A NEW AIRCRAFT FOR PAF

[A.P. Richelieu]

Options available to PAF:

Sweden -
Grippen New C/D with Euro Jet engines.

Grippen
Highly unlikely as it would force PAF to stop production of JF-17.

Forget Gripen, as Sweden does not sell such weapons to Pakistan.
Swedish laws categorizes countries, and Pakistan is only allowed to buy defensive material like EriEye.

And we won't sell to countries which cannot spell Gripen correctly, LOL.

 

[jermankill]

oh plz just stfu this is non of ur businesses stay out of it

 

[Indus Falcon]

Joe,

Is this recruitment season

Seems he's quite good at attracting retards, has a natural panache for it.

 

[Basel]

@Oscar @waz @Horus please clean this thread of off topic posts.

 

[MastanKhan]

Sure Sir why not
i just don't want to go off topic cause i was preaching someone about not going off topics hhaha

Hi,

You just crossed the first step---for qualifying to be recruited by the enemy primo intel agy.

 

[wiseone2]

The issue with PAF is they are unable to make up their mind because of the fast evolving technological improvements in fifth gen aircraft. However this does not indicate that PAF should procure more 4th gen or higher aircraft to replace the 3rd gen aircraft currently operated by Pakistan.

France -
1) New Rafale - N (Naval versions) for Pakistan Navy
2) Old Mirage 2000 - 5/9... availability not clear.

Sweden -
Grippen New C/D with Euro Jet engines.

United Kingdom -
New Euro Fighter Typhoon Trench 2 and 3
Old EFT from Spain, Italy, UK and Austria.

Russia
Mig-35 New
SU-35 New
SU-34 New

Now lets critically evaluate these options.
F-16 blk 52's cost aprox the same as the Russian aircraft. Old F-16's with MLU are available till OBAMA is President, hence it is unlikely that PAF would be getting any more F-16's after that.

Rafale N for the navy is an option but if France allows Pakistan to develop a similar solutions for JF-17.

Grippen
Highly unlikely as it would force PAF to stop production of JF-17.

EFT
With Brixit UK loses 50billion USD hence requires to sell more stuff so it is a bargain. The Indians also realize this but they can not do much about it and are threatening to close the companies in UK and pull out all their investments.

Mirage-2000 production line has been shut for 10+ years
Rafale-N is not available since the IAF is purchasing it

Typhoon is a political hassle to deal with 4 countries

I do not think Pakistan will be impressed with Russian combat aircraft. If PAF purchases Russian aircraft it will be a sign of desperation

 

[YeBeWarned]

Hi,

You just crossed the first step---for qualifying to be recruited by the enemy primo intel agy.

Every Soul is up for Sale .. so is your's its just the amount and way of Payment that can Vary .. good day Sire

 

[Indus Falcon]

The issue with PAF is they are unable to make up their mind because of the fast evolving technological improvements in fifth gen aircraft. However this does not indicate that PAF should procure more 4th gen or higher aircraft to replace the 3rd gen aircraft currently operated by Pakistan.

Keeping the above in view one has to understand how to get these aircraft timely and cost effectively. Some mistakes were made by PAF but those are now part of history, hence move on. Lessons from the past teach PAF that always have multiple sources to procure weapons. In 1965 PAF only had USA as the main supplier and that came to haunt in the next conflict.

Today most of the PDF members are suggesting that PAF should only rely on the Chinese as a sole supplier. THIS IS NOT ACCEPTABLE. China is a very dear friend today but things can change. This is how International Politics work.

Options available to PAF:
USA -
1)New 16-block 50/52 provided PAF pays the full price.
2) Old F-16's with MLU Pack but these are not available.

France -
1) New Rafale - N (Naval versions) for Pakistan Navy
2) Old Mirage 2000 - 5/9... availability not clear.

Sweden -
Grippen New C/D with Euro Jet engines.

United Kingdom -
New Euro Fighter Typhoon Trench 2 and 3
Old EFT from Spain, Italy, UK and Austria.

Russia
Mig-35 New
SU-35 New
SU-34 New

Now lets critically evaluate these options.
F-16 blk 52's cost aprox the same as the Russian aircraft. Old F-16's with MLU are available till OBAMA is President, hence it is unlikely that PAF would be getting any more F-16's after that.

Rafale N for the navy is an option but if France allows Pakistan to develop a similar solutions for JF-17.

Grippen
Highly unlikely as it would force PAF to stop production of JF-17.

EFT
With Brixit UK loses 50billion USD hence requires to sell more stuff so it is a bargain. The Indians also realize this but they can not do much about it and are threatening to close the companies in UK and pull out all their investments.

I will only comment on the above items in red:

Rafale N - was cancelled and replaced with the Rafale M, which is a customized version for carrier borne operations. PN is not planning to get any air craft carriers any time soon, so C & B combo should suit us just fine, provided the French sell to us.

Mirage 2000 -
a) Brazil retired 12 ex-ADA in Dec 2013.

b) Peru - 10 aircraft grounded due to lack of spares / financial issues

c) France - @Taygibay is the right person to comment on them. From what I have heard 55 ac's are being upgraded, more could follow soon.

d) UAE - Nothing available till 2022. They have been going through regular upgrades, so them being phased out before 2025 ~ 2030 seems highly unlikely.

e) Qatar - Once the Rafale's achieve FOC, this could become a possibility.

Practically speaking anything less than 25 ~ 30 aircraft is not feasible. It's a totally different platform, and has nothing in common to the mirages in PAF inventory.

Thanks!

 

[MastanKhan]

Every Soul is up for Sale .. so is your's its just the amount and way of Payment that can Vary .. good day Sire

Hi,

And that is the second step---.

 

[surya kiran]

Forget Gripen, as Sweden does not sell such weapons to Pakistan.
Swedish laws categorizes countries, and Pakistan is only allowed to buy defensive material like EriEye.

And we won't sell to countries which cannot spell Gripen correctly, LOL.

What is Swedish law, with regards to selling stuff during a conflict?

 

[MastanKhan]

I will only comment on the above items in red:

Rafale N - was cancelled and replaced with the Rafale M, which is a customized version for carrier borne operations. PN is not planning to get any air craft carriers any time soon, so C & B combo should suit us just fine, provided the French sell to us.

Mirage 2000 -
a) Brazil retired 12 ex-ADA in Dec 2013.

b) Peru - 10 aircraft grounded due to lack of spares / financial issues

c) France - @Taygibay is the right person to comment on them. From what I have heard 55 ac's are being upgraded, more could follow soon.

d) UAE - Nothing available till 2022. They have been going through regular upgrades, so them being phased out before 2025 ~ 2030 seems highly unlikely.

e) Qatar - Once the Rafale's achieve FOC, this could become a possibility.

Practically speaking anything less than 25 ~ 30 aircraft is not feasible. It's a totally different platform, and has nothing in common to the mirages in PAF inventory.

Thanks!

Hi,

I don't think that the M2K can fit in today's scenario---. 12-14 years ago---it was a different story---that was the time to get the Rafale---.

I think that the paf---needs to step back---get non paf personal ( like me ) involved and have a brain storming session.

The base is the US air force---they are already telling the world the direction they are headed---the problem is the world does not understand what the usaf is saying---because they don't want to believe in it---and when you don't believe in something---you don't hear it---because as it does not register---it just counts as noise.

The americans are openly saying that their 5th gen aircraft are beyond good---but they are also saying under what conditions they are par excellence---but people are not listening to that part---and that part realistically is the 80% power projection of the american 5th gen aircraft---and this part is the conventional heavy strike aircraft---loaded to the hilt---flying at a distance---connected thru Data link and all its weapons at the disposal of the 5th gen operator.

As it enters deep into the enemy's air space---and observes what needed to be struck---it can simply launch the needed weapons from the heavy strike aircraft without the authorization or permission of that aircraft.

The enemy knows a strike has taken place---but it cannot see from where the strike came from.

People call it " Tag Team "---wrestling ala USAF style.

The Paf needs to go in a different direction to counter the enemy's heavy aircraft and strike power---it either needs to go for the J16 or the JH7B and the J31---it has to have a twin engine heavy. JF17 cannot cut it.

 

[Taygibay]

c) France - @Taygibay is the right person to comment on them. From what I have heard 55 ac's are being upgraded, more could follow soon.

Not very interesting, my friend! Those of our Mirages that
will not be upgraded have worn out cells with no life poten-
tial left.
If anyone could do it, Pakistan could considering the awesome
job on the IIIs and 5s but they better come cheaper than cheap.
The Ds that are upgradable may all be retrofitted.

The 2000 D & -5 DA being out, maybe the Ns could be sold
once replaced but their service exit date of -by 2020 may be pushed
back by the interruption of Rafale deliveries following the LPM.

That program law ends in 2019 so we have to wait for then to know
for sure with some changes possible after next elections ( March 2017 ).

All the best to you and yours, Tay.

 

[Indus Falcon]

I was wondering how fast the discussion will cross nuclear threshold,Nasr is a huge disadvantage as its a small tactical nuclear weapon.
Indis does not posses that once fired upon us,we will be compel to retaliate and sorry we dont have small small nuke.
We will answer with our strategic nuclear weapon at your strategic location deep.

See there you go again, talking crap and misconstruing things, and proving how clueless you are. My ref. to Babur and Nasr was as follows:

1) Babur - Back in Oct 2005, when Pakistan and India were signing the Missile Notification pact, Pakistan asked India to include cruise missiles, to which India arrogantly rejected:

"India was not aware that Pakistan had a cruise missile when it rejected a Pakistani proposal to include the missiles in a test notification agreement."
http://www.nti.org/gsn/article/india-rejected-pakistans-missile-alert-offer-6340/


2) Nasr - Cold start doctrine. Again, Indian military planners thought they had the upper hand with a half baked "cold start doctrine." Unfortunately for them NASR popped their bubble. Subsequent to that, upgrades to NASR, and other measures were taken to insure, should any misadventure be taken, a befitting reply can be given.

Lastly, the more false flag operations you carry out, the more you like the idiot who cried wolf.

Just these two points shows the naivety of the Indian leadership. Now you can go back to spewing your blind jingoistic banter.

Thank You.

 

[wiseone2]

Hi,

I don't think that the M2K can fit in today's scenario---. 12-14 years ago---it was a different story---that was the time to get the Rafale---.

I think that the paf---needs to step back---get non paf personal ( like me ) involved and have a brain storming session.

The base is the US air force---they are already telling the world the direction they are headed---the problem is the world does not understand what the usaf is saying---because they don't want to believe in it---and when you don't believe in something---you don't hear it---because as it does not register---it just counts as noise.

The americans are openly saying that their 5th gen aircraft are beyond good---but they are also saying under what conditions they are par excellence---but people are not listening to that part---and that part realistically is the 80% power projection of the american 5th gen aircraft---and this part is the conventional heavy strike aircraft---loaded to the hilt---flying at a distance---connected thru Data link and all its weapons at the disposal of the 5th gen operator.

As it enters deep into the enemy's air space---and observes what needed to be struck---it can simply launch the needed weapons from the heavy strike aircraft with the authorization or permission of that aircraft.

The enemy knows a strike has taken place---but it cannot see from where the strike came from.

People call it " Tag Team "---wrestling ala USAF style.

The Paf needs to go in a different direction to counter the enemy's heavy aircraft and strike power---it either needs to go for the J16 or the JH7B and the J31---it has to have a twin engine heavy. JF17 cannot cut it.

why would rest of the world want to believe it ? it is scary

 

[Indus Falcon]

Hi,

I don't think that the M2K can fit in today's scenario---. 12-14 years ago---it was a different story---that was the time to get the Rafale---.

I think that the paf---needs to step back---get non paf personal ( like me ) involved and have a brain storming session.

The base is the US air force---they are already telling the world the direction they are headed---the problem is the world does not understand what the usaf is saying---because they don't want to believe in it---and when you don't believe in something---you don't hear it---because as it does not register---it just counts as noise.

The americans are openly saying that their 5th gen aircraft are beyond good---but they are also saying under what conditions they are par excellence---but people are not listening to that part---and that part realistically is the 80% power projection of the american 5th gen aircraft---and this part is the conventional heavy strike aircraft---loaded to the hilt---flying at a distance---connected thru Data link and all its weapons at the disposal of the 5th gen operator.

As it enters deep into the enemy's air space---and observes what needed to be struck---it can simply launch the needed weapons from the heavy strike aircraft with the authorization or permission of that aircraft.

The enemy knows a strike has taken place---but it cannot see from where the strike came from.

People call it " Tag Team "---wrestling ala USAF style.

The Paf needs to go in a different direction to counter the enemy's heavy aircraft and strike power---it either needs to go for the J16 or the JH7B and the J31---it has to have a twin engine heavy. JF17 cannot cut it.

I agree with you that the M2K is best left on the pasture. It would be a terrible stop gap measure. The quantities, and tech, are simply not there. The Rafale would have been a much better option, but PAF seems to have missed the boat on that as well.

Besides the Chinese Options, the Russian seems the most logical at this point in time, but the silence and the slow progress on the induction of a new platform is disturbing.