1962: For anyone who haven't read this...

[CardSharp]

For a "sharp" knife in the drawer, you may feel that you are on a "mission" here ...

But do you really think you stand a chance in "getting through" to someone who, odds are, is "commissioned"?

I don't dislike Gambit. I really don't. But he is not "working" effectively these days I am afraid.

Nevertheless, you are not on "company time". And I have a nagging feeling he is.

Speak English man! Make yourself plain.

 

[gambit]

Well not to mention the fact that you were traumatized as a child by the civil war and come to blame China for the tragedy of that war.

Isn't that pretty much what you are about?

Spare me the pop psychiatry. Heard them all and nothing worthwhile came out of them.

(ps love the fact that you call me and Dragon a racist because other Chinese people have made racist remarks)

What I said was not directed at either of you but about enough of that behavior. Your boys, plural, started it long ago. Now watch everyone scramble with the search feature and edit their racist insults out...

 

[CardSharp]

Spare me the pop psychiatry. Heard them all and nothing worthwhile came out of them.


What I said was not directed at either of you but about enough of that behavior. Your boys, plural, started it long ago. Now watch everyone scramble with the search feature and edit their racist insults out...

I actually remembered me trying to make amends and asking you to get off my back but whatever. I'm not interested in this moral battle.

 

[Chinese-Dragon]

Speak English man! Make yourself plain.

LOL he's just putting forward some kind of conspiracy theory, we should just stick to the topic and ignore it.

 

[gambit]

I actually remembered me trying to make amends and asking you to get off my back but whatever. I'm not interested in this moral battle.

Very good...Now ALL of you boys need to take challenges like matured adults. I do not care what you crow about China, but if you mention something inaccurate about the Vietnam War or something technically false, understand that this is not your playground, you are just as much a guest here as I am, and you will be challenged to back up your argument.

 

[CardSharp]

Very good...Now ALL of you boys need to take challenges like matured adults. I do not care what you crow about China, but if you mention something inaccurate about the Vietnam War or something technically false, understand that this is not your playground, you are just as much a guest here as I am, and you will be challenged to back up your argument.

Fair enough, I'd very happy to have your perspective on this forum. All I'd ask is that you'd not assume the worse about me right off the bat.

 

[TexasJohn]

Here's a humourous article on Tibet's early military history. I've highlighted the bit about the 1904 British invasion of Tibet and Francis Younghusband.

Also here is the wiki

Francis Younghusband - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Yes, it humorous, but very factual. The Brits were very brutal in their conquests, consider the zulu wars in Africa. That was mass genocide, but there was not internet or CNN back then. The only reporters were British military. How convenient! I'm still reading btw....

 

[CardSharp]

Yes, it humorous, but very factual. The Brits were very brutal in their conquests, consider the zulu wars in Africa. That was mass genocide, but there was not internet or CNN back then. The only reporters were British military. How convenient! I'm still reading btw....

I highly recommend to everyone the war nerd's other articles as well.

http://exiledonline.com/cat/war-nerd/

 

[TexasJohn]

I highly recommend to everyone the war nerd's other articles as well.

THE EXILED – MANKIND'S ONLY ALTERNATIVE The War Nerd

Does seem to be an interesting site. I will go through it.

May I ask a simple favor out of you, Gambit, and Chinese-Dragon?

May I please play peacemaker here?

I understand you guys have bones to pick. So be it.

But all of us appear to be intellectuals.

So let's all of us have a decent discussion here! This is a good thread.

All those in favor say "AYE"!

 

[Chinese-Dragon]

All those in favor say "AYE"!

The people have given their "AYE's", using the "thanks" button.

 

[k7x]

it is really confusing these days, when china says Tibet is its part and not a disputed territory because it was part of Chinese empire...

well Kashmir, Punjab and sindh and once afganistan was also part of old Bharat kindoms , so but for China , kashmir is a disputed teritorty hmm..

istnt it a double standard.

 

[Chinese-Dragon]

it is really confusing these days, when china says Tibet is its part and not a disputed territory because it was part of Chinese empire...

well Kashmir, Punjab and sindh and once afganistan was also part of old Bharat kindoms , so but for China , kashmir is a disputed teritorty hmm..

istnt it a double standard.

You're right, there are double standards all over the place.

The difference is mostly "political" now, i.e. the Government of India has recognized Tibet as a part of China since the beginning... wheras Kashmir is still disputed amongst China/India/Pakistan.

China's claims in Kashmir are a result of the 1962 war and because modern China is allied with Pakistan.

In principle I agree with you, that there are double standards. You'll have to ask the GoI why they recognized Tibet, without asking China to recognize Jammu and Kashmir in return.

Is there any way for China to recognize Jammu and Kashmir, without making our Pakistani allies very VERY angry at us? I think that will be very difficult... verging on the impossible.

 

[TexasJohn]

For the response to post #114:

Thanks guys, I really appreciate that. Now for more reading.

There is a whole lot more about Tibet's history than meets the eye. They went from being warlike to be a pacifist ( kinda) nation after buddism took hold.

How long was Tibet a "protectorate" of China? Was a treaty ever signed with China?

 

[CardSharp]

it is really confusing these days, when china says Tibet is its part and not a disputed territory because it was part of Chinese empire...

well Kashmir, Punjab and sindh and once afganistan was also part of old Bharat kindoms , so but for China , kashmir is a disputed teritorty hmm..

istnt it a double standard.

India entered the modern era as a colony of Britain, and as such inherited colonial borders not whatever imperial that may have existed before.

I'd also like to point out there are no country on this green earth which claims Tibet other than China (ok, the ROC too). Hence it is not a "disputed" region by definition. Whereas J&K is disputed between two legitimate nation states (Pakistan and India).

For the response to post #114:

Thanks guys, I really appreciate that. Now for more reading.

There is a whole lot more about Tibet's history than meets the eye. They went from being warlike to be a pacifist ( kinda) nation after buddism took hold.

How long was Tibet a "protectorate" of China? Was a treaty ever signed with China?

THAT is a can of worms. You have to understand what imperial China was back then. It was a utter self-centered and complacent nation that thought there are no places worth living outside of China (or ZhongQuo, the middle kingdom).

What it did require of those heathens in the scrub lands was suzerainty. In return for token fealty and symbolic subservience, it granted generous gifts and if you didn't give it, you can expect an army at your door step to F' thing up. So while China and its emperors could care less about actually running those places and gave it great autonomy, it did consider it to be a part of its control area.

(Just as a side note, this is similar to the treatment that Vietnam recieve over history. IMO Vietnamese are kinda justified in hating China)

So when the Qing dynasty collapsed, and China fragment into De Facto warlord kingdoms, central control was lost, only to be re-establish by the communists in the 50's. Rule since then have been different in that for the first time direct China rule was administered, first through a puppet Dalai Lama, then nakedly by the CCP.

 

[TexasJohn]

India entered the modern era as a colony of Britain, and as such inherited colonial borders not whatever imperial that may have existed before.

I'd also like to point out there are no country on this green earth which claims Tibet other than China (ok, the ROC too). Hence it is not a "disputed" region by definition. Whereas J&K is disputed between two legitimate nation states (Pakistan and India).




THAT is a can of worms. You have to understand what imperial China was back then. It was a utter self-centered and complacent nation that thought there are no places worth living outside of China (or ZhongQuo, the middle kingdom).

What it did require of those heathens in the scrub lands was suzerainty. In return for token fealty and symbolic subservience, it granted generous gifts and if you didn't give it, you can expect an army at your door step to F' thing up. So while China and its emperors could care less about actually running those places and gave it great autonomy, it did consider it to be a part of its control area.

(Just as a side note, this is similar to the treatment that Vietnam recieve over history. IMO Vietnamese are kinda justified in hating China)

So when the Qing dynasty collapsed, and China fragment into De Facto warlord kingdoms, central control was lost, only to be re-establish by the communists in the 50's. Rule since then have been different in that for the first time direct China rule was administered, first through a puppet Dalai Lama, then nakedly by the CCP.

I feel sorry for the Tibetians now.

The Brits beat up on them because they were bored and wanted to,

and

Mao basically took over Tibet because he could!

Kashmir would be a whole different and emotionally charged issue ( in case you have not noticed). I would rather leave it out if you don't mind