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1904 China map admits Paracel, Spratly not Chinese territory

Old map proves China’s claims are worthless

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Last update 01/08/2012 11:00:00 SA (GMT+7)

VietNamNet Bridge – An old Chinese map published during the Qing dynasty in 1904 indicates that the most southerly point of China is Hainan Island and it does not include the Hoang Sa (Paracel) and Truong Sa (Spratly) Archipelagoes.

The aged Chinese map, an administrative boundary map of provinces, is historical evidence and a legal proof that confirms Vietnam’s sovereignty over Hoang Sa and Truong Sa.
It was in the possession of Dr. Mai Ngoc Hong, a former head of the Han-Nom Institute’s Library and Documentation Department and Director of the Vietnam Family Annals Scientific Application and Research Centre. He presented it to the Vietnam National Museum of History on the morning of July 25.
Hong, who had owned the map for 35 years, said that in 1904 it was the most modern map of China , after Emperors from the Qing Dynasty had directed clergymen, astronomers and surveyors to produce it. It was created across almost two centuries (1708-1904) from the Emperor Kangxi to the Emperor Guangxu.
More specifically, in 1708, the 47 th Emperor Kangxi, recruited several western clergymen, including Joachim Bouvet, Petrus Pierre Jartoux, Jean Baptiste Regis and Xavier Ehrenbert Fridelli, who were initially charged with drawing a map of the Great Wall.
However in 1711, the Emperor asked them to survey the 13 provinces he was ruler of.
From that date onwards, for almost 200 years, Chinese and western intellectuals have together collected and researched China’s administrative boundary maps to supplement the original ones made by clergymen. The prestigious western clergymen that helped China to produce the map included Matteo Ricci, Joannes Adam Schall Von Bell, and Ferdinandus Verbiest.
Hong said the map’s accuracy and scientific features are reflected in the fact that it in a serious manner by scientists under the close guidance of the emperors.
The map has coordinates, meridians, latitudes and longitudes, showing its legality. It indicates that the southernmost point of China is Hainan Island and it does not include Hoang Sa and Truong Sa.
According to the researcher of ancient Chinese script, Pham Hoang Quan, under the reign of the Qing dynasty, the majority of China’s administrative maps show the nation’s exact territorial boundaries to scale.
Apart from the above-mentioned map, there were other maps such as a national map of China completed in 1719. The project was initiated by Emperor Kangxi and carried out by western clergymen. The map clearly states the southernmost point of China’s territory as Ya Zhou, now Hainan , at latitude of 18 degree 21’36 north.
The map is of special significance and lays the foundation in terms of the longitude and latitude for most subsequent administrative maps, even the Qing dynasty’s map in 1904, stressed Quan.
Regarding the historical evidence confirming Vietnam’s sovereignty over the Truong Sa and Hoang Sa archipelagoes, historian Duong Trung Quoc said that ever since the Nguyen Dynasty, Vietnam has controlled and managed the Hoang Sa and Truong Sa archipelagos.
Bibliographies and maps of Vietnamese dynasties mention the Nguyen Lords, who sent the Bac Hai and Hoang Sa naval forces to the islands. In 1834, the Minh Mang dynasty had produced a map showing the Truong Sa strip clearly positioned in the East Sea, said the historian.
According to East Sea researcher Dinh Kim Phuc, the discovery of the 1904 map made by the Chinese themselves and published over 100 years ago is of great significance.
“This is even more ammunition for our dossier of evidence confirming Vietnam’s sovereignty over Hoang Sa and Truong Sa, which will be submitted to the United Nations in the future”, he said.

VietNamNet
 
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Let focus on the subject,

Look at the 1904 map of Qing Dynasty, could you see any evidence showing that Paracel islands belong to Chinese ?
tell me Chinese pals ???

Whether Paracel islands belong to Vietnam or not, it's another subject, those need Vietnamese showing their evidences ...

Chinese men are smart, do not think that the nine dashed line map without any exact figures could lure them ... you could draw by pencil onto an existent map easily ... We could give you the eraser,
all kids could be superior than you in drawing the line without dashed ...

What happen to the gap between those nine dashed lines ?? It confirm the doubt of the Chinese , right ?

Think again ... why 9 dashed lines ??
verafiles-9dash.jpg
 
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Old map proves China’s claims are worthless

VietNamNet Bridge – An old Chinese map published during the Qing dynasty in 1904 indicates that the most southerly point of China is Hainan Island and it does not include the Hoang Sa (Paracel) and Truong Sa (Spratly) Archipelagoes.[/B]

The aged Chinese map, an administrative boundary map of provinces, is historical evidence and a legal proof that confirms Vietnam’s sovereignty over Hoang Sa and Truong Sa.

They still don't realize that it is just a "直省" map, not a full map like those you have posted above?
 
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Đảo Bạch Long Vỹ;3257520 said:
lol so post your "full map" here :cheesy:
You guys just don't have a single "full map" before 1904?


Why?
You are the one who display an old "MIDDLE LAND OF CHINA" map in a MUSEUM as an evidence.
I repeat, you are using the WRONG map, that's it.

Again, if you want to show evidence, submit a CHINA MAP (like those maps you have posted above in this thread) to the UN, not a PART-OF-CHINA MAP.
Is it clear enough?
 
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Why?
You are the one who display an old "MIDDLE LAND OF CHINA" map in a MUSEUM as an evidence.
I repeat, you are using the WRONG map, that's it.

Again, if you want to show evidence, submit a CHINA MAP (like those maps you have posted above in this thread) to the UN, not a PART-OF-CHINA MAP.
Is it clear enough?

Lol I think China call itself "Midde land", am I wrong? :rofl:
And if you mean "China's full map" is the map that has Paracels, then China had had no "full map" until 193x :rofl:
 
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Đảo Bạch Long Vỹ;3257652 said:
Lol I think China call itself "Midde land", am I wrong? :rofl:
And if you mean "China's full map" is the map that has Paracels, then China had had no "full map" until 193x :rofl:


Vietnam, Korea and Japan also used to call themselves "Middle Land(中華/中國)", so?

YUNo read? --> [those maps you have posted above in this thread]

I'm pointing out the mistake, I give you advise, I'm HELPING you, but look at your attitude.
 
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They still don't realize that it is just a "直省" map, not a full map like those you have posted above?

So, Which province of China which Hoang Sa (Paracel) Islands and Truong Sa (Spratly) Islands belong to?
Wasn't that province shown on the map of China 1904?

Vietnam, Korea and Japan also used to call themselves "Middle Land(中華/中國)", so?

YUNo read? --> [those maps you have posted above in this thread]

I'm pointing out the mistake, I give you advise, I'm HELPING you, but look at your attitude.

What the hell was "Middle Land"?
We only know "China" or "Trung quốc" was transcribed from "中国". What the hell "Middle Land"?
 
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So, Which province of China which Hoang Sa (Paracel) Islands and Truong Sa (Spratly) Islands belong to?
Wasn't that province shown on the map of China 1904?



What the hell was "Middle Land"?
We only know "China" or "Trung quốc" was transcribed from "中国". What the hell "Middle Land"?

I don't know, but you can't find Mongolia and other territories from the map either, that's why I suggest using a "full map" instead of this one in order to avoid unclear factors.

Middle Land is just a direct translation of "中國" from your history books:

"自古夷狄為患中國"
(Since ancient times, barbarians have always been trouble to the Middle Land)
---- Le Thanh Tong

the "中國" here clearly means "Vietnam"


also in Japanese history book:

[中朝事實]

 恒觀蒼海之無窮者,不知其大;常居原野之無畦者,不識其廣。是久而狃也,豈唯海野乎愚。生中華文明之土,未知其美,專嗜外朝之經典,嘐嘐慕其人物。何其放心乎。何其喪志乎。抑好奇乎?將尚異乎?夫中國之水土卓爾於萬邦,而人物精秀于八紘。故神明之洋洋,聖治之緜緜。煥乎文物,赫乎武德,以可比天壤也。今歲冬十有一月,編皇統之實事,令兒童誦焉,不忘其本云爾。
(...Born in the Middle Land the civilization...)

---- Yamaga Soko
 
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I don't know, but you can't find Mongolia and other territories from the map either, that's why I suggest using a "full map" instead of this one in order to avoid unclear factors.

Middle Land is just a direct translation of "中國" from your history books:

"自古夷狄為患中國"
(Since ancient times, barbarians have always been trouble to the Middle Land)
---- Le Thanh Tong

the "中國" here clearly means "Vietnam"

I know you do not know, because it not belong to any province of China.
Do you know why? Because the two archipelagos belong to Vietnam, so you cannot find them belongs to any province of China.
Do you understand?
 
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I know you do not know, because it not belong to any province of China.
Do you know why? Because the two archipelagos belong to Vietnam, so you cannot find them belongs to any province of China.
Do you understand?

or they were just not need to be shown on the "part-of-China" map just like missing the part of Mongolia,
this can be used as a excuse to against your evidence, right?
As an evidence, it has to be all clear to avoid any unclear factor, right?
So why do they use a "trouble-making' map as an evidence instead of using other "full map" have been posted in this thread?
Again, I'm helping you, HELP.
 
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or they were just not need to be shown on the "part-of-China" map just like missing the part of Mongolia,
this can be used as a excuse to against your evidence, right?
As an evidence, it has to be all clear to avoid any unclear factor, right?
So why do they use a "trouble-making' map as an evidence instead of using other "full map" have been posted in this thread?
Again, I'm helping you, HELP.

OK, I'm happy to help you,
Look at photo of the map of China in1904 below, and can you read the letters "Mongolie" at the upper of the map?
But you cannot find the two archipelagos Hoang Sa (Paracels) and Truong Sa (Spratlys), Right?

bandohoan%20chinh-kocoHSTS.jpg


 
Last edited by a moderator:
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OK, I'm happy to help you,
Look at photo of the map of China in1904 below, and can you read the letters "Mongolie" at the upper of the map?
But you cannot find the two archipelagos Hoang Sa (Paracels) and Truong Sa (Spratlys), Right?

Oops, the "whole" Mongolia, my bad.

Look at the map, idiot chinese, two Han chinese character by the left. What does it means 全圖 : Full map: Toàn Đồ .

全圖 = full map
直省全圖 = full map of the middle land of China


Problem?
 
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Oops, the "whole" Mongolia, my bad.



全圖 = full map
直省全圖 = full map of the middle land of China


Problem?



middle land of China: 中原. Do you know where is this land ? :enjoy:
 
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