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200 years of Kashmir and Afghanistan

Yes both Hindu Dogras and Sikhs were too kind to non-Muslims only !


please be specific about which period are you talking about.

There were periods when Sikhs and dogra rule was good
While in other periods it may not have been good.

But throughout this period, Muslims remained a majority in the region.
 
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Please do not distract from the thread. otherwise you will be given negative rating as a warning. Thank you.
No Sir. Just the history of region.

I am only discussing the logic behind the thread you have started,It is up to you to answer my question. Rather you are reasoning that the thread should be discussed as per your logic, which I feel not a good discussion.

You can continue your discussion, I am out of here !

Regarding negative ratings ... any guy TTA can give one , that is not my concern.
 
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They ruled effectively 1846 - 1925 while Raja Gulab singh and Ranveer Singh its true rulers who not only consolidated their rule but also expended it.
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What's your view about period of 1815-1846 in Kashmir (and even perhaps in Afghanistan).

Thank you.
 
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Folks!

Just imagine you are living in the world of 1815 AD.

Ask yourself What's going on in the region from Kashmir to Afghanistan and parts in between that are now a country called Pakistan.

So it is 1815 AD, This area is more or less independent of Delhi rule (or soon to be independent).

Move from this year all the way to August 1947. then stop.

And ask some fundamental questions.

1. Will Kashmir be peaceful regions from 1815 AD to 1947. will this be the golden period of Kashmir.
2. Will Afghanistan be peaceful regions from 1815 AD to 1947. will this be the golden period of Afghanistan.

Then ask the same questions with the period from 1947 to 2015AD

1. Has Kashmir been peaceful regions from 1815 AD to 1947. has this been the golden period of Kashmir.
2. Has Afghanistan been peaceful regions from 1815 AD to 1947. has this been the golden period of Afghanistan.

Thank you.


Some of you must be wondering why I started this thread? That old tried question "Why?"

Here are simple answers:

1. To do a controlled study to find the destabilizing factors in the region before and after 1947
2. To learn from the successes of any period that brought stability to Kashmir and Afghanistan before and after 1947.

Hope this helps to focus your answers and posts.


p.s. Since this topic is so vast, I'll continue adding to this thread as time permits.

@Atanz, @Gufi, @Slav Defence, @Luftwaffe, @WebMaster, @Jungibaaz, @jaibi, @notsuperstitious, @Azlan Haider, @ajpirzada, @DESERT FIGHTER, @AgNoStiC MuSliM, @Jazzbot, @Jf Thunder, @Hyperion, @JonAsad, @Nihonjin1051, @cirr, @Cherokee @Donatello, @Genesis, @Bamxa, @SarthakGanguly, @Cat Shannon, @Butchcassidy, @Norwegian, @Mr.UTurn, @GreenFalcon, @Syed.Ali.Haider,

@Joe Shearer, @scorpionx, @Irfan Baloch, @orangzaib, @jhungary, @Xeric, @Icarus, @CENTCOM
Kashmir was really peaceful between 1947 and 1989. A lot of pakistanis dont realize that MAJ and League had practically zero influence on valley muslims. Sheikh Abdullah was their Jinnah.
Frankly knowledge on Afghanistan is zero.
 
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Kashmir was really peaceful between 1947 and 1989. A lot of pakistanis dont realize that MAJ and League had practically zero influence on valley muslims. Sheikh Abdullah was their Jinnah.
Frankly knowledge on Afghanistan is zero.

This is a bit of overstatement. The region was plagued with uprising and war during that time.

In either case

What's your views about period of 1815-1947
 
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Pointless comparison, Pakistan kashmir is peaceful and Jammu region where majority are hindus also live in relatively peace. Its fate of Kashmir valley which is yet to be decided.

Afghanistan could have been peaceful, they decided their own fate by inviting Soviot Union IMO.
 
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Again that obsession with Kashmir!

Going by this line, should we do a similar analysis of Karachi and Lahore as well?

Anyway, yeah Kashmir was quite peaceful until Pakistan sent in tribesmen attackers in 1947-48 and then streams of jihadi nuts especially starting in the late 80's I think. In the intervening years 60s to 85+ I think it was quite peaceful.

But @faujiHistorian - this whole argument makes no sense. if alexander hadn't invaded, if british hand't, if mugals hand't.....bla bla bla...all that cannot be reversed.

Past doesn't cure present.
 
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This is a bit of overstatement. The region was plagued with uprising and war during that time.

In either case

What's your views about period of 1815-1947
I sir am speaking about the valley proper, not the hilly areas of the riyasat. Valley muslims were not willing to share power with anyone. Trust me, my maternal side is from baramula and my grandfather was sheikh abdullah's confidant and became the first ...... (Cant reveal) J and K :partay:.
Between 1815 and 1947, kashmir was a colony and was treated like a colony :azn:
 
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Again that obsession with Kashmir!

Going by this line, should we do a similar analysis of Karachi and Lahore as well?

Anyway, yeah Kashmir was quite peaceful until Pakistan sent in tribesmen attackers in 1947-48 and then streams of jihadi nuts especially starting in the late 80's I think. In the intervening years 60s to 85+ I think it was quite peaceful.

But @faujiHistorian - this whole argument makes no sense. if alexander hadn't invaded, if british hand't, if mugals hand't.....bla bla bla...all that cannot be reversed.

Past doesn't cure present.

Absolutely. but please open a separate thread.

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Between 1815 and 1947, kashmir was a colony and was treated like a colony :azn:

Whose colony?
 
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you think now it is colony of Delhi?
That my friend is a philosophical question.
They get to elect their own representatives. India doesn't allow outsiders to settle there, so they dont have to worry about losing their cultural identity. Apart from complete independence india has bent over backwards to accomodate them.
Its for them to decide whether they want to stay with India, if they say no then they have to figure out how to get what they want.
 
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Folks!

Just imagine you are living in the world of 1815 AD.

Ask yourself What's going on in the region from Kashmir to Afghanistan and parts in between that are now a country called Pakistan.

So it is 1815 AD, This area is more or less independent of Delhi rule (or soon to be independent).

Move from this year all the way to August 1947. then stop.

And ask some fundamental questions.

1. Will Kashmir be peaceful regions from 1815 AD to 1947. will this be the golden period of Kashmir.
2. Will Afghanistan be peaceful regions from 1815 AD to 1947. will this be the golden period of Afghanistan.

Then ask the same questions with the period from 1947 to 2015AD

1. Has Kashmir been peaceful regions from 1815 AD to 1947. has this been the golden period of Kashmir.
2. Has Afghanistan been peaceful regions from 1815 AD to 1947. has this been the golden period of Afghanistan.

Thank you.


Some of you must be wondering why I started this thread? That old tried question "Why?"

Here are simple answers:

1. To do a controlled study to find the destabilizing factors in the region before and after 1947
2. To learn from the successes of any period that brought stability to Kashmir and Afghanistan before and after 1947.

Hope this helps to focus your answers and posts.


p.s. Since this topic is so vast, I'll continue adding to this thread as time permits.

@Atanz, @Gufi, @Slav Defence, @Luftwaffe, @WebMaster, @Jungibaaz, @jaibi, @notsuperstitious, @Azlan Haider, @ajpirzada, @DESERT FIGHTER, @AgNoStiC MuSliM, @Jazzbot, @Jf Thunder, @Hyperion, @JonAsad, @Nihonjin1051, @cirr, @Cherokee @Donatello, @Genesis, @Bamxa, @SarthakGanguly, @Cat Shannon, @Butchcassidy, @Norwegian, @Mr.UTurn, @GreenFalcon, @Syed.Ali.Haider,

@Joe Shearer, @scorpionx, @Irfan Baloch, @orangzaib, @jhungary, @Xeric, @Icarus, @CENTCOM

Timeline of Kashmir

1819-1947

Major Milestones

1819 - Control Passes to Ranjit Singh of Lahore after being under control of Durrani Empire and Mughals for past three centuries or so.

1845 Anglo-Sikh War: Gulab Singh (Dogras) conspired with British in a nutshell to gain control of Jammu and Kashmir from Sikhs. British got control of Lahore as part of Lahore Treaty from Sikhs and Gulab Singh gets Jammu, Kashmir and Ladakh.

1857: Dogras provide passive support to British and take no major part in the 1857 War of Independence.

This period was characterized by intensive taxes but was relatively free from religious tensions and strife. There was a Hindu rule and Hindu customs like ban of beef slaughter was imposed, some mosques were closed but the Hindu minority and Sunni Muslim Majority lived in relative peace as they did all over India.

Reasons for Peace:

1. The resentment was directed towards the White Britishers who were perhaps consider an alien force unlike physically similar Hindus and Muslims.

2. Dogras and Sikhs were not totally despotic as evidenced by interest free loans granted to farmers during the famine of 1832 and waiver of half the taxes.

3. Less awareness of rights, no proliferation of media like newspapers, T.V. news etc.

4. Population was used to autocratic rule. Conditions all over India were more or less similar. No yardstick to compare their situation too?

1947-2015

I believe we are more or less well informed about the timeline so I will straight away get into reasons for destabilization

Facts
1. In 1947, 1965, 1999 Pak army and tribals from Pakistan invade Kashmir with a view of detaching it from India which has led to increased violence.
2. Destabilization is supported by Pakistan at least morally. It is the stated goal of Pakistani Govt to detach Kashmir from India by giving support for popular uprising against Indian State.
3. AFPA (Armed Forces Protection Act) is discriminatory against Kashmiri Population.
4. Huge presence of Indian Army at Kashmir to prevent terrorism, eliminate insurgency and discourage Pakistan from invading Kashmir. Human Rights violations have been committed by Indian army and due AFPA there is no clarity whether the violators are punished justly.
5. Lack of Plebiscite which would settle the Kashmir question for once and all. People of Kashmir would get to be masters of their own destiny rather than being a bone of contention b/w India and Pakistan.
6. Increased communication access which has led to ease of spread of tensions via internet, cellphones, print and electronic media
 
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