25% of Japanese firms relocate to Vietnam after China exit: JETRO

[Aepsilons]

 

[Martian2]

Armchair general vs. PDF Think Tank Analyst

Nihonjin is a PDF Think Tank Analyst. He claims Japan is China's largest foreign investor.

I'm an armchair general. I say he's wrong. I have a citation from the government of China to prove my point. At best, Japan is China's fourth largest investor. By the way, that is a distant fourth place. Japan's slice of China's FDI investment pie is pretty small (see 2007 chart below).

Who are you going to believe? My citation or his false claim?

Foreign Direct Investment & China (slide 5)

 

[Aepsilons]

Armchair general vs. PDF Think Tank Analyst

Nihonjin is a PDF Think Tank Analyst. He claims Japan is China's largest foreign investor.

I'm an armchair general. I say he's wrong. I have a citation from the government of China to prove my point. At best, Japan is China's fourth largest investor. By the way, that is a distant fourth place. Japan's slice of China's FDI investment pie is pretty small (see 2007 chart below).

Who are you going to believe? My citation or his false claim?

Foreign Direct Investment & China (slide 5)

You post a source from 2007? 8 years old? Be as kind as to post something more recent, dear arm chair general-in-reserve.

lol.

 

[Martian2]

You post a source from 2007? 8 years old? Be as kind as to post something more recent, dear arm chair general-in-reserve.

lol.

None exist. If I could find more current data, I would post it.

However, I have posted data from 2005 and 2007. Every time, Hong Kong is the leading investor. Your claim is not true.

 

[Aepsilons]

----------------------------

Something more of authoritative and recent. As in this past week-recent. :



"As the world’s second and third largest economies, China and Japan together account for more than a fifth of global output. Moreover, the bilateral trade relationship between China and Japan is the third largest in the world, with over US$340 billion of trade in 2014. In fact, Japan is the largest investor in China, with direct investment of more than US$100 billion in 2014.



These trade and investment figures provide only a glimpse into how important and intertwined the relationship is between these two Asian powerhouses. A closer look into the two countries reveals how complementary their respective economies are—with different levels of industrial and technological capabilities that can generate unmatched economic growth."



Retrieved from: 6th Annual CKGSB China-Japan CEO Roundtable | CKGSB

None exist. If I could find more current data, I would post it.

However, I have posted data from 2001 and 2007. Every time, Hong Kong is the leading investor. Your claim is no true.

Then you cannot counter my academic-based , authoritative, input. Stay down, in your chair.

 

[Martian2]

----------------------------

Something more of authoritative and recent. As in this past week-recent. :



"As the world’s second and third largest economies, China and Japan together account for more than a fifth of global output. Moreover, the bilateral trade relationship between China and Japan is the third largest in the world, with over US$340 billion of trade in 2014. In fact, Japan is the largest investor in China, with direct investment of more than US$100 billion in 2014.



These trade and investment figures provide only a glimpse into how important and intertwined the relationship is between these two Asian powerhouses. A closer look into the two countries reveals how complementary their respective economies are—with different levels of industrial and technological capabilities that can generate unmatched economic growth."



Retrieved from: 6th Annual CKGSB China-Japan CEO Roundtable | CKGSB



Then you cannot counter my academic-based , authoritative, input. Stay down, in your chair.

The $100 billion figure is cumulative.

I have already provided two sources (including from Taiwan's Taipei Times) that show Taiwan's cumulative investment in mainland China is $300 to $400 billion.

I've already proven you wrong. You should stop misleading PDF readers.

 

[Aepsilons]

"As the world’s second and third largest economies, China and Japan together account for more than a fifth of global output. Moreover, the bilateral trade relationship between China and Japan is the third largest in the world, with over US$340 billion of trade in 2014. In fact, Japan is the largest investor in China, with direct investment of more than US$100 billion in 2014.



These trade and investment figures provide only a glimpse into how important and intertwined the relationship is between these two Asian powerhouses. A closer look into the two countries reveals how complementary their respective economies are—with different levels of industrial and technological capabilities that can generate unmatched economic growth."



Retrieved from: 6th Annual CKGSB China-Japan CEO Roundtable | CKGSB

 

[Martian2]

In 2012, Japan contributed a mere 6.45% to Chinese Foreign Direct Investment (FDI)

In the 2014 citation below, the largest foreign direct investors in China are as follows:

Hong Kong: 43.78%
British Virgin Islands: 9.56%
Japan: 6.45%
US: 5.19%

Contrary to Nihonjin's absurd claim, Japan is NOT China's largest foreign investor. Japan accounts for a mere 6.45% of China's FDI.

2014 FDI Report: China | IFLR.com

 

[Aepsilons]

The Hong Kong-Japan Business Co-operation Committee (HK-JBCC) and its counterpart, the Japan-Hong Kong Business Co-operation Committee (J-HKBCC), were established in 1979. The Committees organise high level business-to-business dialogue to foster understanding between the business communities of Hong Kong and Japan, and promote trade, investment and other economic co-operation between the two territories.

The Hong Kong Trade Development Council (HKTDC) acts as the Secretariat for the Hong Kong Committee and the Japan Business Federation (formerly known as the Keidanren) serves as the Secretariat for the Japan Committee. The two Committees are represented by leaders from a broad spectrum of trade and industry. Their members meet once a year to enhance mutual understanding and explore new dimensions that can broaden and deepen business partnership between Hong Kong and Japan.

It is the priority of HK-JBCC to explore new dimensions in Hong Kong’s econo mic relations with Japan and to act as a catalyst for a broader and deeper business partnership. The Committee has also undertaken to explore ways of promoting Hong Kong as a trade and service platform for Japanese companies to expand business in the Chinese market.

Hong Kong - Japan Business Co-operation Committee

 

[Martian2]

The data shows that Japan can only claim 6.45% of China's FDI.

The truth is that Hong Kong is responsible for 44% of China's FDI.

Whether you want to argue the source of the Hong Kong money, that is a different issue.

The bottom line is that Japanese FDI into China is pretty insignificant at 6.45%.

 

[Aepsilons]

It is the priority of HK-JBCC to explore new dimensions in Hong Kong’s econo mic relations with Japan and to act as a catalyst for a broader and deeper business partnership. The Committee has also undertaken to explore ways of promoting Hong Kong as a trade and service platform for Japanese companies to expand business in the Chinese market.

Hong Kong - Japan Business Co-operation Committee

 

[Martian2]

In 2014, Taiwan overtook Japan as a foreign investor in China

Contrary to Nihonjin's claim, Japan is not China's largest foreign investor. The latest data from 2014 shows that Japan is only in fourth place with a meager 3.6% of China's inbound FDI. Taiwan was responsible for 4.3% of Chinese inbound FDI (see blue box below).

Foreign investment in China - Santandertrade.com

 

[TaiShang]

The data shows that Japan can only claim 6.45% of China's FDI.

The truth is that Hong Kong is responsible for 44% of China's FDI.

Whether you want to argue the source of the Hong Kong money, that is a different issue.

The bottom line is that Japanese FDI into China is pretty insignificant at 6.45%.

Exactly.

It seems like, first, our friend Nihonjin mistook cumulative investment for recent data, which clearly shows Japan is a distant fourth.

When it was proven that HK & TW are among the largest sources of investment, then our friend began to argue the source of the money directed from HK into the Mainland.

Nonetheless, even Japan being the largest investor would not be surprising given the geographical proximity and historical ties. That would not be a bad thing, either.

We recognize that, Japan is on a very different level in terms of development. China is still a developing nation with its nearest goal is to achieve a moderately prosperous society by 2020 and pass 20trillion USD threshold, becoming the largest economy in the world.

Taiwan's contribution and importance is not to be denied. As Martian says, this is only natural given that Taiwan is just an extension of the Mainland and a member in the Greater China. In the end, the center is the Mainland and the politics is decided there.

 

[Martian2]

Taiwan is responsible for the huge investment inflow through Hong Kong

Hong Kong is responsible for 71.7% of the investment in China. However, in reality, the money and technology are coming from Taiwan.

I'll go through the reasons one by one.

Firstly, The Wall Street Journal (a highly reputable business publication) states that unofficial Taiwanese investment in mainland China is in the range of $200 billion to $400 billion.

Investing in Cross-Strait Relations - WSJ

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Secondly, one to two million Taiwanese live and work on mainland China. The Taiwanese are there to look after their investments. In contrast, the number of Japanese in China is negligible.

Cross-Strait Relations and International Organizations: Taiwan’s ... - Björn Alexander Lindemann - Google Books

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Thirdly, every industry that Taiwan is strong in, China is also very strong. This implies a technological transfer over time from Taiwanese mainland investment businesses to Chinese employees.

http://www.solarbusinessfocus.com/assets/images/editorial/figure-2.jpg

Taiwan is economically strong in photovoltaics, LED, LCD, semiconductors (foundry and SoC design), electronics, machine tools, petrochemicals, yacht building, personal computers (both desktop and notebook computers), computer servers for enterprises, etc.

China is economically strong in the exact same Taiwan strengths. This means the decades of Taiwanese investments on mainland China have transferred technology to the Chinese employees that now own a competing business.
----------

Fourthly, Taiwan industrialized a decade before South Korea. Taiwan's cumulative USPTO patents are 150,000. South Korea lags behind. Why does South Korea have a higher standard of living than Taiwan?

There was a massive outflow of investment money from Taiwan into mainland China. Instead of spending the money at home to upgrade Taiwanese manufacturing plants, Taiwan spent the money in China. This meant mainland Chinese were being paid nice wages and the mainland Chinese cities benefited from real estate taxes. A good example is the transfer of all notebook computer production from Taiwan to China.

Patent Counts By Country, State, and Year - All Patent Types (December 2014)

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Taiwan's last notebook factory closes - Taipei Times

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The final argument is that Taiwan is responsible for 60% of Chinese high-tech exports. Using induction, all of those Taiwanese manufacturing plants on mainland China must have been built with a massive inflow of FDI (ie. foreign direct investment) from Taiwan.

In conclusion, Taiwan is responsible for the vast majority of the investments through Hong Kong and into China.

Why Taiwan Is Asia’s Hidden Tech Mecca - Uncommon Wisdom Daily

 

[AndrewJin]

Exactly.

It seems like, first, our friend Nihonjin mistook cumulative investment for recent data, which clearly shows Japan is a distant fourth.

When it was proven that HK & TW are among the largest sources of investment, then our friend began to argue the source of the money directed from HK into the Mainland.

Nonetheless, even Japan being the largest investor would not be surprising given the geographical proximity and historical ties. That would not be a bad thing, either.

We recognize that, Japan is on a very different level in terms of development. China is still a developing nation with its nearest goal is to achieve a moderately prosperous society by 2020 and pass 20trillion USD threshold, becoming the largest economy in the world.

Taiwan's contribution and importance is not to be denied. As Martian says, this is only natural given that Taiwan is just an extension of the Mainland and a member in the Greater China. In the end, the center is the Mainland and the politics is decided there.

Into the chest of the sunsetting Japanese land!
lol