1904 China map admits Paracel, Spratly not Chinese territory

[Snomannen]

middle land of China: 中原. Do you know where is this land ?

Depends on which dynasty of China.
During the Southern Song, "middle land" = Jin Dynasty = "中國"
During the Qing Dynasty, It means 直省 (provinces directly under control of the central government)

 

[EastSea]

Depends on which dynasty of China.
During the Southern Song, "middle land" = Jin Dynasty = "中國"
During the Qing Dynasty, It means 直省 (provinces directly under control of the central government)

Don't get away, answer my question first: Where is 中原 ?

 

[Snomannen]

Don't get away, answer my question first: Where is 中原 ?

How many degrees of short-sighted are you?

 

[Diamond_Gold]

How many degrees of short-sighted are you?

All the while he has been contracted with Selective blindness and a Very serious myopia. LOLOL...

 

[Đảo Bạch Long Vỹ]

Vietnam, Korea and Japan also used to call themselves "Middle Land（中華/中國）", so?

YUNo read? --> [those maps you have posted above in this thread]

I'm pointing out the mistake, I give you advise, I'm HELPING you, but look at your attitude.

What's your point with "Middle land"? "Middle land" is the phrase which was used by a country to call itself if that country think it's more advanced than their neighbours. It's referring to politics, not geography, so you can't say "there is "Middle Land" in the map, so the map is only about land". It's as ridiculous as one of your compatriots argument: "All lands under sky belong to China".
And I'm also pointing out the mistake: If you mean "China's full map" is the map that has Paracels, then China had no "full map" until 193x. So why I can "submit China's full map" if there is nothing like that?

 

[BoQ77]

You narrow your land just into Zhongyuan huh ?
As I know, in this case Zhongyuan is not just the geography meaning.

直省 means all the provinces controlled by the Emperor ...

Clearly that, Vietnam, Mongolie, Coree, Tibet , including Paracels ... are not under control of the Qing Emperor,. It's more clear than your words

Pals, could you help to translate all the description at the top of the Map ? Thanks in advance

 

[BoQ77]

Depends on which dynasty of China.
During the Southern Song, "middle land" = Jin Dynasty = "中國"
During the Qing Dynasty, It means 直省 (provinces directly under control of the central government)

You make sure what you said ? Zhongyuan means all provinces under control of the Qing dynasty ??

 

[Snomannen]

What's your point with "Middle land"? "Middle land" is the phrase which was used by a country to call itself if that country think it's more advanced than their neighbours. It's referring to politics, not geography, so you can't say "there is "Middle Land" in the map, so the map is only about land". It's as ridiculous as one of your compatriots argument: "All lands under sky belong to China".
And I'm also pointing out the mistake: If you mean "China's full map" is the map that has Paracels, then China had no "full map" until 193x. So why I can "submit China's full map" if there is nothing like that?

You still didn't get it right and keep misunderstanding my opinion, I never say something like these:

[There is "Middle Land" in the map, so the map is only about land.], and
[China's full map" is the map that has Paracels.]
your argument is not even valid.

Also:
1. The phrase "Middle Land" is not only for "outside", but also for "inside".
For example, we people from the SAR are accustomed to call northerners "Mainlander".
2. No mistake from me, what I have said are all true.
The fact is, the title of the 1904 map in the museum is "The Map of the whole 直省 (provinces directly under control of the central government) of the Empire". In simple words, it is just a "part-of-China" map. So, again, here is my suggestion I have been explaining for hours: Instead of displaying this map, use a full map (which you have already posted them in this thread).
And again, I'm just trying to HELP you.

 

[Snomannen]

You make sure what you said ? Zhongyuan means all provinces under control of the Qing dynasty ??

Yes I'm totally sure, you just misunderstand the point.
The range and the meaning of "middle land" (中國／中原／中&#33775has been changing for thousands years.

As I said,
during the Southern Song Dynasty, Jin Dynasty is the "middle land"(中國／中原
during the Qing Dynasty, 直省 is the "middle land" (中原
nowadays, we HKese, Mese and Tese call the PRC "Mainland".

and sorry for my poor language skill.

 

[asean_2015]

You still didn't get it right and keep misunderstanding my opinion, I never say something like these:

[There is "Middle Land" in the map, so the map is only about land.], and
[China's full map" is the map that has Paracels.]
your argument is not even valid.

Also:
1. The phrase "Middle Land" is not only for "outside", but also for "inside".
For example, we people from the SAR are accustomed to call northerners "Mainlander".
2. No mistake from me, what I have said are all true.
The fact is, the title of the 1904 map in the museum is "The Map of the whole 直省 (provinces directly under control of the central government) of the Empire". In simple words, it is just a "part-of-China" map. So, again, here is my suggestion I have been explaining for hours: Instead of displaying this map, use a full map (which you have already posted them in this thread).
And again, I'm just trying to HELP you.

As I understand, the map was named the map of all provinces belonging to the empire. The main reason is the Qing Dynasty, which replaced the Shun and Ming dynasties in China, was founded by Manchus from Manchuria (modern Northeastern China). However, the Manchu emperors did not fully integrate their homeland into China. Am I right?

 

[Đảo Bạch Long Vỹ]

You still didn't get it right and keep misunderstanding my opinion, I never say something like these:

[There is "Middle Land" in the map, so the map is only about land.], and
[China's full map" is the map that has Paracels.]
your argument is not even valid.

Also:
1. The phrase "Middle Land" is not only for "outside", but also for "inside".
For example, we people from the SAR are accustomed to call northerners "Mainlander".
2. No mistake from me, what I have said are all true.
The fact is, the title of the 1904 map in the museum is "The Map of the whole 直省 (provinces directly under control of the central government) of the Empire". In simple words, it is just a "part-of-China" map. So, again, here is my suggestion I have been explaining for hours: Instead of displaying this map, use a full map (which you have already posted them in this thread).
And again, I'm just trying to HELP you.

It's too complicated, I don't understand what you have said. So please post a "full map" before 1904 here as an example, so I can understand what is a "full map" in your definition. And please translate the title of that map.

 

[asean_2015]

Yes I'm totally sure, you just misunderstand the point.
The range and the meaning of "middle land" (中國／中原／中&#33775has been changing for thousands years.

As I said,
during the Southern Song Dynasty, Jin Dynasty is the "middle land"(中國／中原
during the Qing Dynasty, 直省 is the "middle land" (中原
nowadays, we HKese, Mese and Tese call the PRC "Mainland".

and sorry for my poor language skill.

直省 is 直省. It is not 中原. you can blame your ancestor since they did not write 中原 to the map. They were honest. You should not betray your ancestor.

 

[Snomannen]

It's too complicated, I don't understand what you have said. So please post a "full map" before 1904 here as an example, so I can understand what is a "full map" in your definition. And please translate the title of that map.

You have ALREADY posted the "full map", please go back to the lower floors and find them back.

As I understand, the map was named the map of all provinces belonging to the empire. The main reason is the Qing Dynasty, which replaced the Shun and Ming dynasties in China, was founded by Manchus from Manchuria (modern Northeastern China). However, the Manchu emperors did not fully integrate their homeland into China. Am I right?

The map is nothing related to the differences of ethnics.
and can you tell me how did you come to this conclusion?
[the Manchu emperors did not fully integrate their homeland into China.]

 

[asean_2015]

You have ALREADY posted the "full map", please go back to the lower floors and find them back.



The map is nothing related to the differences of ethnics.
and can you tell me how did you come to this conclusion?
[the Manchu emperors did not fully integrate their homeland into China.]

Yes, it is very related.
You can look again at the history of Manchukuo. Manchukuo - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Snomannen]

直省 is 直省. It is not 中原. you can blame your ancestor since they did not write 中原 to the map. They were honest. You should not betray your ancestor.

Of course it is, 直省=中原=Middle Land.
The difference is, 直省 is a official phrase, 中原 is only a concept of region.

Yes, it is very related.
You can look again at the history of Manchukuo. Manchukuo - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The history of Manchukuo is not related to ethnics either.