If and if and if.
The Roman empire was in far more dire straits before and the battle of Alesia is just one battle.
If Hannibal marched on Rome or won at Zama Rome would be seriously fcuked and that happened like one and a half centuries earlier than Alesia.
A single T rex killing a tricerotops would have altered the world as we know it today. That battle changed history.
You don't get the degree of this battle.
You cannot compare this to the whole Ancient Carthage empire and how if Hannibal rake the shit out of Roman land and what will happen then,Carthaginian never actually have a chance to begin with. They were allied with the Roman in Greek Carthage campaign and Pyrrhic war and Hannibal think he can beat the roman in Punic war but what he knows about the Roman, the Roman knew about him too. And the fight, although it seems that Roman were losing in most of the campaign, was actually quite even.
Battle of Alesia, however, is heavily stacked against Caesar, again, as I have not illustrate it enough, Pompey actually did hang Caesar to dry and Caesar were either have to fight and die there in Gaul outnumbered 3 to 1 or Go back to Rome in shame.
It is at this point, Caesar pull this win out of the bag, change the course of history. Plus, his legacy on this battle have been repeated all over the world, William Tecumesh Sherman uses the same tactics Caesar use during the battle to put down the Indian rebellion after American Civil War.
William Tecumseh Sherman - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Then Japan uses the same thing Caesar use and modified it a bit to capture Singapore during WW2.
The legacy of this battle is more than Caesar alone, I don't know if you see that.
@AUSTERLITZ
I think Romans had not brought to Asia anything that Asians do not know, even democracy and Human rights are there in India and Persia respectively.
Ashoka and Darius are great and just rulers and are comparable to Roman emperors in terms of administration, controlling vast empires, unifying people etc...etc... , .
Asia at that time is seeing the golden ages be it in China, Japan, India or ASEAN. Romans helped in spread of Christianity which acted as a unifying factor in western world, Asia's case is different.
It is the invention of Cannons and Muskets coupled with ambition to explore world that did the difference to the world.
One of the reason Asia and other continents are subjugated and colonized.
Again, it's more than that, discounting what the battle itself taught us replicate all over the world. Do remember the Christian missionary starts after Roman empire, and that being brought along in different continent and resulting a major Western Colonization in new world. Indirectly, you can say that the use of colonization is conferred by the Roman Catholic Church uses of Crusade (or Holy war) and subjugated the local population.
Now Imagine this, had Roman Empire did not exist, would Spain Colonize Philippine and export Catholicism to Philippine? Or had there be no Crusade, would Persian Islam spread across the West instead of Christianity?
But them I don't think we should discuss this here, maybe if you want, you can open a thread about how Roman empire affect Asia in some other thread
Regarding this battle, It was the construction engineers that won the battle for Caesar, may be some other conqueror might have laid seize for some time and stormed the city before the reserved forces arrived.
Caesar is extra cautious in this case. But if the incoming force which is coming to the aid of seized Gauls is more, then Caesar would have been sandwiched and faced great odds. In my view Caesar gambled by sandwiching himself between the gauls, But Gauls are barbarians have no discipline and seize technology reason why Caesar won.
Agree on the first part, but did not agree on the second.
Gaul are barbarian, but they are in no way have no discipline.
There are 2 things happens during this battle shows that Gaul did have indeed maybe better discipline than the Roman.
1.) Hit and Run tactics require high discipline
During the first 2 weeks of the siege, the Gaul uses cavalry to harass the Roman prep work and forging party. For that to happen, the Gaul need to be able to pull the troop back when they need to and when they have to. You can't do that if you are running a rag tag band of bandit
2.) When Commius arrive with the reinforcement, Vercingetorix launch his attack both time coincide with Commius attack, that show at least some communication between the 2, and that also show battle discipline
Had the Romans lost in Alesia, they could simply do what they always do and send 2 Consuls with an army each. And another 2 afterwards.
NO, this is quite wrong.
Pompey have falling out with Caesar in 54 after his wife (Caesar's daughter) dies and the Triumvirate had fallen with Crassus death. Pompey refused to form a pact with Caesar after Caesar offer him yet another daughter.
Pompey is more like the President of Roman republic, he was in Rome and Caesar is like a governor of Gaul for Roman Republic, Pompey are planning to consolidate his power in Rome and had Caesar failed his expedition, which is what Pompey intended, there would not be another Gaul invasion and the Gaul will stay united and that part of the history would change.
Had Caesar retreated from Gaul, he will be dishonoured and probably will be executed for the fail expedition. There are no plan for Roman Republic to conquer Gaul at that moment, and Gaul were indeed an tribute state to Rome at that time.
And that is why when Caesar eventually win in Gaul, Pompey did not reward Caesar as it used to and that is the very reason why Caesar bring his trusted legion across the Rubicon and start a Roman Civil War, resulting Pompey Defeat and Caesar crown undisputed king of Roman Empire.
The whole thing, is what Pompey did so Caesar would take the fall and by cutting off Caesar supplies, and reinforcement from Rome (Pompey could have send legion to aide Caesar in the Summer, but he did not) see that Pompey is simply hanging Caesar out to dry
Thanks for the tag.
A few things that stand out after reading this battle
1) This was one of the most remarkable of JuliusCaesar, he turned richer after this battle.l
2) The wall and trench ensured that Gallia's supply of food could be blocked.
3) Caesar was a true leader, he himself rushed to the trouble spots along the Roman line to join in the hand to hand fighting along side his exhausted troops.
4) Vercingetorix (Gallitic prince) managed to unite several sovereign Celtic tribes to do battle against the aggressive Romans
1.) This is the most famous battle Caesar known to, but not the most remarkable, the most remarkable battle Caesar fought in my opinion is Battle of Pharsalus when his exhausted legion being literally driven to a corner some how defeated Pompey larger Roman legion...I still don't know and not quite sure how Caesar can pull that one out of the bag today and I will cover it later as part of the series.
2.) Being a siege, the Wall and Trench or Drench are there to prevent people from coming in or out of Alesia
3.) You also need to admire Caesar ability to read the battlefield. Not only did he lead his own troop to fight alongside his exhausted troop and turn the tide, but he know exactly when and where to commit himself and last of his reserve is quite genius, don't forget Caesar have a back ground of a landlord and aristocrat background, he is not of a military background.
4.) Yes, especially Vercingetorix actually fought alongside with Caesar in earlier campaign to subjugated other Gaul to begin with heh
Asia was not inferior to rome that anything in rome would have affected asia. Well it's like anything happened in both Asia and europe would affect eachother
Dude, when did I say Asia is inferior to Rome??
If you don't know or have no contribution to the battle or history, please do not comment in here.
Nice thread. History is strange, remember in those science fiction movies about time machines they say killing even an insect can change the course of history. Alesia was an important battle why?
Because the Roman senate had no intention of conquering any further territory at that time and it was Ceaser's personal lust for glory and riches that led to this campaign.
Now let's say he would have lost that battle, he would have never become the emperor and there would have been no conquering of Gaul, western Germany and Britain. So these countries would have stayed as tribal confederations and without the roman civilization.
Dark ages after the fall of Rome would have been much longer and without the concept of a centralized state it is possible that western Europe consisted of tribal confederations when Arabs arrived in Iberia and there would've been no Frankish State to stop their advance into the western Europe. So yes Alesia was important.
You get why I said this battle change the world. AT LAST, Thank You
To all reply after this, I am in no mood nor interest to debate the title to you or how Roman affect Asia, if you don't like the title, you can F.Off or start your own thread, but please, unless you have anything in real matter to say with the Battle itself, do not ask me to change my post title.
This is not a place to debate the title, this is a place to debate the
BATTLE
