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Why Arabs lost all its wars to Israel despite outnumbering Israel in weapons and manpower?

After what is clearly stated in these testimonies from both Usraelis and non Usraelis, only the blind or analphabets will still believe that Arabs lose wars, as the riddled with malice title of this thread implies.. Actually the 1973 war has changed the world. one likes it or not
I am very interested in ME war. In the thread, I have gotten a lot of information which never heard before.
I have two questions making me confused:

First, as you said on the above post, Egypt army was forced to move out of the SM coverage and got bombed by Isreali AF heavily.
I wonder why was Egypt army so depend on SAM coverage rather than Air force? Where was Egypt Air Force ?
Was it too weak to protect Egypt ground force ?

Secondly
Israel obviously didn't lose Yom 73 war, given the exchange ratio of casualty and the land she controlled when the cease-fire came up.
If Egypt won the war, who was/were the loser/losers of the war ? Were these other Arabian countries the losers of 73 war?
 
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I am very interested in ME war. In the thread, I have gotten a lot of information which never heard before.
I have two questions making me confused:

First, as you said on the above post, Egypt army was forced to move out of the SM coverage and got bombed by Isreali AF heavily.
I wonder why was Egypt army so depend on SAM coverage rather than Air force? Where was Egypt Air Force ?
Was it too weak to protect Egypt ground force ?

Secondly
Israel obviously didn't lose Yom 73 war, given the exchange ratio of casualty and the land she controlled when the cease-fire came up.
If Egypt won the war, who was/were the loser/losers of the war ? Were these other Arabian countries the losers of 73 war?
There was a brigade ordered to go out of the air defense missile cover, not the Egyptian army!!!
Egypt had only mig-21 to fight with, it is an interceptor used for air defence of the land..

For the rest you should read again post # 477.. If you do not believe all these people there is nothing I can do for you, If you are not convinced and still think that Usrael won the Ramadan war after reading the first hand testimonies, i can't help you in your quest..
 
The answer is simple... very simple. It's not bc the other side was more advance or got better tech...

The answer is that Israel/Jew wanted to win... the other did not.
You may say " WHat BS is that??" Well I let you rethink/reread Iraq/Afghan and so on... and you will see if you are willing to die for something then even with only AKs and Blood, you'll get your win...

Arabs lost they war bc they didn't fought for " a rightful cause" that they were willing to sacrifice themselfs.. every side wanted to be part of smthing, whatever it's power/land/money etc... their cause were meaningless and arrogant... the Jews on the other side... fought to "Live"... and they won.

Best regards.
 
My grandfather told me that the Moroccan forces who joined in the 6 days war were fighting at the frontline.. They had driven the Israelis back at the Golan Heights.. Just to find out they got suddenly surrounded by the Israelis. The Moroccan forces who fought bravely at the front of the battle were sold out to the Jews (Israelis). I still wonder why and how that happened and why the Arabs would sell their brothers out to the Jews...
Also, I think this kind of actions, which happened throughout the past, made the Muslim unity fall apart.. It really is a pity, I would love to see a united muslim ummah with all muslim countries developing relationships based upon mutual trust so that they can cooperate and collaborate. It really is the division between muslims which makes Israel look like they are strong.. But in reality they are nothing.
 
My grandfather told me that the Moroccan forces who joined in the 6 days war were fighting at the frontline.. They had driven the Israelis back at the Golan Heights.. Just to find out they got suddenly surrounded by the Israelis. The Moroccan forces who fought bravely at the front of the battle were sold out to the Jews (Israelis). I still wonder why and how that happened and why the Arabs would sell their brothers out to the Jews...
Also, I think this kind of actions, which happened throughout the past, made the Muslim unity fall apart.. It really is a pity, I would love to see a united muslim ummah with all muslim countries developing relationships based upon mutual trust so that they can cooperate and collaborate. It really is the division between muslims which makes Israel look like they are strong.. But in reality they are nothing.
Your grandfather was right about that, but the Moroccan forces after a valiant fight, found themselves without air cover and were bombarded by the Usraelis.. I won't tell what they did to the Usraelis they have encountered in he Golan heights.. there were just too many horrible stories.. So, in brief there are no Arabs to blame in this instance, they were all bombarded by the New planes and even American pilots in them!!!
 
There was a brigade ordered to go out of the air defense missile cover, not the Egyptian army!!!
Egypt had only mig-21 to fight with, it is an interceptor used for air defence of the land..

For the rest you should read again post # 477.. If you do not believe all these people there is nothing I can do for you, If you are not convinced and still think that Usrael won the Ramadan war after reading the first hand testimonies, i can't help you in your quest..
Mig-21 is a frontline light fighter jet, mig-25 is the interceptor.
But anyway, it does matter what Egypt used the Mig-21 for.
Let's suppose all you said is real that EAF could not provide protection for the ground force and Egypt ground force couldn't go deep because its SAM is unmobilized and only covered limited area.

According to your description and statement, the plan of Egypt army was supposed to be:

First, cross the suez canal and break though the Ber liv line surprisedly

Second, hold on the position under the coverage of SAM and wait for the result of battles between Isreal and Egypt's allies.During the waiting time, Egyptian would consolidate the defense line.

Third, if the allies won the battle, Egypt would march forward and rushed into holy land. That is my guess, cause it didn't happen.

If the Isreali won, Egypt would hold the consolidated defense line and cause the Isreali' enough casualty and show her the strength of Egypt.

Fourth, if there was a stalemate between Egypt and Isreal, Egypt could use it as a leverage to ask for a negotiation with Isreal and get back sinai on the table.

Is this the plan of Egypt army?

If it is, I wonder whether the allies of Egypt was informed the plan.
There go two possibility.

No 1. The allies knew the plan at first. I would say Sadat was so good at diplomacy that could persuade the allies to accept such a unfavorable plan for them and Egypt did win the war by outstanding diplomacy.

No 2, if the other Arab states did not know Egyptian plan, I have no doubt that Egypt won the war by deceiving her allies.

Given that Egypt was forced to send a brigade under the pressure of allies, I prefer that Egypt did not tell her allies.

If my guess is right, there is no doubt that Egypt and Isreal won the 73 war , whilst other Arabian states lost.

That could perfectly explain why in PDF only Egyptian not other Arabian see their states as the winner of 73 war.
 
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My grandfather told me that the Moroccan forces who joined in the 6 days war were fighting at the frontline.. They had driven the Israelis back at the Golan Heights.. Just to find out they got suddenly surrounded by the Israelis. The Moroccan forces who fought bravely at the front of the battle were sold out to the Jews (Israelis). I still wonder why and how that happened and why the Arabs would sell their brothers out to the Jews...
Also, I think this kind of actions, which happened throughout the past, made the Muslim unity fall apart.. It really is a pity, I would love to see a united muslim ummah with all muslim countries developing relationships based upon mutual trust so that they can cooperate and collaborate. It really is the division between muslims which makes Israel look like they are strong.. But in reality they are nothing.
The Golan Heights were never penetrated, hell, when the Syrians pushed against less than 17 Israeli tanks (Later 80 more joined in, this was a surprise attack afterall) the forces that attacked the Golan suffered losses of over 500 vehicles, while the Israelis only lost 60-80.
By the way, if we are "Nothing", how come even when you were united against us, we still won against you?
 
Mig-21 is a frontline light fighter jet, mig-25 is the interceptor.
But anyway, it does matter what Egypt used the Mig-21 for.
Let's suppose all you said is real that EAF could not provide project for the ground force and Egypt ground force couldn't go deep because the SAM is unmobilized and only covered limited area.

According to your description and statement, the plan of Egypt was supposed to be:

First, cross the suez canal and break though the Ber liv line surprisedly

Second, hold on the position under the coverage of SAM and wait for the result of battles between Isreal and Egypt's allies.During the waiting time, Egyptian would consolidate the defense line.

Third, if the allies won the battle, Egypt would march forward and rushed into holy land. That is my guess, cause it didn't happen.
If the Isreali won, Egypt would hold the consolidated defense line and cause the Isreali' enough casualty and show her the strength of Egypt.

Fourth, if there was a stalemate between Egypt and Isreal, Egypt could use it as a leverage to ask for a negotiation with Isreal and get back sinai on the table.

Is this the plan of Egypt ?
If it is, I wonder whether the allies of Egypt was informed the plan.There goes two possibility.

No1. The allies knew the plan at first. I would say Sadat was so good at diplomacy that could persuade the allies to accept such a unfavorable plan for them and Egypt did win the war by outstanding diplomacy.

No 2, if the other Arab states did not Egyptian plan, I have no doubt that Egypt won the war by deceiving her allies.

Given that Egypt was forced to send a brigade under the pressure of allies, I prefer Egypt did not tell her allies.

If my guess is right, there is no doubt that Egypt and Isreal won the 73 war , whilst other Abran states lost.

That could explain why in PDF only Egyptian not other Arabian see their states as the winner of 73 war.

Egypt actually lost the war, if we take into account they wanted to destroy Israel. Unless, if Egyptians only wanted Sinai; then it was a partial victory.

In my opinion in '73 Israel has won the war though paying heavy cost to her reputation.

Arabs never had the upper hand in any conflict with Israel. Israel always had a numerical or/and technological superiority and full support from western countries in every single conflict.

What a load of BS. Both the numerical and technological superiority was with the Arab States. Soviet Union supplied them with the latest of weapons only Israelis dreamt about.
 
Egypt actually lost the war, if we take into account they wanted to destroy Israel. Unless, if Egyptians only wanted Sinai; then it was a partial victory.
I do not want to argue with Egyptian about the aim of the war. It's totally subjective.
Only Sadat knew exactly what he wanted.
It is highly possible that he just wanted to get sinai back in his heart and cheated to his allies that the Egypt would never stop fighting until Isreal was demolished.

Cheating and betrayal always happen in international politics.

Roosevlet was cheated and deceived by Churchill many times during WWII.
 
Mig-21 is a frontline light fighter jet, mig-25 is the interceptor.
But anyway, it does matter what Egypt used the Mig-21 for.
Let's suppose all you said is real that EAF could not provide project for the ground force and Egypt ground force couldn't go deep because the SAM is unmobilized and only covered limited area.

According to your description and statement, the plan of Egypt was supposed to be:

First, cross the suez canal and break though the Ber liv line surprisedly

Second, hold on the position under the coverage of SAM and wait for the result of battles between Isreal and Egypt's allies.During the waiting time, Egyptian would consolidate the defense line.

Third, if the allies won the battle, Egypt would march forward and rushed into holy land. That is my guess, cause it didn't happen.
If the Isreali won, Egypt would hold the consolidated defense line and cause the Isreali' enough casualty and show her the strength of Egypt.

Fourth, if there was a stalemate between Egypt and Isreal, Egypt could use it as a leverage to ask for a negotiation with Isreal and get back sinai on the table.

Is this the plan of Egypt ?
If it is, I wonder whether the allies of Egypt was informed the plan.There goes two possibility.

No1. The allies knew the plan at first. I would say Sadat was so good at diplomacy that could persuade the allies to accept such a unfavorable plan for them and Egypt did win the war by outstanding diplomacy.

No 2, if the other Arab states did not Egyptian plan, I have no doubt that Egypt won the war by deceiving her allies.

Given that Egypt was forced to send a brigade under the pressure of allies, I prefer Egypt did not tell her allies.

If my guess is right, there is no doubt that Egypt and Isreal won the 73 war , whilst other Abran states lost.

That could explain why in PDF only Egyptian not other Arabian see their states as the winner of 73 war.
Well, you got it on most parts, the fact is that the war was conceived to be limited and hence the aim was to force Usrael to negotiate giving back the Sinai and the Golan heights in Syria.. So they were only two Arab states at war with Usrael; Egypt and Syria, while some Arab states sent contingents, some battalions and very few brigades,, that was mostly symbolic of the Arab's solidarity.. by the way the Arab name for the whole operation was called "Spark"..which means already that it was very far from fire or total war..The Egyptians and the Syrians had to use their Mig-21s mostly for air-defence and interceptions, yet as a frontline fighters they were used successfully in some battles, like the Mansora air battle where the Usraelis lost 17 Mirage and F-4s in one day..The Mig-25 was a high altitude reconnaissance and interceptor against Bombers not fighter planes..
The reality of the war was known to most Arab Nations, that Egypt and Syria were going to wage war against an implanted state imposed by Western powers and supported unconditionally by them, So, from the beginning they knew they were going to take on the US's proxy Usrael (that is why I've coined this name, because it is the truth, without the US Usreal is nil in middle East), hence the US weapons from A to Z and the US heavy diplomacy..
Sadat did send all the Russians that were in Egypt back home, because the Arabs, did not want any Russian involvement, and they were fighting for their dignity and land.. but when the US started sending every military gear to Usrael brand new from its own inventory and from the inventory in Europe, along with fighter pilots!!! The Russians decided, on a voluntary base to send some supplies to Egypt and Syria, most of it was paid for by Arabs, like Algeria..A total of $2 billion worth of supply, While Usrael got more than $50 billion worth of American supplies for free, plus mercenaries from all over the world, Jews and non-Jews alike, from the US, Europe, Australia and others..
Sadat knew somehow that this will happen, So after the first very successful week of the war, he, Kissinger and the Russian foreign affairs minister were already open for a ceasefire.. because the main objective of the war was to force Usrael to negotiate, which it has refused many time before the war.. Now Nixon who was not known to like the Jews that much, has turned 180 degrees and ordered the air and sea bridges of supplies to Usrael..even kissinger who was Jewish himself has refused to send supplies because that would just prolong what was already achieved by the Arabs and sealed..But Nixon went ahead for more bloodshed, actually a whole lot of it and with no results for the Usraelis who had to accept the ceasefire after violating 2 a few days before, where they have tried to Encircle the Egyptian 3rd Army, composed of 20 000 man, very well armed and with lines to the Second Army that Sharon and the two other Usraeli generals tries to encircle first, without success, then they have tried to take 2 small cities, Suez and Ismaelia where they have encountered not only the military but also civilians took arms and defeated the Usraelis, after all these failure the Usraeli best Brigades and Units turned South to try to Encircle the Egyptian 3rd Army.. as one can say the Usraeli plans were hectic and desperate to score some victory..it was obvious that they were trapped on the west side of Sinai after the much talked about "gap" that some "Genie" came to tell them about all of a sudden.. Egypt had 80 000 troops in total at war on the East side of the canal, while the Egyptian army had 400 000 professional soldiers and a total of 800 000 armed forces plus reservists.. Usrael had around 50 000 of its best forces, if not the best, all trapped and fighting on the west side of the canal in Sinai, while both the 2nd and 3rd Egyptian armies were holding their own both on the East side of the canal and in some western part of it.. This is the context of the 1973 war in brief till the end, where nothing had changed since the first few days of the war, only more bloodshed for no results for Usrael..the faith of getting back Sinai to Egypt was sealed, and a sacrifice of one brigade to help ease the pressure on the Syrians, or was it the sacrifice to create the trap where 3 Usraeli Armies or brigades (as they call them) composed of 50 000 of their best men were encircled on the Western side of the canal.. Sadat had shown Henry Kissinger two plans to finish them off, or reason them to go back to Usrael alive by accepting a ceasefire...They have accepted and left the Sinai..on Egyptian terms of the ceasefire..

image-jpeg.314767
 
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...the faith of getting back Sinai to Egypt was sealed,
So it is real Sadat did not tell his allies his real aim.
and a sacrifice of one brigade to help ease the pressure on the Syrians, or was it the sacrifice to create the trap where 3 Usraeli Armies or brigades (as they call them)
composed of 80 000 of their best men were encircled on the Western side of the canal..
It is hard to believe that lots of millitias and disorganized army could stop full-supplied and well-armed and organized army supported by suppressing air superiority in a conventional war ,given to the ratio (2:50)of material and armament mutually.
Sadat had shown Henry Kissinger two plans to finish them off, or reason them to go back to Usrael alive by accepting a ceasefire...
If what you said is real, Israel troops were trapped and encircled and all Sadat wanted was sinai.
Why didn't Sadat take the advantage and annihilate the trapped Isreali troops or make them disorganized so that Egypt would be a better position on the table.

I could not understand.
What you said is too unlogical and incomprehensible.
It seems like a decoration which's used by people to describe something embarrassing.
 
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I do not want to argue with Egyptian about the aim of the war. It's totally subjective.
Only Sadat knew exactly what he wanted.
It is highly possible that he just wanted to get sinai back in his heart and cheated to his allies that the Egypt would never stop fighting until Isreal was demolished.

Cheating and betrayal always happen in international politics.

Roosevlet was cheated and deceived by Churchill many times during WWII.

Yeah possibly. Even Sadat wouldn't have thought that his army could fight the Israelis in the open dessert without SAM cover. Or perhaps he was betting on Syrian breakthrough in the Golan and possible capitulation of Israel war machine.

I didn't quiet get what you meant by Roosevelt cheating Churchill?

Well, you got it on most parts, the fact is that the war was conceived to be limited and hence the aim was to force Usrael to negotiate giving back the Sinai and the Golan heights in Syria.. So they were only two Arab states at war with Usrael; Egypt and Syria, while some Arab states sent contingents, some battalions and very few brigades,, that was mostly symbolic of the Arab's solidarity.. by the way the Arab name for the whole operation was called "Spark"..which means already that it was very far from fire or total war..The Egyptians and the Syrians had to use their Mig-21s mostly for air-defence and interceptions, yet as a frontline fighters they used successfully in some battles, like the Mansora air battle where the Usraelis lost 17 Mirage and F-4s in one day..
The reality of the war was known to most Arab Nations, that Egypt an Syria were going to wage war against an implanted state imposed by Western powers and supported unconditionally by them, So, from the beginning they knew they were going to take on the US's proxy Usrael (that is why I've coined this name, because it is the truth, without the US Usreal is nil in middle East), hence the US weapons from A to Z and the US heavy diplomacy..
Sadat did send all the Russian that were in Egypt back home, because the Arabs, did not want any Russian involvement, and they were fighting for their dignity and land.. but when the US started sending every military gear to Usrael brand new from its own inventory and from the inventory in Europe, along with fighter pilots!!! The Russians decided, on a voluntary base to send some supplies to Egypt and Syria, most of it was paid for by Arabs, like Algeria..A total of $2 billion worth of supply, While Usrael got more than $50 billion worth of American supplies for free, plus mercenaries from all over the world, Jews and non-Jews alike, from the US, Europe, Australia and others..
Sadat knew somehow that this will happen, So after the first very successful week of the war, he, Kissinger and the Russian foreign affairs minister were already open for a ceasefire.. because the main objective of the war was to force Usrael to negotiate, which it has refused many time before the war.. Now Nixon who was not known to like the Jews that much, has turned 180 degrees and ordered the air and sea bridges of supplies to Usrael..even kissinger who was Jewish himself has refused to send supplies because that would just prolong what was already achieved by the Arabs and sealed..But Nixon went ahead for more bloodshed, actually a whole lot of it and with no results for the Usraelis who had to accept the ceasefire after violating 2 a few days before, where they have tried to Encircle the Egyptian 3rd Army, composed of 20 000 man, very well armed and with lines to the Second Army that Sharon and the two other Usraeli generals tries to encircle first, without success, then they have tried to take 2 small cities, Suez and Ismaelia where they have encountered not only the military but also civilians took arms and defeated the Usraelis, after all these failure the Usraeli best Brigades and Units turned South to try to Encircle the Egyptian 3rd Army.. as one can say the Usraeli plans were hectic and desperate to score some victory..it was obvious that they were trapped on the west side of Sinai after the much talked about "gap" that some "Genie" came to tell them about all of a sudden.. Egypt had 80 000 troops in total at war on the East side of the canal, while the Egyptian army had 400 000 professional soldiers and a total of 800 000 armed forces plus reservists.. Usrael had around 50 000 of its best forces, if not the best, all trapped and fighting on the west side of the canal in Sinai, while both the 2nd and 3rd Egyptian armies were holding their own both on the East side of the canal and in some western part of it.. This is the context of the 1973 war in brief till the end, where nothing had changed since the first few days of the war, only more bloodshed for no results for Usrael..the faith of getting back Sinai to Egypt was sealed, and a sacrifice of one brigade to help ease the pressure on the Syrians, or was it the sacrifice to create the trap where 3 Usraeli Armies or brigades (as they call them) composed of 50 000 of their best men were encircled on the Western side of the canal.. Sadat had shown Henry Kissinger two plans to finish them off, or reason them to go back to Usrael alive by accepting a ceasefire...They have accepted and left the Sinai..on Egyptian terms of the ceasefire..

image-jpeg.314767

Well Israel fought without US in 1948 and 1956. Both times they were abled to defeat the Arab states.
 
So it is real Sadat did tell his allies his real aim.

It is hard to believe that lots of millitias and disorganized army could stop full-supplied and well-armed and organized army supported by suppressing air superiority in a conventional war ,given to the ratio (2:50)of material and armament mutually.

If what you said is real, Israel troops were trapped and encircled and all Sadat wanted was sinai.
Why didn't Sadat take the advantage and annihilate the trapped Isreali troops or make them disorganized so that Egypt would be a better position on the table.

I could not understand.
What you said is too unlogical and incomprehensible.
It seems like a decoration which's used by people to describe something embarrassing.

Maybe this is beyond your understanding.. or because you are blinded by your own bias against the Arabs, it already shown when after reading all those Usraeli and worldwide testimonies in post# 477 as I have referenced you to before.. And you are still asking unintelligent questions.. RIP for your logic and comprehension!

I think you are confused about the 1973 war and what was going on in Iraq and Syria lately.. this war had two regular armies facing each other, no militias..So you are just bringing your unthoughtful opinion , with no facts, and you did the same with your second remark.. because of your ignorance of Islam that has principles that govern war..Muslims do not kill or massacre their enemies if there is a ceasefire, meaning peace.. If the Usraelis would have continued then that is another matter which was planned for and kissinger was shown 2 different plans for annihilating them..

For any further inquiries, just go back to post # 477 and learn it by heart.. and keep your baseless remarks for yourself, because you will get embarrassed again..

Well Israel fought without US in 1948 and 1956. Both times they were abled to defeat the Arab states.
They had Britain in 1948 (even the declaration of Balfour was made there by the Jewish prime minister of England Disraeli in the 19th century and it was about the creation of Israel), while in 1956 they had Britain and France with them, go read history, and when you get the facts right come back to debate..
 
Maybe this is beyond your understanding.. or because you are blinded by your own bias against the Arabs, it already shown when after reading all those Usraeli and worldwide testimonies in post# 477 as I have referenced you to before.. And you are still asking unintelligent questions.. RIP for your logic and comprehension!

I think you are confused about the 1973 war and what was going on in Iraq and Syria lately.. this war had two regular armies facing each other, no militias..So you are just bringing your unthoughtful opinion , with no facts, and you did the same with your second remark.. because of your ignorance of Islam that has principles that govern war..Muslims do not kill or massacre their enemies if there is a ceasefire, meaning peace.. If the Usraelis would have continued then that is another matter which was planned for and kissinger was shown 2 different plans for annihilating them..

For any further inquiries, just go back to post # 477 and learn it by heart.. and keep your baseless remarks for yourself, because you will get embarrassed again..


They had Britain in 1948 (even the declaration of Balfour was made there by the Jewish prime minister of England Disraeli in the 19th century and it was about the creation of Israel), while in 1956 they had Britain and France with them, go read history, and when you get the facts right come back to debate..
Mate, we won, the fact that we exist means we won let alone the number of casualties in our side and the number of casualties in the Arab side.
 
Maybe this is beyond your understanding.. or because you are blinded by your own bias against the Arabs, it already shown when after reading all those Usraeli and worldwide testimonies in post# 477 as I have referenced you to before.. And you are still asking unintelligent questions.. RIP for your logic and comprehension!
I think you are confused about the 1973 war and what was going on in Iraq and Syria lately.. this war had two regular armies facing each other, no militias..So you are just bringing your unthoughtful opinion , with no facts, and you did the same with your second remark.. because of your ignorance of Islam that has principles that govern war..Muslims do not kill or massacre their enemies if there is a ceasefire, meaning peace..

Cease-fire does matter. But Egyptian army could annihilate them before the ceasefire. Or Egypt could not agree on a ceasefire until the trapped Isreali troops were smashed.
I think it is not a violation to a Islam.
Cease-fire would only be available under the situation that both sides agree.
Why Sadat gave up the advantage on the battlefield as you said and wanted a ceasefire which was not implemented strictly by Isreal ?

If the Usraelis would have continued then that is another matter which was planned for and kissinger was shown 2 different plans for annihilating them..

For any further inquiries, just go back to post # 477 and learn it by heart.. and keep your baseless remarks for yourself, because you will get embarrassed again..
I have no bias to Arabs. I am just confused why only Egyptian see them as the winner and other Arabian do think so.
It is a little arrogant to think Egyptian could represent all Arabian.

And I do not deny that Egypt is the winner , but Arabian obviously is not.
 
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