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I see your posts on here often, and I respect your views... but also disagree with them.
I too yearn for peace, but I think the blame of non-state actors is just about equal (and I'm being generous.) Indian support to Baloch terrorists is well-documented and well-known. Are they any less violent? Do they kill and maim any less number of innocent civilians (mostly poor labourers --- soft targets.) Was Kulbashan in Pakistan on a picnic?
NATO needs you in the region as a buffer against growing Chinese influence so it turns a blind eye to your state sponsorship of terrorism, just as it does with your genocidal PM who was earlier on a visa blacklist for his role in the Gujrat massacre. Unfortunately, this has resulted in most of your population actually believing what is, in fact, untrue: that only Pakistan engages violent non-state actors and that only the ISI indulges in state sponsorship of terrorism (while Indian intel sits pretty and plants flowers for little kids.)
The R&AW has just an illustrious and colorful a relationship with state sponsored terror outside of India's borders. Ask us --- we know. Ask the Sri Lankans --- they know.
So, with this issue aside, let us talk about Kashmir. By the accounts of various sane Indian analysts and journalists, the situation in Indian-Occupied Kashmir is increasingly homegrown and its draconian nature is there for everyone to see. How can you expect an occupied people to live under oppressive laws and paramilitary rule without some kind of violent reactions from time to time? Does Pakistan support these reactions? I think so, but that doesn't change the realities of the occupation.
Many sane voices in India called for introspection after Pulwama. I hope you can do some too.
The threads are all combined now so that video must have gotten in between some page but when i tagged you it was on that particular thread.
Calm down uncle. I know these events are shocking, I mean yesterday you were chest pumping and ejaculated prematurely, and today we put the IAF in its place, so please take care of your health.
What do you expect? 3 people died in that village from Indian shelling. The soldiers protected him otherwise he would of become a chappal kebab. It must be tough, jumping up and down and now reality has set in.
Doesn't suits you
I wish that man is returned and flies as soon as possible.
Yes, it was but not it's usage at that level.
Locals just kicked your squadron leader's butt.
Thank you for opening as you did, but in view of the obnoxious manners of some of your compatriots, and the sheer vulgarity of their posts, it feels necessary to remind decent members like you of what I stand for, and to inform the others of what is and is not permissible in their remarks directed to me.
I have, like many millions of Indians, not thousands, stood for peace with Pakistan, and for normal relations. We had no compulsion to do so; for us, it is not tied to our justification for our existence, or to a constructed reason for our specific existence. It is inherent; our culture is peaceful, and has been for thousands of years. After the carnage of partition, we had excellent relations, or at least, relations that were not hostile and toxic, for 18 years. I leave it to those of you who are educated and who know how to sift myth from reality to decide what ensued, and who originated it.
Kashmir is a special matter; discussing its rights and wrongs is not appropriate here. You will understand if I leave it on one side.
During my own efforts at doing what one individual can do to build better relations, I have encountered the reasonable, decent people who might oppose some views proposed to them, who might agree with others, but who, above all, could put things together in a rational manner. I have also encountered religious fanatics, in whom their religiosity mingled with their nationalism in a toxic cocktail that is difficult to separate into its components. Finally, there is that curse of the internet, the kiddy-crowd, that has nothing better to do but to vent its frustration and social restrictions by striking grossly vulgar postures on online fora.
It is impossible to conduct any conversation with the second and third varieties; over time, I have come to realise that they are incorrigible, although age might temper the third group.
I say this as a prelude to answering your observations below.
First, non-state actors in Indian usage refers to literally thousands of young people from Punjab and Pakhtunistan who have been brought up with certain very negative impressions about their neighbouring country, its citizens, and its cultural attributes, including the religion that the majority follow in that country. In contrast, if we examine, without prejudice, the usage by our neighbours in Pakistan, it is Pakistanis who are seen to be acting against the interests of Pakistan, NOT, by any stretch, Indians indoctrinated into believing that Pakistan was an existential threat and recruited, trained, motivated, paid and armed before being introduced into Pakistan. The equivalent to those that Pakistan calls non-state actors are those militants within India who want a wider degree of independence from state control than the state deems admissible: the tribals, the north-eastern factions, the Naxals, and so on. Not a single one of these has been placed at the doorstep of Pakistan and its agencies, in spite of the written testimony of your own army officers, not to mention the research and findings of foreign academic investigators.
Second, it is unfair to take the doings of the last five years and put it in the balance of the doings of the other side for the last seventy years. There were restrictions and outright bans on any kind of monitoring, forget about intervention, on the part of our intelligence agencies. These are well-recorded; you do not have to take my word for it, although on this, I am peculiarly well-informed.
I found this the most painful part of your note.
From the time that the two nations were formed, Pakistan flung itself into the arms of the western bloc, while India tried its own quixotic brand of foreign policy of equi-distance from the two blocs. Pakistan joined the Baghdad Pact, that later became CENTO, a parallel of NATO, Pakistan joined the south-east Asian bloc known as SEATO; do look up the dates and also do look up the policies of these two defence unions. And do refresh your memory about Pakistan's former role as a vital ally for NATO, and so declared, at the precise times that we were under interdict due to our policies and principles.
You might remember, or if you look up the annals, you may read for yourself that the hostility of the period of American attitudes to India, that plummeted to its lowest point under Nixon and his ubiquitous aide Kissinger, recovered only very, very slowly under Clinton, Bush and Obama. Again, it is not reasonable to equate the favour that India (and India's buying power) suddenly started to find with the west for the last twenty years with the unbroken support that Pakistan has enjoyed, in spite of the most egregious behaviour, over seventy years.
During this period, Pakistan was stuffed full of aid and cash. The economic miracle that Pakistan went through, all the while that its generals twitted Indians with the observation that they would travel in Mercedes cars while India's option was Maruti 800s. If you give him half a chance, my compatriot @Nilgiri will flood you with graphics explaining how injected aid led to economic improvement for Pakistan.
This happened not once but several times.
I put it to you that NATO being on the side of India is a pitifully recent phenomenon, and we should remember what little has flowed from that relationship. As a contrast to what military and developmental aid that Pakistan got.
Again, as I might point out, this was recently restored. Even earlier, it was started very, very recently, in contrast to the
Very reasonably put, and to be fair, the only thing wanted from Pakistan is to stop active promotion of the faction there that is committed financially to the overthrow of Indian administration. Don't support the reactions; do support the reactions. But don't send in armed men with missions to kill.
At the cost of sounding guilty of 'whataboutery', a reasoning trope that I abhor, there has to be considerable introspection.
But not only in India.
Yes, I was shoved into the combined thread willy-nilly. I will try to look it up, but, as you might have noticed, there is a queue of Pakistani posters who have decided that the entire matter is to be resolved by interactions with me. A rich and mighty honour that is not of my choosing, and one that I wish I could step aside and allow to pass to Chhappanincheswar.
New Recruit
I am not a muslim scholar. Our Prophet even forgave his worst enemy who ate his uncles liver. Read the instructions of Prophet Muhammad when he gave the sermon to his forces while entering Makkah. When someone gives up, you respect them kindly.holier than thou as always!
I don't think any of them were "muslamic scholars" like you, they just saw him as one of them rapists and child blinders from across the line who had come over to bomb them, and for all they knew he was one them who bombed and killed 4 women and a child yesterday in the nearby area
Damn right.
By the way the Pakistani jet shot down was indeed F-16. Confirmed.
Flt Lt Nachiketa who was PoW during Kargil is still serving. But ejection is a hard thing, if he is medically fit, he will serve India once again..He is POW,,,,,, In the end, He will go back home (India) and most probably IAF will retire him...….. So this is end of his service...