60 years on, 87 Kashmiris want independence

[Contrarian]

60 years on, Kashmir core issue Srinagar, Jammu poles apart

By Amir Wasim and Azfar-ul-Ashfaque


SIXTY years after the independence of the Sub-continent from British rule, the status of Kashmir remains the most contentious issue between Pakistan and India, with a survey showing that a majority of Kashmiris living in Srinagar want to see the disputed territory as an independent country.

This is in marked contrast to the aspirations of not only the people living in India and Pakistan, but also those in Hindu-dominated Jammu, who overwhelmingly favoured the region’s accession to India.

The survey, sponsored by Dawn News, CNN-IBN, Dawn and Indian Express in the last week of July and the first week of this month, was carried out by AC Neilsen in the top 10 cities of Pakistan and by the Centre for the Study of Developing Societies (CSDS) in India’s top 20 cities.

The survey confirms the belief that people of the two countries have many things in common. Although they are dissatisfied with the current economic circumstances of their households, 36.9 per cent in Pakistan and 46.7 per cent people in India are optimistic that their lot will improve in the years to come.

A majority in both countries has faith in democracy.

Although most people in the two countries have no confidence at all in the police, they look up to the courts as an emancipator.

The opinion poll carried a number of questions ranging from political issues and bilateral relations to show business and sports. The pollsters sought the opinion of 1,011 people in urban Pakistan and 2,030 in urban India.

The CSDS conducted a special poll in Srinagar and Jammu city by interviewing 226 and 255 persons respectively.

KASHMIR: The findings of the survey showed 87 per cent of the respondents in Srinagar want that “Kashmir should be an independent country”. Forty-seven per cent of the respondents in Pakistan and only 15 per cent in India had the same opinion.

Interestingly, 95 per cent of the respondents living in

Hindu-dominated Jammu favoured the accession of entire Kashmir to India. Similarly, 67 per cent of urban Indians want that Kashmir should be a part of India.

The survey showed a majority of urban Pakistanis do not want to see Kashmir’s accession to India. Forty-eight per cent of the respondents favoured the merger of the disputed territory with their country while 47 per cent want to see Kashmir as an independent state.

Only three per cent Pakistanis would like the present status of Kashmir to continue, compared with 16 per cent in India.

PAKISTAN-INDIA RELATIONS: The respondents were also put several questions relating to the ongoing confidence-building measures (CBMs) and future relationship between Pakistan and India.

The response showed that 57 per cent people in India wanted continuation of the CBMs without resolution of the Kashmir dispute. On the other hand, 55 per cent of Pakistanis believe that Pakistan-India friendship is not possible without the resolution of the issue.

While more people in Pakistan (80.7pc) than in India (78.4pc) said that the two countries should resolve their issues through negotiations, almost twice the number of people in India (16pc) than in Pakistan (9pc) felt that war was the only solution to the problems between the two states.

According to the poll, Indians are more optimistic than Pakistanis regarding the relationship between the two countries in the coming years. As many as 46.4 per cent Indians are hopeful of an improvement while the figure for Pakistan is 28.3.

A whopping 67 per cent of Indian respondents said the two countries should forget their past and work towards a friendly future. The view was shared by only 44.2 per cent in Pakistan.

On the issue of trade, almost half of Pakistanis and 64 per cent of Indians feel that the two countries should promote greater bilateral trade.

Surprisingly, despite having a yearning for good relations, a majority of Indians and Pakistanis do not want to visit the other country. As many as 60 per cent of the Indians do not want to visit Pakistan and 61 per cent Pakistanis say that they do not have a desire to go to India.

US ROLE: Fifty per cent Indians and 35 per cent Pakistanis are of the opinion that the US is not a real friend of either country. Less than 10 per cent people in both countries feel the US is more friendly to Pakistan, whereas almost one-third of Pakistanis feel the US is more friendly to India. Only eight per cent Pakistanis and 11.2 per cent Indians feel that the US is equally friendly to both countries.

In Pakistan, 35 per cent of the respondents “fully agree”, and 33.3 per cent “somewhat agree”, that the government acts on the instructions of the US, whereas in India only 15.4 per cent “fully agree” and 24.9 per cent “somewhat agree” that their government works under Washington’s influence.

In response to a question regarding future relationship with the US, 11.5 per cent Pakistanis “fully agree”, and 22 per cent “somewhat agree” that it is in the interest of the country to have friendship with the US.

India seems to be equally divided between those who take a positive view of their government’s efforts to forge a strategic partnership with the United States. Twenty-three per cent of the respondents supported while 25 per cent opposed the relationship.

Over half of the Indians and 41 per cent Pakistanis are of the opinion that the `war against terrorism’ is nothing but an excuse to exercise power over other countries.

TRUST IN INSTITUTIONS: The survey revealed that Indians had more faith in their government than Pakistanis. The majority of Indians and Pakistanis have no faith at all in their police service, but there is a big disparity between Indians’ and Pakistanis’ trust in the army.

A staggering 64.6 per cent Indians said they had trust in the army, compared with just 38.6 per cent in Pakistan. The number of people in Pakistan who do not trust the army at all is twice that in India.

Almost 50 per cent of Pakistanis said they did not have `very much’ or `no trust’ at all in their parliament, whereas in India, 20 per cent more people than in Pakistan trust their parliament.

Neither Pakistanis nor Indians appear to trust the political parties, with 33 per cent in India and 36 per cent in Pakistan having no faith at all in the parties. A most marked mismatch and, crucially for Pakistan with elections looming, a mere six per cent said they had faith in the election commission while the figure for India was 34.3.

CRICKET: Pakistani all-rounder Shahid Afridi and Indian batsman Sachin Tendulkar are the most popular cricketers in the two countries.

Pakistanis’ favourite cricketer is Shahid Afridi, followed by Imran Khan and Shoaib Akhtar while Sachin Tendulkar, Sourav Ganguly and Rahul Dravid are their favourite Indian cricketers.

Shahid Afridi, Wasim Akram and Shoaib Akhtar are the three most popular Pakistani players in India.

SHOW BUSINESS: The response was pretty evenly split, with 52.6 per cent Pakistanis saying they do not, and 47 per cent saying they do, watch Bollywood movies.

The most popular Indian actor in Pakistan is Shah Rukh Khan, followed by Salman Khan. Amazingly enough, Amitabh Bachchan comes third. Pakistanis consider Aishwariya Rai, Rani Mukharjee and Kajol as the best Indian actresses, in that order.

Twenty-two per cent Indians watch Pakistani television channels while 30 per cent listen to Pakistani music.

http://www.dawn.com/2007/08/14/top1.htm

 

[Contrarian]

Very interesting results!

 

[Awesome]

Results show Pakistanis are increasingly ok with either Pakistan or Independence but Indians want a totalitarian result.

 

[Contrarian]

Um, Asim, i would appreciate if you did not change the title of the thread.

This is blatant manipulation of the words and the thread. Please restore it, people can make their own conclusions after reading the thread.

This thread is also not exclusive to Kashmir, but about the general feelings on both side of the border. It should neither be exclusively in the Kashmir section, but rather in the Indian streategic section or Pakistani.

 

[Bull]

Um, Asim, i would appreciate if you did not change the title of the thread.

This is blatant manipulation of the words and the thread. Please restore it, people can make their own conclusions after reading the thread.

This thread is also not exclusive to Kashmir, but about the general feelings on both side of the border. It should neither be exclusively in the Kashmir section, but rather in the Indian streategic section or Pakistani.

This might have been your title...'60 years on, Kashmir core issue Srinagar, Jammu poles apart"..lol u didnt realise that doesnt match with Asim's ideologies and needed to be modified.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Similarly, 67 per cent of urban Indians want that Kashmir should be a part of India.

The survey showed a majority of urban Pakistanis do not want to see Kashmir’s accession to India. Forty-eight per cent of the respondents favoured the merger of the disputed territory with their country while 47 per cent want to see Kashmir as an independent state.

So can we dispense with the "Pakistanis are obsessed with capturing Kashmir while Indians meditate on Himalayan mountaintops" myth now?

 

[Bull]

A staggering 64.6 per cent Indians said they had trust in the army, compared with just 38.6 per cent in Pakistan. The number of people in Pakistan who do not trust the army at all is twice that in India.

Almost 50 per cent of Pakistanis said they did not have `very much’ or `no trust’ at all in their parliament, whereas in India, 20 per cent more people than in Pakistan trust their parliament.

Oh so you dont trust PA? Why so?Well it looks like Pakistani public is highly suspicous about anything, they dont trust the PA, the parliament. How can anybody trust them when tehy dont trust anybody?

 

[waz]

87% Kashmiris want independence

 

[joey]

umm this is the email I send agnostic, get real boys the dawn report overall is nice one. but I'll comment specifically on the poll where the demands of independent state was porclaimed.

It has been conducted by DCSDS which is a cartel of leftist and commie professors and sociologists which runs on "grants." Its website obviously does not mention who provides those grants.

A sample size of 226 in Srinagar and 255 in Jammu! My, my, that is a mammoth effort by these professors. It is almost like carrying out a surve on the state of US democracy by surveying 200 people in New York and 200 people in California supoprting independence movement for the seperate californian state namedazhkaban.

I can go on proving much regarding that simple poll more but hey leave it there, it proves nothing. nada zip zlich, I will probably get more than that numbers of peoples in slums of Pakistan supporting the balochistan freedom movement or in the slums of tamil nadu supporting the idea of seperate telengana state.

 

[waz]

It has been conducted by DCSDS which is a cartel of leftist and commie professors and sociologists which runs on "grants." Its website obviously does not mention who provides those grants.

Don't blame it on sunshine
Don't blame it on moonlight
Don't blame it on good times
Blame it on the COMMIE boggy men.....

 

[joey]

So can we dispense with the "Pakistanis are obsessed with capturing Kashmir while Indians meditate on Himalayan mountaintops" myth now?

Yes good indeed, surely you can dispense the idea a study based on 250 persons, what a joke!

Let me be clear the independence of Kashmir is not what Pakistan wants (lets take the show business and PR job aside please) and not what India wants as well for both their strategic interests in the region which are important for both the countries, plus on legal base it has no substantiation since again the issue with huge demographic question comes and it calls for plebicite which again calls for the unchange of demographics as it was before 47.

The very word Azad Kashmir is far from being azad, you can be a public seperatist sympathizer and live in India and display the black flag during hurriyet conference, while you cannot be a India seperatist sympathizer and live in Pakistan Kashmir under the banner of living in Azad KAshmir and display a safrron flag.

I bet musharaff should challenge Indian claim in Kashmir based on this report in internatiinal court, It would be a spectacle to watch what the Indian lawmakers do.

 

[joey]

Don't blame it on sunshine
Don't blame it on moonlight
Don't blame it on good times
Blame it on the COMMIE boggy men.....

I think I am clear what I said, If you dont know about DCDS fine I can put up its history, simply 250 peoples for a survey is nothing its zlich. Furthermore this freedom of Kashmir is NOT what is in Pakistans interest NOR Pakistans action for over 60 years proves the policymakers are doing the thing that needs to do so.

You can never substantiate your claim on legal basis, philological proof does not qualifies for anything as I said I'll probably get more sympathisers in both India and Pakistan on different ethnicities claiming for their own land.

Infusion of millitant activities and demographic invasion is NOT a legal basis on the claims of Plebicite NOR is a legal basis on the the stance of Pakistan supoprting Kashmirs independence, because indirectly it is well documented fact that they have infused their men in Kashmir, the way we simply can deport 40 million peoples in Kashmir and ask for its independence by conducting polls.

But the fact remains 250 peoples for a poll? heck Dawn themselves conducted poll by takingover 2000 peoples just to see which film is popular et al.

 

[waz]

I think I am clear what I said, If you dont know about DCDS fine I can put up its history, simply 250 peoples for a survey is nothing its zlich. Furthermore this freedom of Kashmir is NOT what is in Pakistans interest NOR Pakistans action for over 60 years proves the policymakers are doing the thing that needs to do so.

You can never substantiate your claim on legal basis, philological proof does not qualifies for anything as I said I'll probably get more sympathisers in both India and Pakistan on different ethnicities claiming for their own land.

Infusion of millitant activities and demographic invasion is NOT a legal basis on the claims of Plebicite NOR is a legal basis on the the stance of Pakistan supoprting Kashmirs independence, because indirectly it is well documented fact that they have infused their men in Kashmir, the way we simply can deport 40 million peoples in Kashmir and ask for its independence by conducting polls.

But the fact remains 250 peoples for a poll? heck Dawn themselves conducted poll by takingover 2000 peoples just to see which film is popular et al.

Oh my god…250 people are sample of the populace which is deemed to reflect the views of the populace. Since when were surveys a numbers game? Ok granted it could have been bigger but the result would be the same. Would it have been more palatable for you to see 2000 giving their opinions and the majority still wanting to break free? As for being in Pakistan’s interest of course an independent state will be in our interest as it will far more closely aligned with us and the people in Azad Kahmir overwhelming consider themselves Pakistani who also happen to be the nearest kin to the people in the valley.

Legal basis for what, our claim on Kashmir? Dude your nation is in violation of the UN resolutions and it was your founding father’s who promised a free vote that we still wait for .Militant activities were sparked by your brutal occupation, its called there is no fire without smoke. As for demographic invasion please spare me your bull AC/DC or Joey now, I am from the Azad Kashmir region and a great deal of the people there are from Kashmiri roots but we do have sizable numbers of Jatts etc who have settled in the region hundreds of years back. No one has been “infused” in Azad Kashmir as Pakistani settlers cannot reside in the region. Anyhow if you want to play ball like that then you haven’t got a leg to stand on as any support for India in the “Jammu and Kashmir” region comes from non ethnic Kashmiri folk such as the dogra’s people.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Yes good indeed, surely you can dispense the idea a study based on 250 persons, what a joke!

The Indian and pakistani viewpoints were taken from approximately 2000 and 1000 respondents respectively.
The whole idea behind polls is to gage opinion of a larger group through a smaller sampling is it not? Larger samples would obviously be more accurate, but you could argue against the poll by pointing out flaws such as poorly worded questions, sampling taken from only specific locations etc. Simply pointing out the number of respondents in the poll is not a comprehensive argument against it. At the same time I am not suggesting that the results of this poll settle the issue completely, just that the claims regarding Pakistanis being infatuated with retaining Kashmir, while Indians are not, don't hold much water.

Let me be clear the independence of Kashmir is not what Pakistan wants (lets take the show business and PR job aside please) and not what India wants as well for both their strategic interests in the region which are important for both the countries, plus on legal base it has no substantiation since again the issue with huge demographic question comes and it calls for plebicite which again calls for the unchange of demographics as it was before 47.

Its a valid point. I don't think either side will accept the U.N conditions on the plebiscite anymore. When you take into account the proposals presented by Musharraf, I don't think that a plebiscite, if it is ever held, would take place in Jammu, Laddakh or the Northern Areas; only in AK and IK.

The very word Azad Kashmir is far from being azad, you can be a public seperatist sympathizer and live in India and display the black flag during hurriyet conference, while you cannot be a India seperatist sympathizer and live in Pakistan Kashmir under the banner of living in Azad KAshmir and display a safrron flag.

Now thats just opinion isn't it. If that were the case, Indian separatists not allowed to live in AK, how can you discount the societal effect on such people being unwelcome? If the population is overwhelmingly pro-Pakistani, perhaps they themselves made the pro-Indians unwelcome. You cannot state with finality that the lack of pro-indians in AK is because the "State" does not tolerate them. It could be a societal issue.

 

[joey]

waz good points indeed I totally agree with you.

Its a valid point. I don't think either side will accept the U.N conditions on the plebiscite anymore. When you take into account the proposals presented by Musharraf, I don't think that a plebiscite, if it is ever held, would take place in Jammu, Laddakh or the Northern Areas; only in AK and IK.

Musharaff-Vajpayee Peace process was a good one but the fact is simple Nothing other than LOC being IB can be accepted, falicitation of peoples on the basis of a law is different matter altogather. Change of map can-not be achieved by peaceful means. and btw the sampling was not taken off 2000 peoples but exactly 255 peoples. Read the whole report, it mixes many surveys conducted, read the other news on the same report.