14 died so far - Nuclear Biological Chemical Damage (NBCD) team investigated

[Dubious]

To be honest performance of NBCD team was not impressive. Navy NBCD teams were there on-site for 2 nights and unable to find the source of contamination. Maybe because it was not actually a nuclear or chemical threat

It was the University of Karachi blood testing of victims that finally identify the hazardous material. Still, it is sad that our authorities could not do anything and people kept dying for 2 days. A very sorry state of affairs.

If you are not looking for the correct cause you arent doing the correct test...There is no machine to pop in blood and you get a full screen of EVERYTHING ....you have to start testing based on what was handled and based on WHAT KIND of attack xyz can cause...it is a lengthy process...And thanks to Bhutto we dont have much labs in SIndh...

simplest of medical examination
Sad

What simple vedic medical exam do you suggest?

Even the "most intelligent of doctors" cancels possibilities 1 by 1..ONLY Vedict doctors have a magic wand that does SIMPLEST of medical examinations! Stop trolling

They clearly werent even looking for the correct source or "allergy"...they were looking for nuclear/ bio/ chemical weaponry!

 

[Amaa'n]

Out of the few experts on Emergency Response we have on forum, i think time to call in @RescueRanger, if he could help us to understand the situation better...........

They clearly werent even looking for the correct source or "allergy"...they were looking for nuclear/ bio/ chemical weaponry!

Someone said it finally

 

[Dubious]

Someone said it finally

Common sense isnt very common on PDF...some people actually believe there is 1 test to determine everything like magic ?!


"it is an arguable action, whether calling in the Military CBRN team was indeed a correct response to this catastrophic incident. I am not sure what kind of Equipment these folks were packing for Biological & Chemical testing as each requires different equipment, may be @RescueRanger sir can elaborate on that.

Toxic substance that was Inhaled by the victims could be in any form (Mist, aerosol, Vapor, Gas, dust, or fumes). Now quantifying each of these requires a different instrument for measuring the concentration of that substance in air. So the question would be did we have the appropriate instrument for conducting the air quality tests? (I doubt)

Furthermore, when the CBRN teams arrived on scene it is possible that the Substance in question was no longer in the air or concentration of that substance was reduced hence it was not determined to be cause of incident.

Merely having the concentration of a substance in air cannot be declared the cause of incident because it also depends on other factors i.e Exposure duration & toxicity of the substance. A substance with low LD50 can cause a fatality with short term exposure while a substance with high LD50 with short term exposure will not do so.

After air sampling by CBRN, Biological monitoring should be done on the corpses that is taking blood samples, condition of the lungs, any other organs effected in the body. What kind of response was triggered by the body was it a Local effect or a Systematic effect,was a specific organ in the body targeted by the substance? what kind of effect it had & what was response from body, sensitizer, irritant, corrosive, acute asthma etc.

It is not a Halwa that you will call in CBRN team and voila problem solved you require extensive lab testing & instrument ....."

 

[RescueRanger]

@Foxtrot Alpha @Dubious thank you very much for tagging me into this post. I deliberately avoided commenting for a number of reasons which I will list below:

1. The culprit being named "soybean dust" due to this report is premature:

2. The CBRNE team being called out to this incident is for a few reasons: Our shipping. ports and private sector have NO HAZMAT: Hazardous Material testing and handling capacity. The only bodies that have any ability to deal with CBRNE: Chemical, Biological, Radiological, Nuclear, and Explosive materials are Pakistan Army, Pakistan Navy and Rescue 1122 has a limited capacity on HAZMAT within it's (Disaster Response Team). Due to National security implications and threats exceeding the training and experience of civilian responders, any possibility of HAMZAT (Pakistan Army is the Lead Agency).

3. Please refer to this photo:

The photo above shows respirators with 66E/EN141 rated filters for "Acid gas". Whilst the unloading of soybeans may have cast dust into the area the large area around the port and the mention of "rotten egg" smell points to a particular gas used in fumigation and a byproduct of mishandling of oil products: H2S: Hydrogen Sulphide

Please refer to this report:

How dangerous is H2S:

The US DOT Hazmat Diamond warning used internationally should be placed on any areas where air testing revels the possibility of H2S such as presence of slurry gas, fumigation and oil processing. What does this symbol mean?

Blue Diamond: Health Hazard
Risk rating 3 = Short exposure could cause serious temporary or residual injury even though prompt medical attention was given

Red Diamond: Flammability
Risk rating 3 = Liquids and solids than can be ignited under almost all ambient conditions

Yellow Diamond: Instability
Risk rating 3 = Capable of detonation or explosive reaction, but requires a strong initiating source or must be heated under confinement before initiation, or reacts explosively with water.

White Diamond: SPECIAL HAZARD (OX = Oxidizer) = Allows chemicals to burn without an air supply

A sample container with Warning diamonds which warn handlers about the contents for example, this container has contents that are highly flammable, corrosive and post a serious inhalation risk.

Due to national security implications I can't comment on the testing kit carried by Pakistan Army only to say it includes a range of devices such as dosimeters, air quality monitors, multi gas detectors, Geiger counters and trace/vapour detectors.

Coming back to this thread, this is a simple case of lack of health and safety, even if soy bean dust is one of the culprits behind the illness faced by these people, why were filter bags not placed on silos when unloading the containers?

Why are dock staff not trained to recognise HAZMAT warnings, why are safety officers not deputed on sites, PPE should be provided to match the risk assessment of each individual activity. Sadly this is just another example of "life is cheap" in Pakistan.

 

[Maarkhoor]

View attachment 607244

It was already out, Ship docked nearby carrying soy powder cause allergic reaction to those who suffer from lung disease and allergic to soy dust.

 

[Amaa'n]

It was already out, Ship docked nearby carrying soy powder cause allergic reaction to those who suffer from lung disease and allergic to soy dust.

read the post by dubious and rescueranger, it will make sense....

@Foxtrot Alpha @Dubious thank you very much for tagging me into this post. I deliberately avoided commenting for a number of reasons which I will list below:

1. The culprit being named "soybean dust" due to this report is premature:
View attachment 608282

2. The CBRNE team being called out to this incident is for a few reasons: Our shipping. ports and private sector have NO HAZMAT: Hazardous Material testing and handling capacity. The only bodies that have any ability to deal with CBRNE: Chemical, Biological, Radiological, Nuclear, and Explosive materials are Pakistan Army, Pakistan Navy and Rescue 1122 has a limited capacity on HAZMAT within it's (Disaster Response Team). Due to National security implications and threats exceeding the training and experience of civilian responders, any possibility of HAMZAT (Pakistan Army is the Lead Agency).

3. Please refer to this photo:
View attachment 608284
The photo above shows respirators with 66E/EN141 rated filters for "Acid gas". Whilst the unloading of soybeans may have cast dust into the area the large area around the port and the mention of "rotten egg" smell points to a particular gas used in fumigation and a byproduct of mishandling of oil products: H2S: Hydrogen Sulphide

Please refer to this report:

View attachment 608291
How dangerous is H2S:

View attachment 608286
The US DOT Hazmat Diamond warning used internationally should be placed on any areas where air testing revels the possibility of H2S such as presence of slurry gas, fumigation and oil processing. What does this symbol mean?

Blue Diamond: Health Hazard
Risk rating 3 = Short exposure could cause serious temporary or residual injury even though prompt medical attention was given

Red Diamond: Flammability
Risk rating 3 = Liquids and solids than can be ignited under almost all ambient conditions

Yellow Diamond: Instability
Risk rating 3 = Capable of detonation or explosive reaction, but requires a strong initiating source or must be heated under confinement before initiation, or reacts explosively with water.

White Diamond: SPECIAL HAZARD (OX = Oxidizer) = Allows chemicals to burn without an air supply
View attachment 608289
A sample container with Warning diamonds which warn handlers about the contents for example, this container has contents that are highly flammable, corrosive and post a serious inhalation risk.

Due to national security implications I can't comment on the testing kit carried by Pakistan Army only to say it includes a range of devices such as dosimeters, air quality monitors, multi gas detectors, Geiger counters and trace/vapour detectors.

Coming back to this thread, this is a simple case of lack of health and safety, even if soy bean dust is one of the culprits behind the illness faced by these people, why were filter bags not placed on silos when unloading the containers?

Why are dock staff not trained to recognise HAZMAT warnings, why are safety officers not deputed on sites, PPE should be provided to match the risk assessment of each individual activity. Sadly this is just another example of "life is cheap" in Pakistan.

so the situation is totally opposite to what dubious has said. Military is the lead agency for HAZMAT.
that is sad indeed means we don't have any civil body to deal with such incidents.
regarding the safety then those fat asses are only at site to sit in office.

 

[TsAr]

Its hard to believe that Soya dust was the cause of deaths, as nothing happened to all the people involved in unloading of soya bean. The shipped was then docked on Port Qasim and all went well.