all your eggs in America's basket. It will be Filipino lives most at risk in such a conflict.

 

[jhungary]

America may have faults and paranoid government officials, but at least their government is not as paranoid as the CCP in China that uses history as fuel for its ultra-nationalistic rhetoric.

We would rather choose the lesser evil.

Besides, haven't your nation/civilization had its chance for the past 2000-4000 years?

Talk about pararoid.....

So America are not paranoid?

You do realise that all the recent wars in the Middle East is about re-asserting control of oil supply there and crushing any regime threatening to opt out of the Petrodollar racket, and Afghanistan war is to control the opium trade. The only credit I would give to US is that it has the best propaganda, especially, when they are seen as the good guys when they are actually behaving as bad as regimes like the Nazis. It certainly is true that the victors do write the story of history.

If this is not, then I don't know what is..........

 

[Aepsilons]

No, I'm actually concern with your mentality. I have no idea what you are talking about. Sorry, I don't learn from mentally unstable people like you.

Not just that, as per new Russian military doctrine, Russian tactical nukes will be used to deter any Chinese military incursions into Siberia.



Cable: 09MOSCOW3138_a

Precisely.

 

[seven7seven]

Talk about pararoid.....



If this is not, then I don't know what is..........

Just keep eating your hormone-laden burgers and believing what you hear on CNN.

 

[jhungary]

Just keep eating your hormone-laden burgers and believing what you hear on CNN.

Dude, you are paranoid......Telling me to eat anything does not change anything

Iraqi was ranked 5th on OPEC after UAE, Iran, Saudi Arabia and Kuwait. And ranked 8 of top 10 oil production. Can you tell me how controlling Iraq mere 4 million barrel a day oil production control OPEC? Where UAE (4 Millions BBL/d), Saudi(10 Millions BBL/d) and Kuwait (3 Millions DDL/d) was heavily entrenched in Washington camp already? In fact, 7 out of 10 are US and its allies.

US didn't even bid for the oil contract in Iraq, and guess who picked up all those contract after Operation Iraqi Freedom?

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/06/03/w...aps-biggest-benefits-of-iraq-oil-boom.html?_r
Let China pump Iraq's oil - Economy

Also, how would it make sense for American to fight hard in Iraq and supposedly get all its oil, then flood the market with American Shale? Can you answer me that?

Another thing about afghan Opium, Opium Transport require land route, it cannot be transported by Air due to tightened Aviation Security, it cannot be transported by Sea due to humidity. Afghani Opium top destination is Europe. What can CIA achieve by controlling the Afghani Opium trade? Anyone lived in Europe knows afghan opium are controlled by Turkey (Via Balkan route) and Russia (via Central Asia). CIA did control opium trade in Columbia, but there are no value to be make by controlling Afghan Poppy, it was headed in the wrong direction.

Hence you are paranoid.

 

[Cossack25A1]

So America are not paranoid?

You do realise that all the recent wars in the Middle East is about re-asserting control of oil supply there and crushing any regime threatening to opt out of the Petrodollar racket, and Afghanistan war is to control the opium trade. The only credit I would give to US is that it has the best propaganda, especially, when they are seen as the good guys when they are actually behaving as bad as regimes like the Nazis. It certainly is true that the victors do write the story of history.

Japan, Philippines and Vietnam, and countries like them, are like abused women that stay with their abusers because they have gotten so used to the abuse and being oppressed, and in a twisted way, have come to love their oppressors.

China doesn't really have a problem with these countries but they know that as they grow more powerful, economically, it will erode US global influence and that's something US cannot allow. I'm sure China are aware of how USA blockaded Japan, prior to World War 2, to prevent Japan's rise back then, and they are making efforts to prevent this from happening to China. Controlling strategically important islands in ECS and SCS is crucial to this end. China is not looking at them as stepping stones for invasion and expansion into Philippines and Japan. It's all about preventing US from blockading China and containing China's economic rise. If Philippines wants to, like the OP article says, become a sacrificial lamb in USA-China tug-of-war for power, then think carefully before putting all your eggs in America's basket. It will be Filipino lives most at risk in such a conflict.

Whether we side with US, China or stay neutral, we will still suffer because of our location in this side of the world. We know where we are jumping to if we side with the US or Japan, but we would rather take chances with that (being on the US or Japan side) rather than simply "kowtowing" to China.

In your opinion, what China is doing right now in SCS is not an invasion or expansion but as a benign proposal to protect your country's borders, but for us Filipinos, it is an invasion and you cannot change that mentality that we feel threatened by your government's plan to control the SCS by building islands that could host military installations. Not everyone will agree with what the PH government, US government or your government thinks and wants, but judging what is happening at present times, it shows that your government wants everyone to agree with what they want regardless of consequences.

This is why we (or at least many of the Filipinos) support what America recently did.

Talk about pararoid.....

Then I don't deny that I am being paranoid.