21 people killed in missile attack in Pak

[Kumar]

At least 21 people, including 16 foreign militants, were killed and several others injured in a missile strike carried out by a suspected US drone in Pakistan's North Waziristan tribal region on Saturday.

Official sources were quoted by Dawn News channel as saying that a house in a village in Mohmandkhel area, located 15 km from North Waziristan's main town of Miranshah, was targeted in the attack.

The sources said 16 Arab militants were among the 21 people killed in the strike. Earlier reports had said two women also died in the attack.

The residents of the house fired at the unmanned spy plane, which then fired a missile. The house that was targeted belonged to two Afghan refugees, the sources said.

However, local residents claimed the attack was carried out by two jets that intruded into Pakistani airspace.

They said they had heard the jets flying in the area at the time of the attack.

Pakistan has angrily protested cross-border attacks in its tribal areas by US-led coalition forces from Afghanistan, describing them as a violation of its sovereignty. Despite the protests, the attacks have continued.

 

[Imran Khan]

why its happen again and again pakistan will lose the time for even self defence.may god they reply some answer to nato us

 

[DarkStar]

As I said before, the US is pushing the envelope. Now we apparently have jets flying in and conducting bombing raids.

Reuters had also reported that there was another missile strike yesterday morning in which some civilians were killed. It was later retracted, and now the story is not to be found.

Is this the sovereignty and territorial jkdfub that zardari got promised from his visit to Uncle Sam?

 

[Neo]

Bombing a front line ally while she's celebrating Eid??
With friends like that who needs enemies?

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Bombing a front line ally while she's celebrating Eid??
With friends like that who needs enemies?

Oh indeed, and check out what the US puppet is up to in the IAEA:

http://www.defence.pk/forums/strate...ants-gop-links-khan-network-investigated.html

 

[Neo]

Thats an Afghan talking, probably high on coke. Even US doesn't take them serious.

 

[DarkStar]

Who would, he is a puppet after all. Albeit a puppet wearing Mirza Ghalib era couture, so can't even get a place in sessamee street.

 

[was]

US can not imagine anti-terror war sans Pakistan: Gilani
Updated : Thursday October 2 , 2008 2:33:23 PM


ISLAMABAD: Prime Minister Syed Yousuf Raza Gilani has said that the United States leadership could not imagine the war against terrorism without Pakistani cooperation.

Talking to newsmen at Multan Airport, Gilani Thursday said that Pakistan would be strategic ally of the United States regardless of any government in Washington.

Prime Minister Gilani said he has been in constant contact with both presidential contenders in the United States but the government would not allow any violation of the national sovereignty.

Replying a question about US-India nuclear deal, the prime minister said there is no need to fear the deal adding that Pakistan would also try to get such agreements.

He said Pakistan wants good relations with neighbouring countries. The president would soon visit China and talk with the friendly country to enhance defence cooperation, he said.

Talking on the flour crisis in the country, Gilani said that the government has announced support price for wheat.

 

[muse]

We seem to have gotten into super defensive mode - is everybody overlooking who it was that was targetted and killed? Are you forgetting that aiding and abetting terrorists is a treasonous act?

Lets not hear all this hai hai, doom and gloom BS - fact of the matter is that the area is poluted with extremism and that this extremism has been supported by Pakistani religio-political parties and Pakistani law is of no consequence there.

16 Arab were killed in the strike, what were they doing there? sightseeing? Who maintained these terrorists in thier houses?

Please make up your minds, where do you stand? with Pakistan or with extremists using soverignty as a cover? using the autonomy of FATA and PATA as a cover? Using the religio-political party as a cover, using the feudal Sardari systm as a cove?

Apologies to all who may feel that this is coming on a bit too strong, however; the point needs to be made in a strong manner lest we lose our focus, miss the trees for the forest.

Pakistan have agreed that these predator strikes are necessary because Pakistani forces to have the capacity to initiate these, further if they did have the capacity, the Pakistani political structure will not allow these.

Yesterday the ANP boss was targetted by suicide bombers in his own house, yet it will not have escaped your attention, that none of the religio-polical party bosses have been so targetted, it will not have escaped your attention that neither the JI nor the JUI have called for any political or industrial action nor issued an condemnation - coincidence??

Lets keep our focus, the collateral damage we all decry, is a fact in context, lets keep our attention focused on the context even as we agree that surgery with missiles and bombs and rockets is not possible, at least it is not surgery as it is commonly understood.

 

[DarkStar]

What is the probability that American intelligence always points to the correct place? Have there not been times when innocent civilians are the only ones killed in such attacks? Does the fact that those civilians reside in FATA make it more palatable to us?

It hasn't escaped the attention of the US, that most high level Al qaida suspects were actually arrested within the provinces of Punjab and Sindh. Now what if the drones start firing missiles there? Will you then also support this action?

A civilian in FATA is as much a pakistan as a civilian in RAwalpindi. Using the recently coined American term "collateral damage" plays down the seriousness of civlian casualties. Lets call a spade a spade, and dispense with this military-propagandistic term of collateral damage.

No body is on the side of the terrorists, but if they are in our territory they will be dealt with by us. Hell, the west has already outsourced this war to us, so let us deal with it.

These strikes will only strengthen the militants, and will lead to more terrorism, as no one likes their neighbourhood being attacked. When we sit in Air conditioned rooms, drinking coffee and spending our free time on the internet, people are actually being bombed off the face of the planet. I would like to know how you would react if your room shook with the vibrations of the blast.

Then the canary would be singing a different tune.

 

[muse]

What is the probability that American intelligence always points to the correct place? Have there not been times when innocent civilians are the only ones killed in such attacks? Does the fact that those civilians reside in FATA make it more palatable to us?

Sir, mistakes do occur, it's human beings controlling these missions and there is no such a thing as 100% correct intel -- in view of this ought we not pose the question thusly, What is the probability that American intelligence always points to the wrong place place?

Innocent civilians - indeed, terrorists, extremists make it a point to be in an environment where innocent civilians are present - the extremists are there by design - also do keep in mind that some describe all non-foreigners as "innocent civilians" and this seems to me to be deliberate mischief, clearly those Pakistanis around extremists, terrorists are morely than not, associates of extremists and terrorists.

It hasn't escaped the attention of the US, that most high level Al qaida suspects were actually arrested within the provinces of Punjab and Sindh. Now what if the drones start firing missiles there? Will you then also support this action?

Sir, where these terrorists where arrested is not material, these terrorists did not suddenly appear in Sindh or Punjab, they came there through the FATA - their arrest in Sindh and Punjab is a reflection of the governments writ in these provinces and the lack of it's writ in FATA, where a majority of these drone attack take place - to put it you in a different way, the majority of drone attacks take place in FATA because that is where a majority of terrorists and extremists have found or made, a welcome environment for themselves.

Should Government, through a lack of will and a lack of moral compulsion, allow extrmists and terrorists to make Punajb and Sindh theirs instead of these provinces being a part of Pakistan, most certainly, I will be found suporting the targetting of these terrorists and extremists there as well, in fact Darkstar, most Pakistanis will - Pakistanis want Pakistan, not extremiststan, not terroristan.

No body is on the side of the terrorists, but if they are in our territory they will be dealt with by us

Great, talk the talk, so walk the walk -- There will be no drone attacks necesssary if we do what we should have done in the first place and killed these extremists and terrorists to begin with - but of course the religo-politicians have not allowed that.

no one likes their neighbourhood being attacked

Like some, you appear confused - you seem not to realize who has and is attacking whom? Since when has it been OK for terrorist and extremist to target Pakistanis?? Since when has it been OK for terrorists to target our neighborhoods? or FATA? It has been OK with the religo-political parties, we all know that, but these ar not representative of Pakistan, instead they represent an alien, inhuman, muderderous ideology.

 

[IceCold]

We seem to have gotten into super defensive mode - is everybody overlooking who it was that was targetted and killed? Are you forgetting that aiding and abetting terrorists is a treasonous act?

Lets not hear all this hai hai, doom and gloom BS - fact of the matter is that the area is poluted with extremism and that this extremism has been supported by Pakistani religio-political parties and Pakistani law is of no consequence there.

16 Arab were killed in the strike, what were they doing there? sightseeing? Who maintained these terrorists in thier houses?

Please make up your minds, where do you stand? with Pakistan or with extremists using soverignty as a cover? using the autonomy of FATA and PATA as a cover? Using the religio-political party as a cover, using the feudal Sardari systm as a cove?

Apologies to all who may feel that this is coming on a bit too strong, however; the point needs to be made in a strong manner lest we lose our focus, miss the trees for the forest.

Pakistan have agreed that these predator strikes are necessary because Pakistani forces to have the capacity to initiate these, further if they did have the capacity, the Pakistani political structure will not allow these.

Yesterday the ANP boss was targetted by suicide bombers in his own house, yet it will not have escaped your attention, that none of the religio-polical party bosses have been so targetted, it will not have escaped your attention that neither the JI nor the JUI have called for any political or industrial action nor issued an condemnation - coincidence??

Lets keep our focus, the collateral damage we all decry, is a fact in context, lets keep our attention focused on the context even as we agree that surgery with missiles and bombs and rockets is not possible, at least it is not surgery as it is commonly understood.

Muse does the word soverign has any meaning in your dictionary, because i frankly dont think it has.
Violating and then keep on violating and yeah when militants are killed a few times, more civilians are killed as well. How can we just pass it up as a collateral damage. What have they done wrong to be a part of that collateral damage. Why not you and me? You see its easy said then done. The ones that suffered are the only ones who can imagine what it is like when a love one is not there anymore and that too on an Eid day. If he will not think of revenge then what else would he think off? Flowers!
Also i was watching kasurai's interview in which he said that we allowed the drones to fly in on one condition that is the pictures that they will take will then be shared with Pakistan because Pakistan did not have the required gear to take pictures,all required action will be taken by the PA. But guess what we never ever got the pictures instead we got hell fires.
My point is why in the hell is the US so shy from sharing the intelligence and well since it is then who gives it the right to conduct unilateral actions inside Pakistani territory. Militants or no militants, its the job of the Law enforcements of that respective country not from across the border. And if we go by your theory that it is all right that our soverignity being violated, why stop India then, since they are too saying that there are terror camps in AJK, let them take that out as well afterall its the bad guys we are talking about, who cares if soverignity gets violated a few times.

 

[muse]

Icecold

Soverign and soverignty meas the same thing in everybody's dictionary - is FATA soverign Pakistani territory?? -- Careful with the answer - if you answer yes, then you hold the government of Pakistan responsible for allowing terrorists on it's soil and you hold the government of Pakistan responsible for the launching of insurrgents from it's territory, across a border it recognizes into another soverign state.

Look, as a Pakistani it is most distressing that it's technically it's territory is violated - however; two points:

1. Government of Pakistan has allowed Predator attacks because it cannot get tot he extrmists and terrorists.

2. Predator attacks are aimed at terrorists and extremists who have robbed the Pakistani state of it's soverignty in FATA.

Lets think more and feel less -- feelings are very important, but states do not conduct their business based on "feelings".

 

[IceCold]

Icecold

Soverign and soverignty meas the same thing in everybody's dictionary - is FATA soverign Pakistani territory?? -- Careful with the answer - if you answer yes, then you hold the government of Pakistan responsible for allowing terrorists on it's soil and you hold the government of Pakistan responsible for the launching of insurrgents from it's territory, across a border it recognizes into another soverign state.

Look, as a Pakistani it is most distressing that it's technically it's territory is violated - however; two points:

1. Government of Pakistan has allowed Predator attacks because it cannot get tot he extrmists and terrorists.

2. Predator attacks are aimed at terrorists and extremists who have robbed the Pakistani state of it's soverignty in FATA.

Lets think more and feel less -- feelings are very important, but states do not conduct their business based on "feelings".

Lets get back to what history has to say. When the tribal areas voted in favour of Pakistan that was based on the condition of autonomy, so why to raise something that was never an issue at the first place. These areas have always been federally administrated. But having said so they were and are a part of Pakistan and with that said, any country that violates even that part of the territory is infact violating Pakistani airspace.
Now coming back to the topic, let me clear this up, no one and i mean no one from the government, the people of other areas of Pakistan and the tribals support militants. The recent example is that the tribal laskars have risen themself to root out the militancy in that area which clearly suggests that these people have nothing to do with terrorism or militancy and just want to live on with their life. So in a situation like this one has to be clear whether we alienate them and hence suffer more casualties or perhaps we take them on board and move on with a joint strategy. The problem occurs when the US jumps in. For them anyone and every one holding an AK-47 is either a militant or a taliban and they take him out irrespective of any remorse and so with that, mostly where militants are taken out and i dont deny that, however large part of what we call colateral damage, civilians are taken out. For example the kind of action that they took recently with commandos being deployed on our side which received a heavy back lash from Pakistan.
My point is that this has to stop. The permission that was given to them as suggested by the former foreign minister was to only photograph and give the required intelligence to us so that we can take action, nowhere it said that you can hit a missile whenever and wherever you deem fit. This has caused server problems for the Pakistan army operating there. The thing that i want to say is that if we are fighting for the same cause then why isnt the intelligence being shared, whats forcing the US to withhold the information, the only possible answer that comes to mind is that US is up too no good, taking out militants is just a cover up for a bigger game plan and they are preparing grounds to attack Pakistan for whatever reason that they taking out nukes or deattach these areas from Pakistan or to stop the Chinese use of gawdar.

The difference between them attacking and PA taking action is that unlike the US who can kill anyone who it considers to be a taliban, PA does not have that luxury and we have to be carefull in that area not to cause civilian casualties. Also when the US attacks, the tribals see it as an outside force which is not the case when PA goes in. The example to this is that where on one hand the tribals are working very closely with the Pakistan army to root out terrorism, they have threaten to join in with the talibans in afghanistan to fight off the americans if this unilateral strikes dont stop.

As for Pakistan govenment being responsible, well i guess there is no denying in that however it wasnt the Pakistani government alone, the US was also involved in that. And by the way this is another mess that US is eqaully responsible but does not seem to be ready to share the blame and we are bearing the whole load of it.

 

[niaz]

I have seen the Dawn report. It also mentions that ISPR has denied that this incident occurred inside Pakistan.

Apparently this was news item was picked up from a foreign News Agency without any name being quoted. I would rather believe ISPR release which says that attack was inside Afghanistan. All this debate is therefore pointless.