22 killed in blast near mosque in northwest Pakistan

[EyelessInGaza]

The introduction and entry of Real Islam in Pakistan was not just Zia, but the facilitation of hundreds and thousands of workers who were subsequently exposed to Real Islam in the Arabian Peninsula -- where a good number of Indian Muslims are exposed to the same malignancy

Cheers. That makes sense.

From what I read and hear, North Kerala (always a flashpoint) in India may be beginning to go that way. Compared to other Indian states, Kerala, IIRC, historically has had a very high, if not the highest, number of people working in the Gulf region.

 

[notsuperstitious]

You want me to qoute my figures from the Indian Muslim Congress report or the Sachar report them? This is very immature of you. You can't take a single debate about India while your purpose is to bash Pakistan on Pakistani ones. My identity crisis as people call it or my views on ethnicity are none of your business. Your business is to debate.

I have never said I represent Muslims of India. I tried to in the past but who can when they don't want to themselves? That was part of the reason I was forced to look within at how relatives who moved behaved. I now speak on behalf of Ansaris and my fathers side rather than other Indian muslims. That is my link and 3/5 or 1/2 of my family/relatives are in what is now India.

99% of my relatives are in India.

And Sachar is indeed a report that has been debated on the site a lot. Its a report prepared by the government of India, not to hide but to bring out the issues. Its a welcome report that should be an eye opener to Indian Muslims too.

But the sachar report has also been misused by some idiots to draw unsubstantiated conclusions. Its a bit like the rape threads about india, just because indians are outraged and discussing something openly and making our govt take some steps, does not mean india supports rape or that rape happens only in india. The same has been done by posters with sachar too.

Correlation does not mean causation. I do not think you have either the knowledge or the maturity to discuss any of these issues, just because you have relatives in India.

Were you not claiming lucknow as a part of pakistan? your credibility is ZERO. No offense.

 

[muse]

Fateh

We have said on this forum, how many years has it been, this and other forum, maybe 12 - 13 years, that Real Islam is enemy seeking and enemy making - that it lives off any sense of grievance - just be mindful -- and finish them off before they ever gel, don't let what's happened to Pakistan to happen to you and yours

 

[Guest01]

You want me to qoute my figures from the Indian Muslim Congress report or the Sachar report them? This is very immature of you. You can't take a single debate about India while your purpose is to bash Pakistan on Pakistani ones. My identity crisis as people call it or my views on ethnicity are none of your business. Your business is to debate.

I have never said I represent Muslims of India. I tried to in the past but who can when they don't want to themselves? That was part of the reason I was forced to look within at how relatives who moved behaved. I now speak on behalf of Ansaris and my fathers side rather than other Indian muslims. That is my link and 3/5 or 1/2 of my family/relatives are in what is now India.

Why are you not more interested in trying to speak for the other 2/5 or 1/2 of your family which you say is in Pakistan? Or have they migrated somewhere else from there? Looking at the way things are, your efforts / eating in plates with drivers / trying to convince that ethnicity does not matter, may earn better ROI on them. I mean when you get time from not wishing to be a pakhtun avatar. Talk about them. Try talking about the terror factories that operate in Pakistan under various madrasa franchises. How about forming a focus group to bring about the plight of the shias dying in Khyber or the case of the disappearing balochis? I mean, surely in a Global situation where Pakistan is being touted as most in need of aid, most in need of security, most in need of good governance, you could share you love with the family that is still there with you. At least for the time being maybe?

 

[EyelessInGaza]

Fateh

We have said on this forum, how many years has it been, this and other forum, maybe 12 - 13 years, that Real Islam is enemy seeking and enemy making - that it lives off any sense of grievance - just be mindful -- and finish them off before they ever gel, don't let what's happened to Pakistan to happen to you and yours

This is just a theory. The 'problem' as I see it - and for those who would want to know my antecedents, yes I am a human being, Indian and Hindu(in that order) - is that the hardline versions of Islam seem to thrive on what I see as 'violently rejecting the other'.

To me that means that adherents to this rigid version need to reject other Islamic interpretations; where others would be happy to go their own way, these people are not content with leaving well alone. In other words, I can only be a good Muslim only if I follow my religion and attack Ahmadiyas, a good Sunni Muslim only if I both follow the tenets of my faith and attack Shias, I can only be a good Deobandi only if I follow my school and attack other Sunnis/ Shias. And so on and on.

I think that is the fundamental change; some hardline proponents of the Islamic schools and sub-schools of thought are no longer content with peaceful co-existence or even debate or ignoring each other at worst. They need to 'violently reject the other' to complete their faith.

 

[haviZsultan]

At the topic. I would seriously like to see one counter-terrorism strategy online. I have searched and searched and failed to find one. Weekly bombings cannot be treated as a small thing. Since I came back here to Pakistan I have been realizing this that we have become "conditioned" to violence and accept its presence anywhere. This is wrong policy at work. We have to fight those who use violent terror to achieve their objectives and we cannot accept people dying as a part of daily life-accepting death as a daily part is dealing with death which politicians and generals both doing the same. It has to end. 79% of all violent deaths in the sub-continent were in Pakistan in 2010 and 2011. This is what we are dealing with. Terrorism cost the life of 4000+ people in 2011 while target killing 1437 and 1127 people in 2011 and 2012 respectively. I have all these statistics but when I qoute them people just look away and it is too much information to grasp so I don't usually.

If these are not strong reports then god knows what is and what I should type in my posts. I remember these facts because I am a nerd... actually as I do facts in the Sachar report... in any case this is a duty for the government of Pakistan to resolve. But the purposely callous nature can be seen in Karachi too where they can end target killings but don't have the political will to do so. So I believe Imran Khan when he says he can end terrorism in 90 days.

@muse, thank you for the thanks as they are a morale booster. I was feeling I am talking to myself for a few days now without anyone even reading my posts. The only place where people read a lot are threads on secularism or persecution of religious minorities.

@fateh71 you are off-topic. Between you and gigawatt you are setting a penchant in this regard. You have derailed 2 threads already. I have Pashtun links on account of a princess we married but this is not proven fully. Research the rohillas if you do not understand who shared the geographic locality as us (UP now)... our ancestral area from fathers side is Kakori and mothers side is barabanki. My identity crisis is not your concern. Your concern is debate on the right thread, on the right topic.

 

[muse]

This is just a theory. The 'problem' as I see it - and for those who would want to know my antecedents, yes I am a human being, Indian and Hindu(in that order) - is that the hardline versions of Islam seem to thrive on what I see as 'violently rejecting the other'.
/QUOTE]

Eyeless, do some research on how SA became Wahabi, It's not quite as simple as it is made out to be - the "cleansing that had to be done must have been horrific -- Read Utopia and Violence

This forum is full of threads warning of what will come of Wahabization - Alas, our leadership is not much concerned

 

[Dushmann]

I don't understand one thing about these bomb blasts in Pakistan, why do we still have to play blame games making blind accusations like Pakistani organizations are behind this, TTP is behind it which in turn comes from Afghanistan, or RAW/CIA must be behind this. By now it should have been clear who is behind it, at least in few cases investigations must have been completed and the criminals caught and sentenced. Even if we consider investigating agencies are not very competent, it's not like there have been just one, two or ten cases. It's been dozens of such blasts now. Maybe even hundreds. I don't remember reading reports about at least some cases have been cracked and that the agencies have identified the accused, these are the confessions, this is the evidence, these are the details how it was planned and these are the people involved and their masterminds. All I remember reading is headlines of blast and how many killed.

 

[muse]

I don't remember reading reports about some cases have been cracked and that the agencies have identified the accused, these are the confessions, this is the evidence, these are the details how it was planned and these are the people involved and their masterminds. All I remember reading is headlines of blast and how many killed

Curious, huh? But ISI is a huge success, like all Pakistani armed forces and state institutions.

Isn't it even more curious that ordinary Pakistanis don't even seek such action?? Look, if they actually do what you are saying then some facts must be faced and Pakistanis do not want to face those facts, all of those facts relate to Real Islam and Arabia - the foreign hand, the "Kharijites" RAW, CIA MOSSAD, MI6, it will all go up in flames - psychologically crippling the Pakistines - we can't have that!

 

[Papa]

Indians can't open threads which paints bad image of Pakistan.

P.S. Don't give excuse that they opened thread on Indian Muslims' conditions, so you can do that.

I am stubborn by birth

 

[Desi Guy]

At the topic. I would seriously like to see one counter-terrorism strategy online. I have searched and searched and failed to find one.

May I contribute Sir. Read about how Sikh extremism was eradicated from Punjab. In early 90s it was being said that its gonna take around 100 yrs to finishdaily bombing and targeted killings from Punjab.But it was finished in a time gap of 8-9 yrs..read this paper in the link

Faultlines 19: A Model for 21st Century Counter-terrorism? - Prem Mahadevan

You can make a separate thread for it ,If you want.