A Coincidence or a Deliberate Act?

[Leader]

Come on now, don't just make the claim, offer an argument -- "what are they to lose?", you seriously want readers to think that US policy is designed to alienate a nuclear power that can help make or break their policy objectives??

Listen up guys, gals - Talib leadership in Pakistan must and will be eradicated - if you want to make your politics all about keeping them alive so that your politics can record a win, you will be disappointed. -- but look, what was the point of talking to the Talib?, It was to enable them to give up militancy and return to the normal, right?? And the Talib, whether Wali ur Rahman or Hakimullah or whatever, proved that they wanted such talks exactly how?? By killing and bombing ANP? By Bombings and assassination in KHI??

You are reasonable people and you endeavor for a purpose, the talks are a means to an an end, not an end in itself.

can you state what US objective in the region is ?

p.s. and dont try give any value to pakistan by calling her nuclear state as far as the foreign affairs are concern.

 

[haviZsultan]

Its been heard that the guy killed in drone attack was among those who were in favor of negotiations and dialogue. Its definitely not a coincidence.

You are right. It is Hakimullah who needed to be targetted and killed. Hakimullah Mehsud is the head of the Pakistani Taliban and has never been in favor of negotiations. Wali Ur Rehman was a terrorist but he was ready to negotiate peace and had been trying to convince Hakimullah to talk peace.

Talking peace with these bearded barbarians is a callous decision. It requires selling our souls. How can the killers of 40,000 Pakistanis be left alone?

 

[muse]

PTI lawmaker was killed in Hangu, lets see how many dead PTI it will take before our "friends of Angry Brothers" get some sense kicked in to their heads

 

[RabzonKhan]

On March 27, 2004 Shakai agreement was signed to bring peace in the region. This pact was sabotaged on June 19, 2004 when Nek Muhammad was killed by a drone strike. On May 29, 2013 Wali ur Rehman was killed by a drone strike, just two days before a new Govt in KPK and Islamabad was to sworn in and subsequently starting negotiations. Is it a co-incidence or preempting the peace process?

This is one of the most often repeated lies of Taliban apologists.

Note: this is not a personal attack on AstanoshKhan because I really don't know if he is a Taliban apologist or just a victim of their propaganda.

I don’t have time now, but I will reply with details tomorrow.

 

[pkuser2k12]

Wali killed on a tip-off by Hakimullah supporter – The Express Tribune

i heard a new analyst saying that wali ur rehman attacked nato supplies and thats why they killed him.



this guy hakimullah is the real snake .he does not want peace talks and he wants all factions of TTP to fight with PA.

so he targets army and parliamentarians AND HE GAINS FROM THIS IN A WAY THAT how can army and government held peace talks when Taliban killing army men and parliamentarians


also USA drone any Taliban commander to sabotage peace talks AND THEY GAINS FROM THIS IN A WAY THAT how can Taliban factions agree on peace talks when their leaders are killed in drone strikes

it is a game of rented killers faction of TTP and USA so that their can be no peace.

it is easy for army to squash 10,000 non compliant and peace rejection Taliban but they sabotage talks and kill Taliban leaders so that army have to fight all 50,000 or 100,000 of them.The more of them the more damage to Pakistan and Pakistan army

 

[Thirdfront]

What peace treaty, may I ask? IMO, peace treaty equals to complete/partial surrender of pak govt in front of ttp. ttp, in turn will get time to regroup and their moral will be sky high after bringing a govt with tanks and fighter jets to it's knees. Then it will only be years if not months before ttp renews it's bid to occupy further grounds/powers in side pak.

 

[pkuser2k12]

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^


you should bomb nixals until they are finished and don't ever stop killing them with army or paramilitary operations also now start operation in Indian Punjab as your government claims Pakistan is again helping Sikhs in khalistan movement

also USA is helping terrorists by leaving they should stay and surge army in Afghanistan for the sake of peace in the region

keep fighting all the time and no talks.formula for everyone

 

[RabzonKhan]

Originally Posted by AstanoshKhan View Post

On March 27, 2004 Shakai agreement was signed to bring peace in the region. This pact was sabotaged on June 19, 2004 when Nek Muhammad was killed by a drone strike. On May 29, 2013 Wali ur Rehman was killed by a drone strike, just two days before a new Govt in KPK and Islamabad was to sworn in and subsequently starting negotiations. Is it a co-incidence or preempting the peace process?

As I said, this is one of the most often repeated lies of Taliban apologists.

Although I do not think Shakai agreement was a peace treaty, in my opinion, it was a shameful surrender by our government, but that discussion is for some other time.

I'm going to debunk this crap (that American drone killed the so-called peace agreement) step by step.

So, here I go:

First of all, Shakai agreement was not signed on March 27, in fact, it was signed on April 24, 2004.
Nek Muhammad and his fellow terrorists were given amnesty on the condition that they will surrender foreign terrorists that they were sheltering and supporting to the government of Pakistan with in a weeks time. A

The United States welcomed the agreement:

Daily Times - Leading News Resource of Pakistan
Sunday, April 25, 2004

‘Gen Hussain said the foreign militants had until April 30 to surrender and receive a pardon or he would send troops after them. He also announced the release of 50 tribesmen arrested last month. The corps commander said others who were found innocent would also be freed. Gen Hussain announced Rs 90.1 million for development in Waziristan.”

“US Lieutenant Colonel Matt Beevers told a news briefing in Kabul he welcomed the negotiated settlement in Shakai.”

Taliban are not just blood thirsty barbarians but are also notorious liars and Nek Muhammad was no exception, not only did he fail to surrender the foreign terrorists but the liar out rightly denied that he had made any such promise.

Even though the government had given the scumbag one week to surrender foreign terrorist but waited almost for two months before it rightfully decided to revoke the amnesty deal, after the government’s announcement he declared war on Pakistan and attacked two military checkpoints, killing almost 30 security forces jawans.

Daily Times - Leading News Resource of Pakistan
June 12, 2004

The government has decided to ‘revoke’ the amnesty deal it made on April 24 with renegade Wazir tribesman Nek Mohammad and his four accomplices. We are told this decision has been taken because Nek Mohammad and his companions have failed to honour their word and get the foreign militants hiding in the South Waziristan area to register with the government. By all indications the government has merely done on its side what Nek Mohammad did a couple of weeks ago when he came to the Jirga in Wana and told the tribal elders that they should stay out of the business of searching out and getting the foreigners to register since they had absolutely no knowledge of the deal.

Since then, Nek Mohammad has declared war on the state and claimed responsibility for two attacks on military checkpoints in the area. Those attacks have already resulted in more than 30 casualties.

On June 18, 2004 ISPR Director-General Maj-Gen Shaukat Sultan told the media that Nek Mohammad was killed by the security forces, and when he was asked that there ware rumors that he was killed by the Americans, he denied it and said it is “absolutely absurd”, but now the truth is out and everyone knows that he was killed by a drone, quite frankly, Gen saheb was lying, but can't blame him for that lying and deception is part of war propaganda.

Now we also know that it was actually Pakistan who got him killed by the American after reaching a deal with the United States.

Interestedly, Gen. Pervez Musharraf recently has also admitted that he was killed by an American drone and that Pakistan did take America's help in some operations.

Night raid kills Nek, four other militants: Wana operation -DAWN - Top Stories; 19 June, 2004
Night raid kills Nek, four other militants: Wana operation
19 June 2004

"We have various means and a full array of weapons at our disposal. We have artillery that can fire with precision and we have helicopters with night vision capability which can fire guided missiles. But I am not going to give out operational secrets on how he was killed," ISPR Director-General Maj-Gen Shaukat Sultan told Dawn by phone from Islamabad.

"Absolutely absurd," was his response when asked about rumours that Nek Mohammad had been killed with the US assistance. "Intelligence is like a jigsaw puzzle, it does not come from a single source on a single time," Gen Sultan said.”

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_ydz0-QmY9g
Published on Apr 11, 2013
Speaking to former Pakistani President Musharraf, CNN reports on a secret drone deal Pakistan had with the U.S.

“Musharraf said that one of those killed by U.S. drones was Nek Mohammed, a tribal leader accused of harboring al Qaeda militants in Pakistan's western border region. At the time, in June 2004, Pakistan intelligence sources said Mohammed died after Pakistani forces launched a missile at a house where he was staying.”

So, how many of you still believe that the American drone killed the peace?


Now, I would like to briefly comment on Wali-ur-Rehman, when the Pakistani establishment was spreading rumors that there was a split between him and Mehsud and that he wanted peace with Pakistan, on February 2013 he appeared in a video with Hakimullah Mehsud and reaffirmed his loyalty to him and then both of them praised Al Qaeda and its global jihad, and again on May 14, 2013 in a video message he strongly condemned democracy in Pakistan.

So does that sounds a message of a peaceful man or a message of a global terrorist?

All the circumstances evidence shows that his killing was a joint venture between US and Pakistan and the time will prove this.

 

[Bratva]

As I said, this is one of the most often repeated lies of Taliban apologists.

Although I do not think Shakai agreement was a peace treaty, in my opinion, it was a shameful surrender by our government, but that discussion is for some other time.

I'm going to debunk this crap (that American drone killed the so-called peace agreement) step by step.

So, here I go:

First of all, Shakai agreement was not signed on March 27, in fact, it was signed on April 24, 2004.
Nek Muhammad and his fellow terrorists were given amnesty on the condition that they will surrender foreign terrorists that they were sheltering and supporting to the government of Pakistan with in a weeks time. A

The United States welcomed the agreement:


Taliban are not just blood thirsty barbarians but are also notorious liars and Nek Muhammad was no exception, not only did he fail to surrender the foreign terrorists but the liar out rightly denied that he had made any such promise.

Even though the government had given the scumbag one week to surrender foreign terrorist but waited almost for two months before it rightfully decided to revoke the amnesty deal, after the government’s announcement he declared war on Pakistan and attacked two military checkpoints, killing almost 30 security forces jawans.


On June 18, 2004 ISPR Director-General Maj-Gen Shaukat Sultan told the media that Nek Mohammad was killed by the security forces, and when he was asked that there ware rumors that he was killed by the Americans, he denied it and said it is “absolutely absurd”, but now the truth is out and everyone knows that he was killed by a drone, quite frankly, Gen saheb was lying, but can't blame him for that lying and deception is part of war propaganda.

Now we also know that it was actually Pakistan who got him killed by the American after reaching a deal with the United States.

Interestedly, Gen. Pervez Musharraf recently has also admitted that he was killed by an American drone and that Pakistan did take America's help in some operations.




So, how many of you still believe that the American drone killed the peace?


Now, I would like to briefly comment on Wali-ur-Rehman, when the Pakistani establishment was spreading rumors that there was a split between him and Mehsud and that he wanted peace with Pakistan, on February 2013 he appeared in a video with Hakimullah Mehsud and reaffirmed his loyalty to him and then both of them praised Al Qaeda and its global jihad, and again on May 14, 2013 in a video message he strongly condemned democracy in Pakistan.

So does that sounds a message of a peaceful man or a message of a global terrorist?

All the circumstances evidence shows that his killing was a joint venture between US and Pakistan and the time will prove this.

Only a day after the famous Shakai agreement with Pakistan's military in April 2004, in a long interview with the Voice of America Pashto Correspondent Mukhtar Ahmad, Nek Mohammad disclosed that he would never abandon his jihad against the US and other allied forces in Afghanistan. A few miles away from Wana, in this face-to-face radio interview, Mohammad vowed to continue his support for Al-Qaeda and Taliban, and argued that no peace agreement with the Pakistani government can compel him to force the Al-Qaeda fighters and other foreign militants to leave the Pakistan's tribal area.

 

[Marwat Khan Lodhi]

Only a day after the famous Shakai agreement with Pakistan's military in April 2004, in a long interview with the Voice of America Pashto Correspondent Mukhtar Ahmad, Nek Mohammad disclosed that he would never abandon his jihad against the US and other allied forces in Afghanistan. A few miles away from Wana, in this face-to-face radio interview, Mohammad vowed to continue his support for Al-Qaeda and Taliban, and argued that no peace agreement with the Pakistani government can compel him to force the Al-Qaeda fighters and other foreign militants to leave the Pakistan's tribal area.

And due to this reason Pak army requested America to drone him...starting a chain reaction
Today haqqani network is sheltering alqaida and uzbeks and people are calling good taliban...nek mohammad agreed to focus on afghanistan, was not that enough?

 

[Bratva]

And due to this reason Pak army requested America to drone him...starting a chain reaction
Today haqqani network is sheltering alqaida and uzbeks and people are calling good taliban...nek mohammad agreed to focus on afghanistan, was not that enough?

une 12, 2004

The government has decided to ‘revoke’ the amnesty deal it made on April 24 with renegade Wazir tribesman Nek Mohammad and his four accomplices. We are told this decision has been taken because Nek Mohammad and his companions have failed to honour their word and get the foreign militants hiding in the South Waziristan area to register with the government. By all indications the government has merely done on its side what Nek Mohammad did a couple of weeks ago when he came to the Jirga in Wana and told the tribal elders that they should stay out of the business of searching out and getting the foreigners to register since they had absolutely no knowledge of the deal.

Since then, Nek Mohammad has declared war on the state and claimed responsibility for two attacks on military checkpoints in the area. Those attacks have already resulted in more than 30 casualties.

Source: http://www.defence.pk/forums/pakistans-war/256019-coincidence-deliberate-act-2.html#ixzz2Vw6YR3bi

 

[RabzonKhan]

Only a day after the famous Shakai agreement with Pakistan's military in April 2004, in a long interview with the Voice of America Pashto Correspondent Mukhtar Ahmad, Nek Mohammad disclosed that he would never abandon his jihad against the US and other allied forces in Afghanistan. A few miles away from Wana, in this face-to-face radio interview, Mohammad vowed to continue his support for Al-Qaeda and Taliban, and argued that no peace agreement with the Pakistani government can compel him to force the Al-Qaeda fighters and other foreign militants to leave the Pakistan's tribal area.

Few days after the deal, he was also bragging that the General had come to meet him inside a Madrasa rather than in a public place where tribal meetings are generally held, he also said; “I did not go to them; they came to my place,” and “That should make it clear who surrendered to whom.”

And then after a few days he completely denies that he had made any promise to surrender foreign terrorists. He also started intimidating the tribal leaders who had witnessed the whole deal and were supporting government position, there were even reports in the media that some of the tribal leaders were killed by his men.

You see, that was my point, how one can trust such untrustworthy bastards, they are an insult and embarrassment to most Pashtuns, because Pashtuns/ Pathans are men of honor (my dada jee was from the Tokhi tribe) who stand by their words.

Now having said that, I'm not against negotiations, but there are certain rules that must be followed:

1. The government should always negotiate from the position of strength.

2. The negotiations should be on the government's terms, not on terrorist terms.

Unfortunately, so far, all the deals that the military establishment and the politicians have made with the terrorists have been total surrender.

 

[Marwat Khan Lodhi]

Few days after the deal, he was also bragging that the General had come to meet him inside a Madrasa rather than in a public place where tribal meetings are generally held, he also said; ¡°I did not go to them; they came to my place,¡± and ¡°That should make it clear who surrendered to whom.¡±

And then after a few days he completely denies that he had made any promise to surrender foreign terrorists. He also started intimidating the tribal leaders who had witnessed the whole deal and were supporting government position, there were even reports in the media that some of the tribal leaders were killed by his men.

You see, that was my point, how one can trust such untrustworthy bastards, they are an insult and embarrassment to most Pashtuns, because Pashtuns/ Pathans are men of honor (my dada jee was from the Tokhi tribe) who stand by their words.

Now having said that, I'm not against negotiations, but there are certain rules that must be followed:

1. The government should always negotiate from the position of strength.

2. The negotiations should be on the government's terms, not on terrorist terms.

Unfortunately, so far, all the deals that the military establishment and the politicians have made with the terrorists have been total surrender.

You are a grandson of a tokhi tribal yet you dont know about traditions of pashtun. General safdar didnt know pashtun traditions and he made the mistake of going to nek mohammad place to sign deal, it is percieved as sign of weakness and defeat among pakhtuns...you are supposed to meet on neutral ground to make deal.

Also when foriegn militants didnt appear for registration so pak army revoked the peace deal and started military operation against him and soon killed him through drone....it was a blunder to kill him....he was talking to you through jirga and tribal elders, was not doing any suicide bombings or beheadings....now you have TTP who dont believe in jirga and hujra and believe in by hook or by crook.
Go to wana, grave of nek mohamad has become shrine and all wazirs have great respect for him.

 

[Marwat Khan Lodhi]

Moreover Pak army had no choice but to make peace deal with nek mohmmad because they took heavy casaulties from him in every clash....at that time pakistan army was totally unfamiliar with waziristan and had entered there for the first time since 1947.
Perhaps pak army got panicked and made peace deal with him in haste.....
At that time the issue of foriegn militants was not like nowadays. They were their highly respected guests and for them they were the mujahideen of Afghan jihad of 80s. It was pakistani establishment in the first place who asked tribals to give mehman nawazi to foriegn mujahideens.
In 2004 and before, there was unimaginable anger among tribals against American invasion of afghanistan. There was anger on pakistan's betrayal of taliban. Anti-musharaf sentiments were high. And at such sensitive time you entered into their area and were asking them to hand over foriegner guests and that on america's orders? And used force on their refusal...
It was a blunder of the century.

 

[RabzonKhan]

You are a grandson of a tokhi tribal yet you dont know about traditions of pashtun. General safdar didnt know pashtun traditions and he made the mistake of going to nek mohammad place to sign deal, it is percieved as sign of weakness and defeat among pakhtuns...you are supposed to meet on neutral ground to make deal.

I am very much aware of this practice, but I don't know how you concluded that I wasn't aware of it, my dear, this is also a tradition in Punjab, in fact it is practiced all most all over the world, it's based on common sense, and it is not some top-secret Pashtun tradition that nobody is aware of.

In my previous post I was criticizing Nek Mohammad for bragging and the way he was throwing cheap shots at the government after the deal, though technically speaking the bastard was hundred percent right, and that’s why in my first post in this thread I said “Although I do not think Shakai agreement was a peace treaty, in my opinion, it was a shameful surrender by our government, but that discussion is for some other time.”

Why I think it was a surrender:

The military establishment made many blunders, after badly losing the battles in the towns of Kaloosha and Shin Warsak at the hands of foreign terrorists and local traitors, it made a very disgraceful and a horrible decision by sending Gen. Safdar Hussain to Nek Mohammad place and garlanding him, making this former car thief and a foot soldier of Afghan-Taliban a hero overnight, releasing several hard-core terrorists, paying the terrorists including Nek Mohammad millions of rupees, and in return the government got nothing but a black face, nothing surprising there, that's exactly what you get when you try to negotiate from the position of weakness.

Also when foriegn militants didnt appear for registration so pak army revoked the peace deal and started military operation against him and soon killed him through drone....it was a blunder to kill him....he was talking to you through jirga and tribal elders, was not doing any suicide bombings or beheadings....now you have TTP who dont believe in jirga and hujra and believe in by hook or by crook.
Go to wana, grave of nek mohamad has become shrine and all wazirs have great respect for him.

The government gave him one week to surrender foreign terrorists, but it waited for almost 2 months before it rightfully decided to revoke the amnesty, but meanwhile the government in that two-month period encouraged the tribal leaders to find a solution and try to resolve the issue, but when even the tribal leaders failed to convince Nek Mohammad and his terrorists buddies, the government had enough.

As soon as the government announced that it was revoking the amnesty, it was Nek Mohammad who declared war on the government and attacked and killed almost 30 security forces jawans.
Through his actions, it was quite clear that Nek Mohammad had joined the global jihadist (Al Qaeda, Uzbek and Chechen terrorist) to kill his countrymen, the tribal system was of no use to him.

In the towns of Kaloosha and Shin Warsak bloodsucking traitors like Nek Mohammad had joined hands with foreign terrorists (Al Qaeda, Uzbek and Chechen terrorist) to kill his own civilian and security forces jawans “almost 50 soldiers in 12 days of fighting were killed”, source: the scorpion’s tail by Zahid Hussain.

But, I'm a little surprised why an ultra-nationalist Pashtun have a soft corner for a global jihadist?

I think you need to update yourself, he was no hero but a bloodsucking traitor just like Baitullah Mehsud, Fazlullah, Waliur Rahman and Hakimullah Mehsud just to name a few.