747-400 Down near Dubai

[x_man]

A UPS cargo plane has been involved in an accident in Dubai.
At approximately 12 p.m. EST, UPS Flight 6 from Dubai, UAE, to Cologne, DE, a 747-400 with two crewmembers on board crashed on takeoff. At this time, we have not confirmed any casualties.

"Safety is a key priority for UPS," said Airline & International Operations Manager Bob Lekites. "This incident is very unfortunate and we will do everything we can to find the cause," said Lekites. "Our thoughts go out to the crewmembers involved in the incident and their families."

"We will also release more information as it becomes available, in cooperation with government authorities. We will not speculate about the cause. Until then, we ask for your patience in this difficult time."

Very sad incident indeed... 2 crew members have perished and no one else was in the aircraft as it was a cargo plane ... No casualties reported on ground yet.

As being reported 747-400 tail number: N571UP was quite new and was delivered in 2007.

 

[x_man]

A cargo plane has crashed near a major motorway in Dubai, according to local officials and media reports.

The plane came down near the Emirates Road, setting some cars on fire, al-Arabiya television reported.

An official quoted by the channel said a fire had broken out in the plane as it attempted to land at Dubai airport.

The official news agency WAM said the plane had come down in an unpopulated area on Friday evening.

 

[x_man]

The aircraft had departed for Cologne, Germany much earlier . The UPS flight declared emergency due to a cockpit fire.... Its difficulties began whilst in Bahrain's airspace and they elected to return to Dubai. On their first approach things got very bad very quickly and they were unable to see their instruments or the airport due to heavy smoke in cockpit.

After attempting a straight in approach for runway 12L at Dubai and getting there high and fast they were suggested to try make it to and alternate Military airfield .

Perhaps they suffered from special orientation while trying to re- join a RH downwind for 12L.

They seemed to be unable to see any flight instrument or radio in the cockpit and they continuously asked for their altitude, speed, heading to Dubai through the rely of other airplanes cause they could not see their own radio panel to switch to UAE Control or Dubai Tower.

Plane was dumping fuel constantly. ... Nearly took out the last set of villas on the Al Ain road side between 311 and 611... then crashed.

God bless the souls of the two crew members.

 

[NWO]

God bless the souls of the two crew members.

I know its kind of cynical, but I'm happy its a cargo plane and not a passenger plane.

 

[Donatello]

Man, i absolutely admire UPS and it's services. The fact that two crew members were serving for the general good, it is very sad.

The attempts they made shows how good they were till the last minute.


very sad indeed.

 

[x_man]

The attempts they made shows how good they were till the last minute.

Fire in the cockpit along with heavy smoke just after Takeoff is just too much workload for only a crew of 2 ( captain/co-pilot) to be reasonably expected to handle on an aircraft of this size and complexity of 747-400.

The classics 747s (100,200,300) have 3 man crew . Capatain, Co-pilot and Flight Engineer. In an emergency, while the pilots concentrate on the control of aircraft and communications, the Flt Eng takes all the vital steps to handle the systems related to emergency.

When Boeing 747-400 reduced from 3 to 2 crew, it was a source of great debate in aviation circle if the right dicision was made to eliminate the Flt Eng.

We can still debate that but it will make no difference. Its a sad day for avition as 2 of their crews were lost today.

 

[Chogy]

Oh no... cockpit fire is one of THE WORST possible scenarios. Even a couple of whiffs of electrical smoke before donning oxygen can poison you somewhat, and make your ability to function limited.

In the Swissair accident off of Halifax, the cockpit fire got so bad that the cockpit crew abandoned the cockpit in flight. Imagine being in that scenario, being forced to leave the controls due to flames and heat, and knowing you are consigning not just yourself but everyone else aboard to death.

Very, very sad. At least (hopefully) no one on the ground was killed.

 

[Ganga]

The aircraft had departed for Cologne, Germany much earlier . The UPS flight declared emergency due to a cockpit fire.... Its difficulties began whilst in Bahrain's airspace and they elected to return to Dubai. On their first approach things got very bad very quickly and they were unable to see their instruments or the airport due to heavy smoke in cockpit.

After attempting a straight in approach for runway 12L at Dubai and getting there high and fast they were suggested to try make it to and alternate Military airfield .

Perhaps they suffered from special orientation while trying to re- join a RH downwind for 12L.

They seemed to be unable to see any flight instrument or radio in the cockpit and they continuously asked for their altitude, speed, heading to Dubai through the rely of other airplanes cause they could not see their own radio panel to switch to UAE Control or Dubai Tower.

Plane was dumping fuel constantly. ... Nearly took out the last set of villas on the Al Ain road side between 311 and 611... then crashed.

God bless the souls of the two crew members.

U mentioned that thy were flying over Bahrain when the aircraft caught fire.In that case why did they turn to Dubai and not land in Bahrain?

 

[Ganga]

Fire in the cockpit along with heavy smoke just after Takeoff is just too much workload for only a crew of 2 ( captain/co-pilot) to be reasonably expected to handle on an aircraft of this size and complexity of 747-400.

The classics 747s (100,200,300) have 3 man crew . Capatain, Co-pilot and Flight Engineer. In an emergency, while the pilots concentrate on the control of aircraft and communications, the Flt Eng takes all the vital steps to handle the systems related to emergency.

When Boeing 747-400 reduced from 3 to 2 crew, it was a source of great debate in aviation circle if the right dicision was made to eliminate the Flt Eng.

We can still debate that but it will make no difference. Its a sad day for avition as 2 of their crews were lost today.

The flight engineers were removed because the job of a FE was now being done by advanced computer systems.

 

[x_man]

U mentioned that thy were flying over Bahrain when the aircraft caught fire.In that case why did they turn to Dubai and not land in Bahrain?

I stated Bahrain Airspace NOT over Bahrain. In commercial aviation world, sometimes the airspace or shall I refer to more technical term of Flight Information Region ( FIR) starts may be 100s of miles before the actual geographical location. For example a flight from Lahore to New Delhi will change over to Delhi FIR even when it crosses Lahore. Similarly flights from North change to Karachi FIR even before Rahim yar Khan.

So in this case while the 747 was with Bahrain FIR , it could have possibly gone to Doha, Qatar or come back to Dubai. Ground Distance from Dubai to Doha is 206 NM. If they were 100 NM from Doha they were practically in equal distance to Dubai, which they knew well and probably also had the Jeppesen approach plates and charts ready for Dubai.

In the end it was the pilots dicision and they chose to come back to Dubai.

The flight engineers were removed because the job of a FE was now being done by advanced computer systems.

Or as some call it that they have put the Engineer in the box.

You are right, the Engineers work is now done by EFIS (Electronic Flight Instrument System) and FMS( flight management system) on 747-400 but still there are so many actions and decisions that a computer cannot take especially in emergencies or some very abnormal conditions. Hence the debate.

I don’t deny the importance of EFIS/FMS , it has revolutionised how the pilots interpret instruments and fly the aircraft. They have actually made things so easy to fly and its all so automated that in Boeing 777, a alarm goes off if the pilot doesn’t touch any switch for 20 minutes or so. The alarm is just to check if the pilots were actually sleeping or not !!! Long haul flights can be bloody boring and one does tend to dose off a bit during long straight navigation legs.