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16 people on things they couldn't believe about America until they moved here

Affordability is the main issue. America has world class facility in healthcare and nobody is saying healthcare is bad.
What is lacking is a system which will allow poor people to get affordable treatment.

Forget govt. How about coming together as a society and making a contract that all of you will contribute some amount to a common kitty so that if few of you get ill, he will have a chance of a basic level of threatment irrespective of whether he/she can afford it. Rich among you still can spend money for best in class treatment, but poor will get to be treated by cheapest provider(unless they are ready to pay the difference).

Surely such society is more humane than, those where people think 'I am a millionaire so I can fight cancer, let poor die of cancer because he should have thought about it before being poor'
Yes...It is called 'health insurance'. The current system is flawed, but the concept of the single payer system, aka 'socialized medicine', is not without its flaws. There is no shortage of horror stories from Britain and Europe about those flaws.

Health insurance is not health care and this is the confusion deliberately created by those who would wish for socialized medicine in the US. Health care is the broader umbrella that includes insurance, cost for procedures, preventative care, etc. How you live is none of my business and vice versa. It does not matter my wealth or yours. If you live precariously: excessive substance abuse of all kinds, then why is it a moral burden and condemnation upon me about your shortsightedness and cannot afford insurance to pay for when you need treatments? Same about cancer. Everyone know that despite your best intention of living healthfully, the threat of cancer is over everyone regardless of wealth. So it is still your moral duty to yourself to budget to find insurance that will cover for that eventuality. Being poor does not mean you will automatically get cancer and neither does being rich but being foresight enough is the personal moral duty of both rich and poor. Personal, not collective.

As far as the millionaires go...People who have never been to the US have a flawed understanding of a typical American millionaire. I live within dog-walking distance of three millionaires in my neighborhood. Only one of them drive a Merc. The other two drives late model American SUVs. All three have very nice houses, which is understandable since a house is a much more personal item than a car. All three lives on what is called 'horse property' size lots, which is usually one acre, but none of them own horses. They just like the large yard space for their children. Nothing wrong with that. The vast majority of American millionaires are of NET WORTH, not of how much cash on hand they have in the bank, and this is the misconception. A 'net worth' is an estimation or calculated guess of how much something is valued. No difference in principle than what you could find and haggle for at a garage sale. When the US entered the recession, their net worth decreased and the valuation remained relatively static for the last several years. They are no longer millionaires, but their houses remained the same and each could afford to buy new cars, if they wanted to.

Here is what petty dictators do not understand: Appeal to my sense of humanity to pay for others' misfortune -- yes, but coercion into charity -- no.

Forcing me, who is not a millionaire, into a common 'health care' fund is no appeal to my sense of humanity.
 
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Yeah , Adults who see all kensyans as Boogie Man

Hahaha , you really don't know $hit do you? There are several nobel prize winners from the USSR and erstwhile socialist countries like Poland and currently socialist countries like Sweden. Sweden has a much higher standard of living than the US. Commy USSR managed to launch a satellite into space before the US. The most brilliant scientists in Europe came about during communist regimes when there was a huge impetus on imparting physics and math education.
The microwave oven is a CONSUMER device. The mark of a truly progressive and advanced society, in terms of scientific achievements, is not how much theoretical science papers published but about the extent of theoretical science transformed into usable products to make ordinary people's lives better. Was Sputnik a usable product for the average Soviet who constantly had to wait in line to buy days old bread and waxy toilet paper?

It does not matter if the idea of using electromagnetic radiation to excite water molecules into steam came from the Soviet Union or Sweden or Timbuktu. What matter is which country have the necessary social and economic environment that would stimulate risk taking of many kinds to produce a device called 'microwave oven' and reap financial rewards if the risks turned out favorable. That is why the microwave oven could never come out of politically and economically repressive regimes like the commie USSR. So it is YOU who do know sh1t, kid.

You still get an F.

This yet again demonstrates why certain things like education , healthcare etc should never be privatized and as Keynes said , government has to step in to ensure that these services reach the people who need them.
Sure...Then let us get more 'progressive', shall we?

Since what you eat, drink, and marry affects your health, YOU should have no problems with the government telling you what to eat, drink, and marry, correct?

Step away from that soda: Sugary drinks raise cancer risk for women, study finds - NBC News.com
Here’s another reason for ladies to just put down that sugary soda – it raises the risk of endometrial cancer.
Government should step right in and either ban sodas or forbid women from drinking sodas. After all, it is for their own good and for the greater good of the human race.

Endometriosis...

Endometriosis - MayoClinic.com
Endometriosis can cause pain — sometimes severe — especially during your period. Fertility problems also may develop. Fortunately, effective treatments are available.
...Can prevent a woman from having children. If a woman is not foresighted enough to stay away from sodas, the government must step in. It is for the greater good of the health care system.

But again , the concept eludes you because your tiny pussy has already been raped by some gay communists and that has really affected you brain.
Typical juvenile intellect.

You are one of the lucky ones who can afford expensive healthcare and you thus promote your narrow perspective over what's needed for the greater good.
Same old debunked criticisms. The real greater good lies in personal freedoms, rights, and responsibilities. Not sucking at the government's teats.

A typical/average american is a walmart mom earning 15 bucks an hour you , not some guy living in Beverly Hills who can afford a million dollar house.
Wrong. Neither is the typical American. But contrary to popular misconceptions, 15/hr is a livable wage. I did it and so can you. But the difference between you and I is that I strive to earn more than just 15/hr while you would be perfectly happy at whining for government help at 15/hr.
 
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At the end of the day it is the responsibility of each person to look after their own health. In America, the land of the fat, people indulge in all sorts of excess and you can easily see it in the faces of the people who age well before their time.
Its the same here in Australia.

There should be a waiting list for hospital patients where priority is given to people with illness that is not self induced. An obese dole bludger who frequents the hospital for heart problems should relegated down the list while cancer patients/ work injury patients be moved up.

Wrong. Neither is the typical American. But contrary to popular misconceptions, 15/hr is a livable wage. I did it and so can you. But the difference between you and I is that I strive to earn more than just 15/hr while you would be perfectly happy at whining for government help at 15/hr.

15/ per hour is quite decent provided that you get proper hours and long enough shifts. Here in Australia a friend of mine who works for a large supermarket gets 21/ per hour for stacking the shelves but only 4 hours per night 3 times a week on a casual basis. Imagine running a household on that income.

I grew up in relative poverty so if im reduced to 15/ per hour today I could handle it with ease. An Australian family on such a sum would be lining the unemployment office.
 
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My favorite:

I’ve had many long talks with refugees, recent immigrants and international students. Each had a personal perspective (individuals from same town still have unique perceptions), as well as a culturally driven perspective (different countries but similar socioeconomic backgrounds and ideologies). The one thing in common that all of them shared was a tendency to not understand the nature of the friendships/relationships they were making when they first arrived. A lot of hurt feelings and misunderstandings because of the sometimes shallow nature of American social interaction.

Yes, they’d meet with a lot of friendliness and amicable treatment, but there was a bit of cold water splashed in their faces as they assumed it was the beginning of a real friendship, and they’d seek the person out for activities, interaction, etc. A lot of Korean, Japanese, West African, and Middle Eastern folks said the same things: they thought they were making friends but they turned out to be arms-length acquaintances. Several expressed that they started to feel that the initial friendliness was phony or superficial. Fortunately, not all of their relationships went this way, and they often met great new real friends.

Here in this discussion, others have responded that they were surprised that Americans live so far from family. These interpersonal issues may be related: perhaps the depth of relationships aren’t as strong here, and bonds quickly forged are more easily broken. I don’t know.
I do remember a Nigerian friend expounding on this by asking me, “If I woke you up in the middle of the night and asked you to come with me, what would you say?”

“I’d ask what was going on…”

“You see,” he said. “My friends from my village would come with me, and on the way would ask, ‘Ade, where are we going?’”
 
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Yes...It is called 'health insurance'. The current system is flawed, but the concept of the single payer system, aka 'socialized medicine', is not without its flaws. There is no shortage of horror stories from Britain and Europe about those flaws.

Health insurance is not health care and this is the confusion deliberately created by those who would wish for socialized medicine in the US. Health care is the broader umbrella that includes insurance, cost for procedures, preventative care, etc. How you live is none of my business and vice versa. It does not matter my wealth or yours. If you live precariously: excessive substance abuse of all kinds, then why is it a moral burden and condemnation upon me about your shortsightedness and cannot afford insurance to pay for when you need treatments? Same about cancer. Everyone know that despite your best intention of living healthfully, the threat of cancer is over everyone regardless of wealth. So it is still your moral duty to yourself to budget to find insurance that will cover for that eventuality. Being poor does not mean you will automatically get cancer and neither does being rich but being foresight enough is the personal moral duty of both rich and poor. Personal, not collective.

As far as the millionaires go...People who have never been to the US have a flawed understanding of a typical American millionaire. I live within dog-walking distance of three millionaires in my neighborhood. Only one of them drive a Merc. The other two drives late model American SUVs. All three have very nice houses, which is understandable since a house is a much more personal item than a car. All three lives on what is called 'horse property' size lots, which is usually one acre, but none of them own horses. They just like the large yard space for their children. Nothing wrong with that. The vast majority of American millionaires are of NET WORTH, not of how much cash on hand they have in the bank, and this is the misconception. A 'net worth' is an estimation or calculated guess of how much something is valued. No difference in principle than what you could find and haggle for at a garage sale. When the US entered the recession, their net worth decreased and the valuation remained relatively static for the last several years. They are no longer millionaires, but their houses remained the same and each could afford to buy new cars, if they wanted to.

Here is what petty dictators do not understand: Appeal to my sense of humanity to pay for others' misfortune -- yes, but coercion into charity -- no.

Forcing me, who is not a millionaire, into a common 'health care' fund is no appeal to my sense of humanity.

The issue with health insurance is, it does not work. It is against very basis of concept of insurance. Which is why universal health insurance is the only way forward.
You said such a system has flaws, but did not tell me which flaws. Mind you I am not asking universal healthcare.

Now why health insurance does not work. A fundamental principle of insurance is, insured should not have any extra information that can jeopardize the amount of premium.
It works pretty well for life insurance, nobody is sure when dealth will come (insurer might ask about life threatening ilness as it needs that info to figure out risk).

For health insurance, only those tend to take who have probability of falling ill. Which means if they pay 100 dollar as premium, there is high chance that they will take out the insured amount (say 1000 dollar).

As insurance is basically sharing of risk, it jacks up the premium, say to 150 dollar. That makes it unaffordable to some insurers and they exit the policy.
So basically it creates a vicious circle which pushes premium higher and higher. Insurers can reduce it by asking you to give all information about your health, but still they are unable to solve this puzzle.

I did not say a millionair should pay more. Lets say millionair will pay as much as poor. Its not millionair vs poor, rather its healthy vs ill. Its spreading the risk so that predominantly healthy population can care for a few ill.

The case you said (high networth but with income poverty) are the people who are vulnerable to sudden homelessness and poverty if a disease hits hard. Due to issue I told you above, they cant afford to pay insurance premium.
Many of them are pensioners(build up asset over a period of time, asset value goes up and they look rich, but their income is low and ever decreasing), and an insurer will consider them high risk customer. (prohibitively expensive premium).

How is it different from universal healthcare? To start with, it does not tie you with a specific service provider. You can choose your doctor, hospital whatever you want.
It will allow private healthcare providers to compete so there is no beurocracy. The fund can even be managed by a trust(not govt).
 
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When I was smaller, I used to think that American kids were the ones who were living it up. It's only when you meet up with a bunch of them do you realize how deadbeat and uninspired their social life is. In fact, they were the ones who were stunned at our private parties, club memberships and the fact that we could drive cars(not legally, of course).

Americans are obsessed with television to the point of being psychotic. Good luck trying to communicate with the American male if you have never seen Game Of Thrones, Breaking Bad, Sons Of Anarchy, Dexter etc.

Good luck trying to communicate with the American female if you haven't seen Glee, Dancing With The Stars, The New Normal etc.
 
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When I was smaller, I used to think that American kids were the ones who were living it up. It's only when you meet with a bunch of them do you realize how deadbeat and uninspired their lives actually are. In fact, they were the ones who were stunned at our private parties, club memberships and the fact that we could drive cars(not legally, of course).

Americans are obsessed with television to point of being psychotic. Good luck trying to communicate with the American male if you have never seen Game Of Thrones, Breaking Bad, Sons Of Anarchy, Dexter etc.

Good luck trying to communicate with the American female if you haven't seen Glee, Dancing With The Stars, The New Normal etc.

That's not completely true but rather half truths. My inexpensive secondary education which I did not take seriously was still way better and had more substance than what their average universities were dealing with. Where they excelled was with everything other than education. They had edutainment. High-school activites, AV clubs, bands, workshops and most technical bases for making a vibarant community. Our schools and parents are only focused on doctors and engineers. They have no concept of actually looking at their dumb child and honestly say if he won't kill someone during surgery or end up collapsing a roof. Not everyone has brains. Either way quality education is not expensive or out of reach for a middle income family in Pakistan or India, but private schooling is unfathmoed and craved for by the middle class in the states. True story.

About the TV watching thing. I do not know anyone that didn't watch those shows and ends up waiting for the weekend to get to a bar or club and socialize. That's their cycle of life. Week after month.
 
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That's not completely true but rather half truths. My inexpensive secondary education which I did not take seriously was still way better and had more substance than what their average universities were dealing with. Where they excelled was with everything other than education. They had edutainment. High-school activites, AV clubs, bands, workshops and most technical bases for making a vibarant community. Our schools and parents are only focused on doctors and engineers. They have no concept of actually looking at their dumb child and honestly say if he won't kill someone during surgery or end up collapsing a roof. Not everyone has brains. Either way quality education is not expensive or out of reach for a middle income family in Pakistan or India, but private schooling is unfathmoed and craved for by the middle class in the states. True story.

About the TV watching thing. I do not know anyone that didn't watch those shows and ends up waiting for the weekend to get to a bar or club and socialize. That's their cycle of life. Week after month.

I was actually speaking from experience. There were a couple of times when I interacted with Americans kids(when I was myself one), and my cousins who are American citizens, and I wasn't impressed at all by the lives they were leading. Perhaps they failed to give me the complete picture or maybe they were losers back at their school(heheh) but as I mentioned earlier, it was them who were surprised that a minor like me had membership to the Yacht Club. Even as adults, a good part of them say that their school life sucked and they couldn't wait till it was over. In contrast, you will not find an Indian or a Pakistani, regardless of his/her financial background, who hated school.

C'mon, don't tell me that you wait for the weekend to talk about Glee at some drinking hole. Everybody watches television, but to have some show to manifest itself into your every thought all the time? It's just irritating to hear such people speak.
 
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I was actually talking from experience. There were a number of times when I interacted with Americans kids(when I was myself one), and my cousins who are American citizens, and I wasn't impressed at all by the lives they were leading. Perhaps they failed to give me the complete picture or maybe they were losers back at their school(heheh) but as I mentioned earlier, it was them who were surprised that a minor like me had membership to the Yacht Club. Even as adults, a good part of them say that their school life sucked and they couldn't wait till it was over. In contrast, you will not find an Indian or a Pakistani, regardless of his/her financial background, who hated school.

C'mon, don't tell me that you wait for the weekend to talk about Glee at some drinking hole. Everybody watches television, but to have some show to manifest itself into your every thought all the time? It's just irritating to hear such people speak.

Particularly if the show in question is Glee. Such is the torture that one may never see the show but still have to suffer its horrors courtesy repetitive advertisements.
 
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C'mon, don't tell me that you wait for the weekend to talk about Glee at some drinking hole. Everybody watches television, but to have some show to manifest itself into your every thought all the time? It's just irritating to hear such people speak.

I'm not sure what glee is other than it being a musical reality show of some kind. I do watch tv shows. But I don't watch tv in the old sense as sitting in front of one. I know people who are exicited about the odd walking dead or early seasons of breaking bad cause of their meth habits. Since I moved back they have been on downloads or american counter part of tivo ( takes care of your ad problem). Everyone I knew were more interested in getting laid after a tough week working odd jobs while in college. TV shows were seldom brought up.

P.s - I am sure some of my cousins hated high school as well. That was their own faults being socially awkward thanks to their parents trying to mold them the way they wanted. And I am sure eventually it paid off cause of the half million a year they earn.
 
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The issue with health insurance is, it does not work. It is against very basis of concept of insurance. Which is why universal health insurance is the only way forward.
You said such a system has flaws, but did not tell me which flaws. Mind you I am not asking universal healthcare.
If the current health insurance situation in the US does not work, an exaggeration at the least, or have flaws, it is because of government regulations and restrictions, one of them is one cannot buy health insurance from another company in another state. This absurd restriction was lobbied by the insurance companies to prevent state level competition and agreed upon by state level legislators. Then insurance companies locked in that monopoly, or having fewer competitors, by having multiple state licences. Companies that cannot afford to be so licensed remained small, local, and limited in their coverage issues.

Solution: Legislators simply have to refuse to be corrupted by the health insurance industry as a whole. Refusing to enact restrictions would force the marketplace to work out its own shortcomings. At best, state level legislators could mandate a minimum level of coverage in order to do business in their states and let the marketplace and the consumers chose. Competition always bring down costs and improve product quality. It will not happen overnight but it will happen. It always happened.

Now why health insurance does not work. A fundamental principle of insurance is, insured should not have any extra information that can jeopardize the amount of premium.
It works pretty well for life insurance, nobody is sure when dealth will come (insurer might ask about life threatening ilness as it needs that info to figure out risk).
It is actually 'life assurance'. Assurance is about certainty. Insurance is about uncertainty.

Everyone is going to die but not everyone is going to have cancer, a broken arm, or even a sprained ankle. Since everyone is going to definitely die, there is no reason to have life assurance or insurance, for the sake of familiarity. The reason people have life insurance is because the unpredictability of when a person is going to die, leaving the possibility of denying one's family of income, but because death is so final, you do not suffer and is no longer a burden or contributor to society, there is little compelling reason for anyone to have life insurance, least of all a single person like me. Life insurance policies are easier to provide than health insurance.

For health insurance, only those tend to take who have probability of falling ill. Which means if they pay 100 dollar as premium, there is high chance that they will take out the insured amount (say 1000 dollar).

As insurance is basically sharing of risk, it jacks up the premium, say to 150 dollar. That makes it unaffordable to some insurers and they exit the policy.
So basically it creates a vicious circle which pushes premium higher and higher. Insurers can reduce it by asking you to give all information about your health, but still they are unable to solve this puzzle.
First of all...There is no moral mandate to create health insurance. The insurance industry, not just health but auto, home, etc., is essentially a scheme to provide a service as well as making a profit. People saw the high cost of auto or human repairs and came up with the scheme where everyone who voluntarily got involved would share the cost of providing auto or human repairs for those in the circle who need that service. But there are no moral or religious mandates anywhere for society and government to create that scheme.

Second...Once that scheme is created and have members, it is perfectly reasonable to reduce outlays and this where excessive denials by the insurance companies have contributed to the sorry reputation they all share. An insurance scheme is basically the sharing of cost when a risk by a member was not or cannot be avoided. It is perfectly reasonable for a particular circle to query its members as to what they do that may raise their odds of having risks come true.

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I used to skydive, now I do not because of money, not of physical capability. I can get hurt to varying degrees or even die. I can have insurance for either potentiality. It is not immoral for any insurance provider to raise my rate due to my dangerous hobby. After all, who forced me to jump out of a perfectly good aircraft for fun? For war, yes. But for fun? I plan to try paragliding next and a rig is about $4-5k. Again, who forced me to enter this dangerous activity? If I get hurt, why should I pay the same rate as the man who drives below the speed limit, is a vegan, does not smoke, does not drink, does not take any kind of hallucinogenics, and live very plainly?

Health insurance issuers realize that nobody is going to be that boring so they are willing to provide that sharing of costs in the event of a risk coming true by any member, be it a broken leg from skydiving or got cancer due to bad genes, without being too intrusive in everyone's lives. But if we are willing to allow and participate in this kind of scheme, we have to allow those companies to make profits, especially when there are clearly no moral or religious compulsion for them to exist in the first place.

If the company is forced to insure me, a skydiver, a weekend amateur motorcycle racer, an open water diver, a skier, mixed martial arts fighter, smoker, drinker, drug user, prostitute user, and who knows what else, at the same rate as my religious neighbors, that company would be out of business quick. What are you going to do? Force the company to stay in business? And with whose money?

The current health insurance system in the US is flawed, but not broken, just like you are flawed but is still a functioning human being. There are many ways to fix those flaws without getting the government involved at the expense of personal liberties.

I did not say a millionair should pay more. Lets say millionair will pay as much as poor. Its not millionair vs poor, rather its healthy vs ill. Its spreading the risk so that predominantly healthy population can care for a few ill.

The case you said (high networth but with income poverty) are the people who are vulnerable to sudden homelessness and poverty if a disease hits hard. Due to issue I told you above, they cant afford to pay insurance premium.
Many of them are pensioners(build up asset over a period of time, asset value goes up and they look rich, but their income is low and ever decreasing), and an insurer will consider them high risk customer. (prohibitively expensive premium).

How is it different from universal healthcare? To start with, it does not tie you with a specific service provider. You can choose your doctor, hospital whatever you want.
It will allow private healthcare providers to compete so there is no beurocracy. The fund can even be managed by a trust(not govt).
The problem with your premise, as highlighted, is that the 'universal health care' scheme is essentially a monopoly. It does not matter if the fund is managed by the government or not. If there are competition, then it is not 'universal', is it? If you are forced to pay in, then what is the point of competition anyway? Do just like the commie say: government is responsible for your health care.
 
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Particularly if the show in question is Glee. Such is the torture that one may never see the show but still have to suffer its horrors courtesy repetitive advertisements.

Haha. That is only part of the torture. The real headache is how you turn into an outsider when the office gang sits together and discusses episodes. So sooner or later, you will involuntarily be fed nonsensical trivia about the show. Glee is big with the queer crowd so any overt criticism might get you in trouble with them. This is what I get for not considering medical school.

I'm not sure what glee is other than it being a musical reality show of some kind. I do watch tv shows. But I don't watch tv in the old sense as sitting in front of one. I know people who are exicited about the odd walking dead or early seasons of breaking bad cause of their meth habits. Since I moved back they have been on downloads or american counter part of tivo ( takes care of your ad problem). Everyone I knew were more interested in getting laid after a tough week working odd jobs while in college. TV shows were seldom brought up.

P.s - I am sure some of my cousins hated high school as well. That was their own faults being socially awkward thanks to their parents trying to mold them the way they wanted. And I am sure eventually it paid off cause of the half million a year they earn.

I wouldn't have brought it up if it wasn't so prominently on display. We once had an American client who tried to explain something by drawing analogies from the show, Dog the Bounty Hunter. We know of colleagues who have TV buddies back in the States busy Tivo-ing shows so they could see them together in the future. Perhaps this is because they are mostly thirty somethings set in their routines and we are a bunch of twenty somethings trying to figure them out.

Half a mil you say? *sniff* Kaam kya karte hain?

Out here, even the rich kids show up to school for the intention to hit on girls. Either way, I kinda feel funny talking about all this while the rest are discussing Keynesian economics, externalities and medical coverage. :enjoy:
 
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