A divided nation | Peace or War with Taliban?

[Panther 57]

We actually still don’t learnt to write things according to their actual perspective, first this idea of creating a secular state after broking a secular state itself sounds a wrong beat, May be you could prove it right in front of some die hard nationalists but not in front of world. Then the 2nd point is that we still don’t understand, what we really have lost in war on terror, It’s the status of QOM, Now even If you use the term QOMI MUFAD itself sounds and empty terminology at current scenario of our state , There is no common interest left among us , Just took an example of APC , Do you believe that the parties taking part in APC are the complete or Half representator of Pakistan even? And If they are then are they seems unite? I agreed with @Anotherangle from all prespective specially the point where he mentioned the complete dominance of Punjab in our establishment throughout the history , Just have a Poll here that Are other provinces have equivalent authority in making decision in national interest or not , and majority of non-punjabi Pakistani members will click on Not , as majority is not satisfied with the center , and political parties and national institutions have came too far in internal conflicts that they couldn’t even think as QOM . So the term QOMI MUFAD and QOMI FAISLA is no more exist in reality. Its just authorities are tossing it as where they need to apply this terminology for personal cause.

When the term QOMI MFAD and QOMI FAISLA are used, it is indicative of the benefit and decision of the ruler. And when I say ruler it means the dynastic head of the political party. What can you expect from people who secure less than 1% of votes among 180 million of people and then claim that they have mandate of 180 million people.

 

[Zarvan]

A Divided Nation Against A United Enemy


For the purpose of this article I would try to be as neutral as possible yet I admit that personal opinions would somehow spill over, yet, I believe something like this is the need of the hour.


Peace with the beast?


During Pakistan’s historic elections the old time heavy weight PML-N and the new force to be reckoned with the PTI along with some other center-rightest parties promised an end to militancy, an issue which featured a lower profile than it should have in the agenda of the parties. On one side was the PPP along with the ANP and MQM that wanted to engage the terrorists or so was their perception for the common voter. On the other side was the PML-N and PTI with JUI and other religious or conservative parties looking to either pull out Pakistan from perceived American trenches or lead her to a path of peace with the TTP.


Let’s for a moment forget the premise that the Pakistan Army is calling all the shots and focus on the political aspects of it. We all know that the PML-N and PTI won over the PPP and her allies in terms of the militancy question this means that Pakistanis want peace with the Talibs.


However, a key process that gets ignored in Pakistani politics is consensus development. In a nation with a high diversity it is paramount to develop consensus and it is not just centred around the parties but amongst the common folk and after nearly a decade of fighting and bleeding Pakistanis are still not convinced that this is Pakistan’s War.
In an effort to make people think what the future holds I would present the arguments on both sides and would welcome readers to please contribute their views to me and one another.


Solution of peace


The first camp that wants peace asserts that this war is essentially an American war, not Pakistan’s and had Pakistani leadership of the time been strong enough there would have been no war in the tribal region. Building on this premise they see the 50, 000 civilians dead since 2001 as victims of American imperial power rather than casualties of an enemy of Pakistan. For them we should make peace with the terrorists and focus on the real enemy, which would mean India or the internal and desperate situation we face in the country.
On paper it looks great and there are certain points to be noted here: there is a significant population in KPK that does not want the war to continue. The victory of PTI is held often as a proof of that and essentially it should be noted for everyone that the people of KPK take the brunt of the assault from both sides, the military and the militancy, and it is hard to differentiate the effects that both of them have on the common civilian life.
It is also paramount to note that this war is essentially a large scale counterinsurgency (COIN) war and thus the support of the local populace is needed otherwise this is a lost cause or would be a Pyrrhic victory. There should be no qualms of the desperate internal situation we have, economically we cannot survive without foreign monetary support and the reason for stretching Pakistan so thin, in the minds of a significant population, is the War of Terror. Peace = prosperity = better Pakistan.


The Devil’s advocate


That being said, I would ask this portion of Pakistan a couple of questions to answer for themselves and for me or at least ponder over it.


Firstly, do you know what peace will entail? What will the Taliban do? Will they take their guns and bombs home and apply for a job at Warid or Aruj TV? Or would they take some sheep and start a small scale herding business with their expertise in logistics? What do you think? Will they disband and laugh with you over a cup of kawa about the time when Molvi so and so declared an order to take army post so and so and the Taliban fighter had forgotten his AK at home and had to borrow it from a friend of a friend and still hasn’t returned it? Are you comfortable with them going around your backyard?


Secondly, do you know what these guys do? The Afghani Talibs started similar, they were rag tag and climbed to the top and what did they do then? Implement the Shariah, banned TV and music, publically beat women whose feet would show. Do you want that to happen to your daughter? A 20 something guy snapping a stick at her feet while she walks home with you and has an AK shoved in your face. Ask the people in Swat who lived under them, they were terrified of these Muslims. Do you want to live like that?


Thirdly, are you OK with 50, 000 people of your country dying, a number greater than all the number of people we lost during our three adventures with India and the people responsible going free and actually one day taking over?
That is what peace will do. These guys are already telling us how they things are going to go. You hate the army? The government? You enjoy some idiot on TV making fun of them? Well you can’t hate them, they will kill you. Are you ready for that? Are you ready to live either as a clobber or poppy farmer or mover? Will that make you a good Muslim?


The army and the government are not perfect, I agree, but on some level, at some place, they are accountable to you. The Army chief is going, the PM will go. You can read things about them in the
papers and on TV about what they do wrong, you can have some kawah and share the baldness of the PM and his brother and have a laugh. That is going away with the Talibs in charge and have no confusion about that they are coming if they have the space and opportunity to.
I agree that the development of KPK and FATA has not been at par to what it should have been but with the greatest idiot in the PM house and greatest dictator in GHQ you still have the opportunity to have development. You guys did not want the ANP you got the PTI (I cheer you for that, I tried too but we failed) and if you don’t like them you can get some other guy. However, once a Talib comes, he will stay. Do you want that?


No peace


The no peace camp states that how can we allow people who target and kill us openly and indiscriminately to go around free? We have sacrificed, all of us, some more than others, we agree. Isn’t that how we have lived since our inception? We had to fight the Indian might, the Afghani plans and justifiably the Soviet plans (which lead to our division as well though we were practically begging for it) to take over. We have had to fight to survive. How are the Talibs any different? At best they are criminals rather than militants but still they are not someone to open doors for.
This might have started as America’s war but not it is our war. Telling someone ‘not fair’ whence we get caught in pakranpakrai is not really a way to play the game. So we must fight the Talibs and any who’d want to see Pakistan divided.


The Devil’s advocate


OK, a number of questions for you guys as well.


Firstly, ask any common man, ‘PAKISTAN KA MATLAB KIA’ what’s he going to say? I’m sure you know what. So if that’s true and that’s the only reason we have Pakistan doesn’t that justify the Talibs? If we are the choosers of our own destiny then should we not move towards a more tolerant society? If LGS makes a syllabus ‘comparative religion’ and we go crazy over it how do you expect us to fight an ideological enemy when our ideological cracks allow them to thrive? Should we not be like them and be vigilant on the streets as we are on facebook? This is a war and everyone has a part to play. It’s like the Battle of Britan for us. Are you doing enough? Are you tolerant enough to ideologically fight a mental Talib? If not then how can you put the pressure on the government when you are not coming up to the mark?


Secondly, Uncle Sam’s exiting and as the perfect metaphor for US-Pak relationships has been coined by S. Nawaz and S. Cohen about us being Uncle Sam’s condom do you truly expect them to support us? Do we not need to invest in the economy and civil infrastructure? All studies on COIN strategies show that no centralised command, on which every institution that we have is made, can defeat a well grounded insurgents. Don’t we need to support, and not on facebook, the proper reforms for our education, civil service and even the military? Wouldn’t a child who’s educated at par with a child educated from LGS, Beaconhouse, BHS, NGS and so on from a government institution regardless of the location in Pakistan be the ground to stop the recruitment of TTP? Are you doing enough to see that happen?


Thirdly, yes, the military is doing what it should by saying that these cowards will not dictate how we roll into peace. I agree. That doesn’t mean that democracy is wrong in Pakistan. These Talibs are a result of strategy born out of no accountability because even at snail’s pace, democratic institutions get their will known. Take for example the US-Vietnam war, had the US opinion not changed the war would have been much more bloodier, the Vietcong lost most of the battles but won the one that mattered: the opinion of the US citizens. In the long run that is the only way for our society to survive so should we not side with the government rather than the military if it comes to who’s in charge? We elected them. We’re responsible for them. Can’t we have a massive protest in Lahore, Karachi, Islamabad, Faisalabad, Pehsawar, Quetta and so on with slogans of no peace with Talibs, we want them gone? Are we doing enough? If not then how can we expect this to work?


The stance of war needs to take into account that the TTP has thrived because of our divisions and societal fissures which they have infected and are thriving. It’s not one institution that is responsible it is everyone in one way or another. You can do your part and convince your countrymen that you stand with them, not the Talibs. That you will support them in case anything happens, you’ve their backs. Also, your government needs to have no qualms about what you want. Protest, on the streets, not facebook to let these people know who’s boss and they want. Do your part then expect something. Are you aware that your stance is harder and thus requires more input?
Show everyone your mettle as a nation this is our generation’s 65 don’t let it turn into 71.

@Alpha1 @Capt.Popeye @haviZsultan @hinduguy @Pak-one @Slav Defece @Ayush @Armstrong @Dillinger @Secur @Hyperion @Aeronaut @Mirzy @S.Y.A @S.U.R.B. @Marshmallow

You can't beat them Mr that is for sure you may enter North Wazristan and get that area but the moment you decide to enter that area they would leave that area escape to some where else and after few months they would return and create more havoc than ever before Mr still with your operations they are 37 groups who are members of TTP if you have cleared all the areas How come their are still so many groups their are more who are not Part of TTP but are also fighting state Mr our forces never understood that area and they messed with Tribals under Musharraf on orders from USA and that was the biggest disaster after 1971 we would have to talk to these guys weather we like them or not get them with us at least as many as we could and decrease the number of those who still want to fight with us and this will be long and painful process but its the only way Sir and than Ask tribals to attack the groups which are left behind

 

[K-Xeroid]

When the term QOMI MFAD and QOMI FAISLA are used, it is indicative of the benefit and decision of the ruler. And when I say ruler it means the dynastic head of the political party. What can you expect from people who secure less than 1% of votes among 180 million of people and then claim that they have mandate of 180 million people.

1% ? Are you rejecting that Lahore or Punjab plays the vital role in selection of next government , The rest of provincial elite is just contacted after the things were decided. Just to show National will .The tickets were distributed among the strongest Sardars and contenders , The strongest are referred to Ba-Asar elite that controls the region with his armed thugs . well Its a different story , In some how you are saying the same thing what I said before , that their is no QOMI MUFAD exist , The term is being tossed by Ba-asar afrad or Ruling elite or Establishment. Whatever you call them . Their is no single QOM exist in reality . They were multiple in Past and It will remain diverse in future.

 

[jaibi]

You can't beat them Mr that is for sure you may enter North Wazristan and get that area but the moment you decide to enter that area they would leave that area escape to some where else and after few months they would return and create more havoc than ever before Mr still with your operations they are 37 groups who are members of TTP if you have cleared all the areas How come their are still so many groups their are more who are not Part of TTP but are also fighting state Mr our forces never understood that area and they messed with Tribals under Musharraf on orders from USA and that was the biggest disaster after 1971 we would have to talk to these guys weather we like them or not get them with us at least as many as we could and decrease the number of those who still want to fight with us and this will be long and painful process but its the only way Sir and than Ask tribals to attack the groups which are left behind

Zarvan, thank you for reading my piece, if you read it, that is.

Secondly, regarding your assertion that the Taliban are unbeatable, that is completely wrong. They are beatable, our military has done a better job against them than the USA. They are totally beatable and have suffered military defeats on every battle.
This myth of their infallibility has been nurtured falsely by the number of terrorist attacks perhaps or the right-wing propoganda. The increase of terrorist incidents actually indicates that their military strenght is declining. So is their recruitment drive. The public support they once enjoyed has faded.

Thirdly, in total number the entire terrorist network does not exceed 35,000 and that was in 2009-10, they have been decreased substantially by military actions. The Afghani Talibs have become political for this reason, all militia armed groups turn political once their military arm weakens and our TTP has not been able to become political because they do not enjoy public support. They have instead turned heavily to crime.

Thank you for your views, Zarvan but the data contradicts what you are asserting. A well coordinated operation can wipe them out in 3-5 years and by that I mean in all angles: political, military, crime and so on. They are a cancer and cancer is hard but not impossible to cure. The US military is studying our performance because they have been impressed by our performance against TTP.

 

[jaibi]

You may have enough money for generations, but not nearly as much as you think. Khair point being, i am not going against the topic. What QOM? What bs is this. There is only Pakistan? My country first. Religion is personal. Until you learn to distinguish what is needed and what is desired it wont make a dent. Now queue your Punjabi diatribe, i gave you a very valid reasoning. Most educated province, prosperous, wealthy, and influential in the Independence of this country. Do you really think they wont have a majority. It's basic.

We saw what PPP did to Punjab during its tenure, this provice paid the highest percentages of the bill, least defaulters, yet was hit the hardest by black outs. Yet i have yet to see people say anything regarding Sindhis this, pakhtoons that, balochis this. The Punjabis are very patient by nature, I'm from KHI and i have yet to see anyone treat me different or even complain.

Now you come on the matter of common folks, we are a 70% illiterate country. Basic necessities are not available to us, do you really think a common folk cares about what we people from a higher background care. Unke pass din guzarna azaab hai. Their opinions are of a better economy. Plus the rest of them are so gullible label anything with Islam and they will not question it. Such is the state of our religion, no one questions it.

Until and unless you doubt your religion, research about it yourself you arent a complete Muslim. But we'd rather listen to a maulvi with zero interpretational skill of religion but rather who would call his mufti and **** out a fatwa.

You can call me Anari when infact i am closer to a lot of the mess this country produces. The amount of hate filled people i interact would amaze you. Ready to kill just because some one is Shia, or Ahmedi. When asked for a reason none of them had an answer, if they did it would be along the lines that USA gives them aid BS or kafir, when they had zero grasp over their religion. Jab deen ke sawaal ka jawab nahin to hum kafir. Such is my job, i sleep happy at nights knowing i make a difference however minute.

Sab se Pahle Pakistan.

Thank you for reading the piece and commenting. I agree that the intolerance we have is distrubing and so is the hate we are seeing. I hope we can go towards a better nation.

 

[jaibi]

Thanks for such a long reply; I would not answer in detail for several reasons including that we are already rather off topic! but a very brief statement in points:
1) You mix things a lot; you are mixing time frame; your arguments have anachronism and thus they are invalid;
2) you have also mixed linguistic and Religious argument- linguistic and Religious divisions are two different things: when you compare ethnic/linguistic diversity keep it to ethnic/linguistic and when you discuss religious aspect keep it religious; this is the basic rule which you fell short of observing.
3) With time we develop the habit of hearing and seeing what we like; your write-up shows this symptom a great deal. e.g.
you remember Obama was blamed for being Muslim, but You forget that he cleared his name after asserting he was christian
You remember Lebanon has two different religions symbolized, but you forget they have almost 50% non-Muslim population


I do not want to continue as I do not think that your arguments stand anywhere in academic world (which is the world of my sort);
Lately, there are people out who have been trying to re-write the history and give it a color of their liking; They have no standing in this field;These are their mere wishes; if you ever find an authentic book- a sort of PhD- thesis supporting your views, I would be more than interested.
For the time being, I would quote somebody's words from across the border written for the similar version of history you propose, he said " You are indulging in your own wish world"- but, people are not literate to understand this comment!
Anyway thank you for nice dialogue.

To the relevant point: we can achieve peace with firm stance on militancy without changing any other thing- if there is any change required it is in the military mindset itself nothing else.

P.S. The Military has (and had) to do nothing- things will/would get OK if they just follow the civil leadership and surrender their some interests at least. (yahya and musharaf were more than disappointments; zia and ayub had their own short comings)
And yes one more thing: I think Pakistani Army also shouts ALLAH-HO_AKBAR at the time of attack( or someone has banned it too in order to avoid mistaken identity?)
Thanks

Chalo at least you haven't threatened me for being a non-Pakistani. At least we are talking sanely. Secondly, my arguments have no dialectics as you have claimed and on that base cannot be dismissed. It is defaming the source, brother.
Thirdly, the nature of people's identity formation and culture is strongly influenced by language. The European nationalist wars were based on language as far as WWII so, your dismisal of it is incorrect. The same force stays in Pakistan, language is the reason we enjoy Indian movies and once we are beyond our borders have an affinity to the 'Desi' identity. I am surprised you would negate language but I don't blame you most Pakistanis have vehemently tried to supress language since Pakistan's inception with the insistance that Urdu is supreme. That however is a fault of the Pakistani mentalitiy and is wrong on all accounts. Let's hold our exchange for a better thread.

Regards.

 

[Zarvan]

Zarvan, thank you for reading my piece, if you read it, that is.

Secondly, regarding your assertion that the Taliban are unbeatable, that is completely wrong. They are beatable, our military has done a better job against them than the USA. They are totally beatable and have suffered military defeats on every battle.
This myth of their infallibility has been nurtured falsely by the number of terrorist attacks perhaps or the right-wing propoganda. The increase of terrorist incidents actually indicates that their military strenght is declining. So is their recruitment drive. The public support they once enjoyed has faded.

Thirdly, in total number the entire terrorist network does not exceed 35,000 and that was in 2009-10, they have been decreased substantially by military actions. The Afghani Talibs have become political for this reason, all militia armed groups turn political once their military arm weakens and our TTP has not been able to become political because they do not enjoy public support. They have instead turned heavily to crime.

Thank you for your views, Zarvan but the data contradicts what you are asserting. A well coordinated operation can wipe them out in 3-5 years and by that I mean in all angles: political, military, crime and so on. They are a cancer and cancer is hard but not impossible to cure. The US military is studying our performance because they have been impressed by our performance against TTP.

Our Army has achieved nothing against them Mr TTP never fought against Army when ever Army has entered the area what they do is leave only few hundred behind and escape to other places Mr by every passing year more deaths has taken place and TTP is still their and growing a well coordinated operation would only week for sometime but soon they would gain their power back Mr the only chance you have is wait for 2014 let USA run away from Afghanistan and support Afghan Taliban so they can get rid of USA and than ask Mullah Omar to teach these guys some sense and if he supports you than either TTP would come in main stream or they would become history Mr

 

[rockstarIN]

Zarvan, thank you for reading my piece, if you read it, that is.

Secondly, regarding your assertion that the Taliban are unbeatable, that is completely wrong. They are beatable, our military has done a better job against them than the USA. They are totally beatable and have suffered military defeats on every battle.
This myth of their infallibility has been nurtured falsely by the number of terrorist attacks perhaps or the right-wing propoganda. The increase of terrorist incidents actually indicates that their military strenght is declining. So is their recruitment drive. The public support they once enjoyed has faded.

Thirdly, in total number the entire terrorist network does not exceed 35,000 and that was in 2009-10, they have been decreased substantially by military actions. The Afghani Talibs have become political for this reason, all militia armed groups turn political once their military arm weakens and our TTP has not been able to become political because they do not enjoy public support. They have instead turned heavily to crime.

Thank you for your views, Zarvan but the data contradicts what you are asserting. A well coordinated operation can wipe them out in 3-5 years and by that I mean in all angles: political, military, crime and so on. They are a cancer and cancer is hard but not impossible to cure. The US military is studying our performance because they have been impressed by our performance against TTP.

Agree with you.

For this, you need a strong Army Chief and political will...there are a lot of sympathizers in the population.

Negotiation should only happen from a position of strength. It should be a step by stop operation, it is exactly the same scenario in India like Maoists(but not much violent, since they will lose public support if they gets more active with blood ) . They have public support as well as good number of cadres. First the source of new cadres should be neutralized, then the money weapons etc. All you need political will and strong army. The amount of terror they are doing in your country requires stern action instead of verbal threat.

 

[jaibi]

Our Army has achieved nothing against them Mr TTP never fought against Army when ever Army has entered the area what they do is leave only few hundred behind and escape to other places Mr by every passing year more deaths has taken place and TTP is still their and growing a well coordinated operation would only week for sometime but soon they would gain their power back Mr the only chance you have is wait for 2014 let USA run away from Afghanistan and support Afghan Taliban so they can get rid of USA and than ask Mullah Omar to teach these guys some sense and if he supports you than either TTP would come in main stream or they would become history Mr

Well, Zarvan, if you will not read and see the data and hold on to your own positions more influenced by your political views rather than cold hard facts then there is little anyone can do about that. I will not try to convince you that the epistemology has credibility because you seem to be too narrow minded for that.

 

[Zarvan]

Well, Zarvan, if you will not read and see the data and hold on to your own positions more influenced by your political views rather than cold hard facts then there is little anyone can do about that. I will not try to convince you that the epistemology has credibility because you seem to be too narrow minded for that.

Sir I know that data Mr most Taliban never bother to fight when Army enters Area they just leave the area so they can return and now a days Taliban are returning to Swat Mr and they are also back in Bajur and other Areas they haven't entered valleys they are sitting on Mountains and Army is doing nothing Mr

 

[jaibi]

Agree with you.

For this, you need a strong Army Chief and political will...there are a lot of sympathizers in the population.

Negotiation should only happen from a position of strength. It should be a step by stop operation, it is exactly the same scenario in India like Maoists(but not much violent, since they will lose public support if they gets more active with blood ) . They have public support as well as good number of cadres. First the source of new cadres should be neutralized, then the money weapons etc. All you need political will and strong army. The amount of terror they are doing in your country requires stern action instead of verbal threat.

Hopefully with a battle hardened chief who might come we might be able to push the Sharif co. into action but the political will seems unlikely to muster up.

 

[jaibi]

Sir I know that data Mr most Taliban never bother to fight when Army enters Area they just leave the area so they can return and now a days Taliban are returning to Swat Mr and they are also back in Bajur and other Areas they haven't entered valleys they are sitting on Mountains and Army is doing nothing Mr

Then who fights if they leave? It is not that easy to leave with a force coming to hunt you down. The only problem is that they assimilate into the locals and once the army lowers its patrols the civilian government is unable to have its writ on the area and thus the army has to come back again. The militants get hurt when the army comes, these men are cowards for their own skins. Plus with the repeated assault by the PAF their area of influence is being narrowed down. The battle of Tirah valley shows that, the army goes where these rats go. Secondly, even for the Afghani government it is problematic to have the influx of the TTP as it would invariably strengthen their own chapter of the Talibs. Hopefully the Afghani government will wake up and support the Pakistani effort.

Zarvan, the problem is not the Talibs but our clarity about fighting them. In 2009 there was much skepticism about our military's actions but as of now militarily we have shown great resilience as always expected of our nation. However, on the political front there has been much sympathy for the TTP in the start and criticism of the military action. The reality is that in terms of pure military action compared to Iraq, Afghanistan our COIN effort has yielded much more fruit. Sadly we are still divided about our course of action.

 

[Zarvan]

Then who fights if they leave? It is not that easy to leave with a force coming to hunt you down. The only problem is that they assimilate into the locals and once the army lowers its patrols the civilian government is unable to have its writ on the area and thus the army has to come back again. The militants get hurt when the army comes, these men are cowards for their own skins. Plus with the repeated assault by the PAF their area of influence is being narrowed down. The battle of Tirah valley shows that, the army goes where these rats go. Secondly, even for the Afghani government it is problematic to have the influx of the TTP as it would invariably strengthen their own chapter of the Talibs. Hopefully the Afghani government will wake up and support the Pakistani effort.

Zarvan, the problem is not the Talibs but our clarity about fighting them. In 2009 there was much skepticism about our military's actions but as of now militarily we have shown great resilience as always expected of our nation. However, on the political front there has been much sympathy for the TTP in the start and criticism of the military action. The reality is that in terms of pure military action compared to Iraq, Afghanistan our COIN effort has yielded much more fruit. Sadly we are still divided about our course of action.

They leave only few hundred behind and our forces are fooled and they think they cleared the area and got all of them and after some time they return back and start hitting back they are now slowly doing same in Swat and Bajur and other areas and Afghani government finds it hard to control Kabul they would support you and Iraq is again unstable and Afghanistan is going to fall to Taliban once again Sir that is why Afghan government begs Pakistan to release Taliban leaders so sad and repeated assaults by PAF has grown their support MR because these operations have led to killing of thousands of children and women and innocent civilians who had nothing to do with this war and many of their family members have joined the TTP now Sir
No government uses Air Force its own people Sir even USA can't avoid killing civilians when they use Air Force you don't have that technology even Mr

 

[jaibi]

They leave only few hundred behind and our forces are fooled and they think they cleared the area and got all of them and after some time they return back and start hitting back they are now slowly doing same in Swat and Bajur and other areas and Afghani government finds it hard to control Kabul they would support you and Iraq is again unstable and Afghanistan is going to fall to Taliban once again Sir that is why Afghan government begs Pakistan to release Taliban leaders so sad and repeated assaults by PAF has grown their support MR because these operations have led to killing of thousands of children and women and innocent civilians who had nothing to do with this war and many of their family members have joined the TTP now Sir
No government uses Air Force its own people Sir even USA can't avoid killing civilians when they use Air Force you don't have that technology even Mr

Like I said, Zarvan, in terms of pure military we are beating the TTP however, politically, they are still intimidating our government and our people. Granted there are many controversial tactics used but do remember we were a conventional force fighting an asymmetrical enemy.

 

[Zarvan]

Like I said, Zarvan, in terms of pure military we are beating the TTP however, politically, they are still intimidating our government and our people. Granted there are many controversial tactics used but do remember we were a conventional force fighting an asymmetrical enemy.

Sir they never bother to fight you Mr they leave few hundred behind and even to get rid of those few hundred you take few months Mr live in your dreams those will be soon busted