98% of Chinese would reject receiving refugees: online poll

[Cybernetics]

I think the main problem of HK are very high housing price and lack of mobility of social class for young people. I hardly see anything related to those three protections you mentioned. But we HK people in fact protest a lots for many things.

HK is a city controlled by the big real estate families. It actually has a lot of land to develop but certain laws prevents it. It would still be an important financial hub in the future but its relative edge would be eroded due to greater opening and development of mainland cities. The solution I see is better connectivity and mobility with the Mainland, quite a lot of talent comes from HK and the Mainland is a big market.

So long as HK government doesn't restrict building on the land, the high housing price is just a side effect of economical growth. But it is strange to lack of mobility among social classes. After all, HK is one of the freest place economically. Such a lack of mobility, without governmental restriction, could only be caused by affluence itself. As people get richer, their fighting spirit fades. Younger generations, which never experienced hardship, are so used to the wealth that they don't realize it is only the result of the hard works and daring ventures of their forefathers.

Some rich people tend to lose their fighting spirit but would still build a moat to protect their assets which often hinders social mobility, eventually stagnating the economy. Pure capitalism in certain environments eventually extinguishes itself. Social and economic vibrancy comes from the grassroots.

 

[nang2]

Some rich people tend to lose their fighting spirit but would still build a moat to protect their assets which often hinders social mobility, eventually stagnating the economy. Pure capitalism in certain environments eventually extinguishes itself. Social and economic vibrancy comes from the grassroots.

So long as the moat is not enforced by the government, it is always vulnerable to challengers. But that also requires the challengers have the ability to challenge with their new innovations.

It actually has a lot of land to develop but certain laws prevents it.

Really? That just proves that where ever you see high housing price, there is always tough government restriction on land. Same is true in bay area, California and New York.

 

[bbccdd1470]

The solution I see is better connectivity and mobility with the Mainland, quite a lot of talent comes from HK and the Mainland is a big market.

There is the way for our future, however, our enemy also know it and that's why you can see a lot of anti-China news in HK to distort the relationship between China and HK. What worse is many young people don't have the long sight and easily mislead to hate the mainland Chinese, as well the raising regionalism.

But that also requires the challengers have the ability to challenge with their new innovations.

This is one of the reasons why some young people losing the chance to move upward due to lack of ability and greater challenge from mainland students.

 

[nang2]

This is one of the reasons why some young people losing the chance to move upward due to lack of ability and greater challenge from mainland students.

And they feel bitter in the defeat. But they feel even more bitter if they have to blame themselves for it so it is much more soothing to blame it on China government. A perfect recipe for brooding a mass movement. Check Eric Hoffer's classic work -- "The True Believer".

 

[Cybernetics]

There is the way for our future, however, our enemy also know it and that's why you can see a lot of anti-China news in HK to distort the relationship between China and HK. What worse is many young people don't have the long sight and easily mislead to hate the mainland Chinese, as well the raising regionalism.

I don't care too much about the friction that will occur but easing that process is a good idea, that is background noise in the long run and mentally exhausting if one participates too much in the noise. It doesn't matter what people call each other, upset people would be upset regardless. As long as relative stability is maintained and people personally interact with each other through work, education or other activities, long term relations would be positive or workable.

So long as the moat is not enforced by the government, it is always vulnerable to challengers. But that also requires the challengers have the ability to challenge with their new innovations.

The problem is that current systems of developed nations have their moats enforced by the government through a web of laws and institutions. Going by research conducted on policy changes, capital is what dictates policy in reality, even under conditions of an organised but capital lacking populous (as long as old institutions remain intact). Fortunately many developed nations have a generally diversified economy with a developed financial system to mitigate this effect.

https://scholar.princeton.edu/sites...testing_theories_of_american_politics.doc.pdf

Hong Kong doesn't have a well diversified economy, it was specialised due to geographic and historic reasons. Protecting incumbent capital is protecting certain industries that might become irrelevant or destructive if you have too much of it like real estate. The PLA actually studied the negative effects of excessive capital formation in real estate. They were worried about the opportunity cost of capital not going to research/innovation, industry, productive infrastructure, and high end technologies of the general economy for military-civil integration. This is the war between the "real economy" and "virtual economy", hence the distrust of Bitcoins but the love for block-chain technology.

Really? That just proves that where ever you see high housing price, there is always tough government restriction on land. Same is true in bay area, California and New York.

It is reported by some that HK has capacity for 2.8 million more apartment units if laws were loosened, currently being 2.7 million units. In the short term it wouldn't be popular with the existing homeowners but would be good for young people and those that don't own homes.

 

[nang2]

In the short term it wouldn't be popular with the existing homeowners but would be good for young people and those that don't own homes.

That has always been my opinion that popular democracy and market economy don't mix well. The former favors the incumbents while the latter rejoices in competition.

 

[seesonic]

Actually, I would say majority of Hong Konger don't really care about who they are going to be with, as long as things don't change for them, they don't care whether it is Chinese or UK in charge.

There are both pro-China and pro-Independent people in Hong Kong, but I would say both combine would not even reach half of people who simply do not care.

Where did you learnt that from?

10 mins of googling?

 

[bbccdd1470]

Where did you learnt that from?

10 mins of googling?

He had lived in HK for a period of time, and he is not totally wrong. Just today HK people would rather choose to be with China, other than to be independent or be with UK due to the huge benefits we get from China.

 

[jhungary]

I think you are right in some sense, HK people don't usually care who rule them as long as they can gain money but practically be with China is much more beneficial to us. In fact, pro-independent people in HK is actually very few in number. If we are given a choice now to choose rather be with China or independent, I would say majority of us would choose be with China. Again "be with China" doesn't equal to pro-China.

That's why I said in general "Pro-China" and "Pro-Independent" people combine will not be even half of people who don't really care...……

People in Hong Kong are quite apolitical, which come from the British upbringing in colonial era, because the British equate "being political" to being trouble, hence the people who grow up during colonial period did not have any sort of political education.

I am not sure whether or not if people in Hong Kong if given a choice it will stick with China, being apolitical is one thing, depending on how China treat the people in Hong Kong, you may get a different response, but as far as I know from which I have left after the turnover and people and relative I know still in Hong Kong, most think the Chinese is the same as the Brits, as The Who song lyrics, "meet the new boss, same as old boss." People just don't care as long as they can continue bet on horse and continue dancing (You will know what I mean by that in Chinese if you are from Hong Kong)

He had lived in HK for a period of time, and he is not totally wrong. Just today HK people would rather choose to be with China, other than to be independent or be with UK due to the huge benefits we get from China.

You should not mind him, he think I come from SP12 lol.

Strange consider most Chinese here said I am a Vietnamese...

 

[bbccdd1470]

I am not sure whether or not if people in Hong Kong if given a choice it will stick with China, being apolitical is one thing, depending on how China treat the people in Hong Kong, you may get a different response

Now I get what you mean. Sorry for my English, what I'm trying to say that is HK does not have the mean to be independent or be with other country due to our location and our necessities have to depend on China. The best choice we have and what we can get the most is to stay within China "maybe that is a better word". This is not about how you view about the CCP or China, but this is for our survival and future development. Also I understand some people have negative feeling about CCP and this is also true that CCP has its own shortcoming, but we can not deny China did helpe us during our difficult time, like after SARS in 2003. So as a rational person, this is always better to stay with China, in order to get the most benefits.

 

[saltyashell]

Now I get what you mean. Sorry for my English, what I'm trying to say that is HK does not have the mean to be independent or be with other country due to our location and our necessities have to depend on China. The best choice we have and what we can get the most is to stay within China "maybe that is a better word". This is not about how you view about the CCP or China, but this is for our survival and future development. Also I understand some people have negative feeling about CCP and this is also true that CCP has its own shortcoming, but we can not deny China did helpe us during our difficult time, like after SARS in 2003. So as a rational person, this is always better to stay with China, in order to get the most benefits.

What ppl dont understand is that before 1997 hk was already a developed country. Post hk its been forced to mingle with its much poorer cousin.So all the resentment against mainlanders. A rich person is never happy to mix with his lessers.

 

[OIO]

HK was a colony not a country before 1997, HK people never elected governor before 1997.

 

[Kai Liu]

What ppl dont understand is that before 1997 hk was already a developed country. Post hk its been forced to mingle with its much poorer cousin.So all the resentment against mainlanders. A rich person is never happy to mix with his lessers.

Mainland didn't make HK poor by "force to mingle with it"; rather it helped HK went through the financial crisis in 1997, and steadily developed to surpass JP and a lot of EU countries who was far ahead of HK in 1997... This kind of help can also be seen in the case of Macau: Your real daddy will always treat you better than some bandit who kidnapped you to be his son!

 

[jhungary]

Now I get what you mean. Sorry for my English, what I'm trying to say that is HK does not have the mean to be independent or be with other country due to our location and our necessities have to depend on China. The best choice we have and what we can get the most is to stay within China "maybe that is a better word". This is not about how you view about the CCP or China, but this is for our survival and future development. Also I understand some people have negative feeling about CCP and this is also true that CCP has its own shortcoming, but we can not deny China did helpe us during our difficult time, like after SARS in 2003. So as a rational person, this is always better to stay with China, in order to get the most benefits.

Well, that's my point, depending on the pros and cons that comes with the Chinese in charge, if pros more than cons, by definition of don't care, the Hong Konger will be okay with the Chinese, but if the Chinese government changed many thing and that's hurting the HKer, then it won't be okay. At this moment, nothing major is changed since the turnover, for most HKer, it doesn't matter.

On the other hand, if Chinese government started changing the HKer way of life and making major impact to them, that would be another issue.

It may amaze you that I am actually against Hong Kong independence, and I am somewhat against the British Government rules, I want to see the status quo remain. HK independence is a lost clause, it will do more damage to HK than either sticking with the Chinese or UK. And the Brits in my book is the same as the Chinese government. As I said, meet the new boss, same as old boss.

 

[bbccdd1470]

What ppl dont understand is that before 1997 hk was already a developed country. Post hk its been forced to mingle with its much poorer cousin.So all the resentment against mainlanders. A rich person is never happy to mix with his lessers.

People don't understand it is because you guys don't know our history. Let me tell you one thing, HK people are known as the King of smuggling, we smuggle stuffs back to China since China had been isolated. Even before 97, HK people already donated a lot of money back to China whenever disasters were happened. Most of our parents or grandparents were from mainland China themselves, back at the old days many HK people sent money back to help their poor relatives. Most of the resentment from the younger generation toward the mainland Chinese are more about the different values they share, and few of them is just about losing the sense of superiority since the raising of China.

It may amaze you that I am actually against Hong Kong independence, and I am somewhat against the British Government rules, I want to see the status quo remain.

Good to hear it, we may share the different views on the British Government rules, but I respect your opinion.