70,000 rally in U.S. to defend labor rights

[JayAtl]

^^^ what you dont get is 18% poorer is 1 million percent richer( exaggerated example) than the chinese. Yes, the govt has to do a better job - but come on- a lower middle class family makes more money than an upper middle class family in china , in major states/ cities. it helps that the US has a lower population too.

 

[Aramsogo]

^^^ what you dont get is 18% poorer is 1 million percent richer( exaggerated example) than the chinese. Yes, the govt has to do a better job - but come on- a lower middle class family makes more money than an upper middle class family in chian , in major states/ cities. a lot has also do with the low population too.

No, it's not. It's because of PPP (a GDP figure Indians love to use). My family is in the top 2% of American income earners, when I go to Beijing I can see than my cousin lives equally well. The improvement in the quality of life of common Chinese people is absolutely real and so is the 18% drop in the US.

 

[JayAtl]

No, it's not. It's because of PPP (a GDP figure Indians love to use). My family is in the top 2% of American income earners, when I go to Beijing I can see than my cousin lives equally well. The improvement in the quality of life of common Chinese people is absolutely real and so is the 18% drop in the US.

come on- do you understand standard of living? living well and standard of living are two different things. what is the mandated minimum wage in china? ...

let me ask you and I'm not being a smart arse here ? would you continue to live in the US, with its freedoms, its opportunities, its standard of living or go back to china? what's your honest answer - what is your preference?

 

[gambit]

You guys just don't get it.

Yes, we do.

The average American family is 18% poorer today inflation adjusted than they were 35 years ago. The average Chinese family is at least 1,000% richer today than 35 years ago. Which government do you think is doing a better job??

But are the living standards the same? You claim to be in DC. I meet plenty of Chinese here in Vegas, either as immigrants or those who travels back and forth between the two countries a lot. Have these Chinese been lying to me all this time when they said the living standards in the US is better?

That's why you see 70,000 people in Wisconsin and a total of 5 protestors in Shanghai/Beijing. Is the Beijing government paranoid?? Yes, absolutely. But so are the Americans. Just look at the American defense budget and US incarceration rates will tell you Americans are equally paranoid.

Total strawmen arguments, especially about the incarceration rate. Such data in no way indicate a supposedly level of paranoia, which is different than violations of crimes.

 

[JayAtl]

^^^ the part I do find extremely ironical is when i have Chinese citing stats, while others have no clue what the " real' stats " are from their country. they fudge it and been caught fudging it many times. so how we compare?incarceration rates as an example?

 

[Aramsogo]

come on- do you understand standard of living? living well and standard of living are two different things. what is the mandated minimum wage in china? ...

let me ask you and I'M not being a smart arse here ? would you continue to live in the US, with its freedoms, its opportunities, its standard of living or go back to china? what's your honest answer - what is your preference?

I am interviewing for capital market jobs in Beijing. Yes, I am absolutely thinking about moving back. I have live/worked in NY, Chicago, SF, & London. I have many college & graduate school friends that have already moved back. Culturally, they are still getting use to it (even though they left China after high school), but there is no real lost in "freedom". My friends are not trying to overthrow the Chinese government nor did they try to join Al Qaeda when living in the US. I strongly believe that vast majority of Chinese people just want to make money and taker care of their family.

 

[gambit]

^^^ the part I do find extremely ironical is when i have Chinese citing stats, while others have no clue what the " real' stats " are from their country. they fudge it and been caught fudging it many times. so how we compare?incarceration rates as an example?

That is why it is so easy for anyone to appear to be...errr...'credible'...aaahhh...whenever they go on their anti-US diatribe binge. Usually every city, county, state, and federal crime statistics are public information. But the bottom line is that these boys simply have no clue on how to interpret and infer what they see.

---------- Post added at 04:48 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:47 PM ----------

I am interviewing for capital market jobs in Beijing. Yes, I am absolutely thinking about moving back. I have live/worked in NY, Chicago, SF, & London. I have many college & graduate school friends that have already moved back. Culturally, they are still getting use to it (even though they left China after high school), but there is no real lost in "freedom". My friends are not trying to overthrow the Chinese government nor did they try to join Al Qaeda when living in the US. I strongly believe that vast majority of Chinese people just want to make money and taker care of their family.

Still tap-dancing around the living standards issue...

 

[Aramsogo]

Yes, we do.


But are the living standards the same? You claim to be in DC. I meet plenty of Chinese here in Vegas, either as immigrants or those who travels back and forth between the two countries a lot. Have these Chinese been lying to me all this time when they said the living standards in the US is better?


Total strawmen arguments, especially about the incarceration rate. Such data in no way indicate a supposedly level of paranoia, which is different than violations of crimes.

No one is saying the standard of living is the same. Read my original statement. Real incomes are 18% less in the US than 35 years ago. The incomes of Chinese people have increased at least 10 fold in the last 35 years. Is that even up for debate?? 35 years ago my cousin had a bicycle and wearing a Mao suit, now he has a VW & a Hyundai and lives in a duplex high-rise. It's obvious to the eye if you've ever been to China

The US incarceration rate is indicative of mass public paranoia about crime and handing out some of the longest sentences in the world for crimes. If 20 years imprisonment for burglary isn't indicative of paranoia, I don't know what is.

 

[kamakazi attack]

why are you guys argueing over the merit of a democratic run country like the US and authoritarian one like China?

can democracy even work in china? look at what's happening in the US...300 millions people and they are divided like never before. you don't think there's a potential for violence? a nut case just went out to shoot a congresswomen leaving a score of people dead. China has 1 billion people, you minds as well have a very very strong centralize govt to call the shot...things just get done way faster and mroe efficient

that beign said I wouldn't want to live in a country where I can't said what I want and watch internet ****.

 

[JayAtl]

why are you guys argueing over the merit of a democratic run country like the US and authoritarian one like China?

can democracy even work in china? look at what's happening in the US...300 millions people and they are divided like never before. you don't think there's a potential for violence? a nut case just went out to shoot a congresswomen leaving a score of people dead. China has 1 billion people, you minds as well have a very very strong centralize govt to call the shot...things just get done way faster and mroe efficient

that beign said I wouldn't want to live in a country where I can't said what I want and watch internet ****.

here is where the fallacy resides.
Fallacy 1- all of those things do not happen in china - like a man on killing spree of babies in a nursery in china.

Fallacy 2- that communist china is the reason for china's success WRONG. if so then for last 10's of decades they would have been the no1 or no2 on GDP. Its because they used western free market policies that they picked themselves from the crapper so as to speak

Fallacy 3- China is going to be a super power. Wrong. To be a superpower you have to own not just a good GDP ( USSR was a super power), but also military bases and lead a NATO like alliance. If all you needed was no 1 or 2 GDP to be superpower- Japan would be called a super power. Ya get what I'm saying?

Fallacy 4- corruption is far more limited under communism. Wrong- if anything govt corruption is at the highest because it also controls all media. accountability does not come to light as much with a free press

 

[JayAtl]

I am interviewing for capital market jobs in Beijing. Yes, I am absolutely thinking about moving back. I have live/worked in NY, Chicago, SF, & London. I have many college & graduate school friends that have already moved back. Culturally, they are still getting use to it (even though they left China after high school), but there is no real lost in "freedom". My friends are not trying to overthrow the Chinese government nor did they try to join Al Qaeda when living in the US. I strongly believe that vast majority of Chinese people just want to make money and taker care of their family.

you belong to a family that is in the top 2% income bracket , and you are going for captial market job in china? so are you willing to give up your US citizenship too? that would be a testament to the claim.

 

[Aramsogo]

you belong to a family that is in the top 2% income bracket , and you are going for captial market job in china? so are you willing to give up your US citizenship too? that would be a testament to the claim.

I would be making ex-pat salary and benefits. I would be working for a Chinese subsidiary of an American bank. I would not give up my US citizenship, because I want my children to go to college in the US or UK. Also, there is no reason to renounce US citizenship.

 

[JayAtl]

While you gave up chinese citizenship for the US... you see what we mean. ' Land of free and oh no I don't care how big our home country is- our babies aint getting educated there! '

Once you do US you don't go back! - it's really is a whole diffrent set of freedoms. freedom of opportunity unlike any other place! plus only place where you will have thousands if not millions of pakistanis, indians, iranians, chinese, russian etc running to reside there or are residing here.

Btw thanks for the civil debate.

 

[Aramsogo]

While you gave up chinese citizenship for the US... you see what we mean. ' Land of free and oh no I don't care how big our home country is- our babies aint getting educated there! '

Once you do US you don't go back! - it really is a whole diffrent set of freedoms. freedom of opportunity unlike any other place!

I'm not a good example. Actually I was born in Taipei, Taiwan to American Citizens of Chinese decent. This gave me automatic American citizenship and I have a US State Department birth certificate. I have held dual Taiwan/US Citizenship since birth. It is impossible to renounce Taiwan citizenship until age 40, so I've never given up any citizenship. I do not consider myself Taiwanese-American. I believe in "One China" and therefore I see myself as Chinese-American.

I have lots of family in China. I know for a fact they are doing much better than I could ever have hoped. In the 1970's, they had one telephone for the entire village. Freedom and humans rights are important, but in Maslow's hierarchy of needs they are much higher needs than basic food and electricity. I believe the higher needs will come to China in my lifetime, but on Chinese terms and with Chinese characteristics. They won't come because the CIA did some "We want food" Twitter and 5 idiots in China showed up.

 

[gambit]

No one is saying the standard of living is the same. Read my original statement. Real incomes are 18% less in the US than 35 years ago. The incomes of Chinese people have increased at least 10 fold in the last 35 years. Is that even up for debate??

Good...Then you should have no problems putting out those differences.

35 years ago my cousin had a bicycle and wearing a Mao suit, now he has a VW & a Hyundai and lives in a duplex high-rise. It's obvious to the eye if you've ever been to China

Me? Am very middle class. My house is 3000 sq/ft on a quarter acre lot with a fully finished basement. I have a Saab sedan, a Toyota light pickup truck, and a Jeep Cherokee, but all are ten yrs or older. Always bought used. But then I ride my bike everywhere, which get me about 40 mpg and a lot more fun to get anywhere.

The US incarceration rate is indicative of mass public paranoia about crime and handing out some of the longest sentences in the world for crimes. If 20 years imprisonment for burglary isn't indicative of paranoia, I don't know what is.

Long prison sentences does not indicate paranoia. To be paranoid, we would have crimes and punishments of thoughts, such as imprisonment for being a member of the communist party or the Ku Klux Klan or the Black Panther.

Communist Party convention opens in New York » cpusa

NEW YORK - Just blocks north of Wall Street here, the site of the biggest crime spree in history, Communist Party Chairman Sam Webb said executives who planned, aided and abetted the theft of wealth and sent the economy into a tailspin deserve to "be in prison." Webb opened the 29th Convention of the Communist Party USA, May 21.

So...If the CPUSA is able to rent a convention hall in NYC, there is no paranoia here. You are confused.