Zia v.s Benazir : Who served the Talibans better?

[somebozo]

As the New York Times reveals in a recent article, “How Bhutto won Washington,” Benazir Bhutto’s deal-making with the Americans has a long history.2 She had decided quite early that she would return her party to power by trolling the corridors of power in Washington.

In the words of her friend from Oxford days, Peter Galbraith, who was on the staff of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee at the time, Benazir Bhutto first began her campaign in Washington in the spring of 1984. She was on a mission to persuade the Reagan administration that “she would much better serve American interest in Afghanistan than Zia.”” Under the tutelage of Galbraith and his friend, Mark Siegel formerly executive director of the Democratic National Convention she cultivated the friendship of important power brokers in Washington.

These Washington contacts paid off handsomely. In the parliamentary elections of November 1988 Benazir Bhutto’s party gained only a plurality of seats. Since Pakistan’s military establishment looked upon her with considerable distrust, they could easily have pulled strings to deny her the right to form the government. US pressure, however, persuaded Ghulam Ishaq Khan, the President at the time, to invite Benazir Bhutto to form the government.

Benazir Bhutto never gave up on this winning strategy. As the NYT writes, “she kept up her visits to Washington, usually several a year.” She continued to cultivate friends amongst the Washington elite, including the Congress and the media. In the first six months of 2007 alone, Benazir Bhutto spent $250,000 in lobbying fees to gain access to Washington insiders. (That's tax payer money wasted)

http://www.islamicity.org/3230/benazir-bhutto-a-pakistani-tragedy/

 

[HAIDER]

As the New York Times reveals in a recent article, “How Bhutto won Washington,” Benazir Bhutto’s deal-making with the Americans has a long history.2 She had decided quite early that she would return her party to power by trolling the corridors of power in Washington.

In the words of her friend from Oxford days, Peter Galbraith, who was on the staff of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee at the time, Benazir Bhutto first began her campaign in Washington in the spring of 1984. She was on a mission to persuade the Reagan administration that “she would much better serve American interest in Afghanistan than Zia.”” Under the tutelage of Galbraith and his friend, Mark Siegel formerly executive director of the Democratic National Convention she cultivated the friendship of important power brokers in Washington.

These Washington contacts paid off handsomely. In the parliamentary elections of November 1988 Benazir Bhutto’s party gained only a plurality of seats. Since Pakistan’s military establishment looked upon her with considerable distrust, they could easily have pulled strings to deny her the right to form the government. US pressure, however, persuaded Ghulam Ishaq Khan, the President at the time, to invite Benazir Bhutto to form the government.

Benazir Bhutto never gave up on this winning strategy. As the NYT writes, “she kept up her visits to Washington, usually several a year.” She continued to cultivate friends amongst the Washington elite, including the Congress and the media. In the first six months of 2007 alone, Benazir Bhutto spent $250,000 in lobbying fees to gain access to Washington insiders. (That's tax payer money wasted)

http://www.islamicity.org/3230/benazir-bhutto-a-pakistani-tragedy/

Basically Gen Aslam Baig behind the scene . Much smarter then Zia. Gen Asalam Baig was chief security adviser with exceptional experience and good connection during and after Afghan war.

 

[Hassan Guy]

Thats a close call. Hard to say.

 

[somebozo]

Basically Gen Aslam Baig behind the scene . Much smarter then Zia. Gen Asalam Baig was chief security adviser with exceptional experience and good connection during and after Afghan war.

Beg was pretty much an incompetent moron...look at his dismayal assessment...he wasn't in touch with reality...

One of the notable events as a stint as a chief of army staff during the end of Cold war took place in 1990, when Iraq invadedKuwait amidst political tensions between two Arab countries. Beg fully endorsed the United States-led military campaign against Iraq. In a briefing given to Prime Minister Benazir Bhutto and President Ghulam Ishaq Khan, Beg maintained the assessment that once the ground battle with Iraqi Army was joined, the Iraqi Army would comprehensively defeat and repel the American Army.[36]

Thats a close call. Hard to say.

Anthony Davis wrote,” Bhutto’s eldest son, saw himself as political heir. But he will probably be remembered less as the politician he sought to become and more as the man who once led a terrorist group dedicated to overthrowing Zia’s military dictatorship. Murtaza’s death all but guaranteed that: he died in 1996 in a gun battle with police outside his Karachi home. Because of Pakistani press censorship during the martial law years from 1977 to 1985 – and Murtaza’s understandable reluctance to discuss his terrorist past – little was known of the activities of the Al-Zulfiqar group he set up in Kabul in 1979. Until now, that is. Raja Anwar gives a fascinating insider’s view of Murtaza’s career in The Terrorist Prince (Verso Books, New York, 241 pages, $25).Superbly translated by Khalid Hasan. The Kabul-based outfit is first presented as the armed wing of his father’s Pakistan People’s Party. As Al-Zulfiqar, it springs to international prominence with the 1981 hijacking of a (PIA) Pakistani airliner en route to Kabul.”

Mr Davis states that, “(Alzuifqar) attempted to bring down Zia’s jet with a surface-to-air missile in 1982 is bungled because the would-be assassin has never used the weapon before. It is only when Al-Zulfiqar relocates to India later that year that the recruits benefit from some real training – courtesy of Indian’s external intelligence agency (RAW). In 1984 kidnapping of foreign diplomats at a Canadian National Day celebration at a Vienna hotel – turns into dark comedy. The terrorists arrive to discover there is no celebration. True to form, Murtaza is not among them – he had left for the Riviera. The team wanders the streets taking snapshots and drinking beer until they are finally arrested by Austrian police on suspicion of drug smuggling. Murtaza gets a payback of sorts. On his return to Pakistan in 1993, he is arrested and jailed for about half a year on murder and sedition charges.”

 

[HAIDER]

Beg was pretty much an incompetent moron...look at his dismayal assessment...he wasn't in touch with reality...

One of the notable events as a stint as a chief of army staff during the end of Cold war took place in 1990, when Iraq invadedKuwait amidst political tensions between two Arab countries. Beg fully endorsed the United States-led military campaign against Iraq. In a briefing given to Prime Minister Benazir Bhutto and President Ghulam Ishaq Khan, Beg maintained the assessment that once the ground battle with Iraqi Army was joined, the Iraqi Army would comprehensively defeat and repel the American Army.[36]



Anthony Davis wrote,” Bhutto’s eldest son, saw himself as political heir. But he will probably be remembered less as the politician he sought to become and more as the man who once led a terrorist group dedicated to overthrowing Zia’s military dictatorship. Murtaza’s death all but guaranteed that: he died in 1996 in a gun battle with police outside his Karachi home. Because of Pakistani press censorship during the martial law years from 1977 to 1985 – and Murtaza’s understandable reluctance to discuss his terrorist past – little was known of the activities of the Al-Zulfiqar group he set up in Kabul in 1979. Until now, that is. Raja Anwar gives a fascinating insider’s view of Murtaza’s career in The Terrorist Prince (Verso Books, New York, 241 pages, $25).Superbly translated by Khalid Hasan. The Kabul-based outfit is first presented as the armed wing of his father’s Pakistan People’s Party. As Al-Zulfiqar, it springs to international prominence with the 1981 hijacking of a (PIA) Pakistani airliner en route to Kabul.”

Mr Davis states that, “(Alzuifqar) attempted to bring down Zia’s jet with a surface-to-air missile in 1982 is bungled because the would-be assassin has never used the weapon before. It is only when Al-Zulfiqar relocates to India later that year that the recruits benefit from some real training – courtesy of Indian’s external intelligence agency (RAW). In 1984 kidnapping of foreign diplomats at a Canadian National Day celebration at a Vienna hotel – turns into dark comedy. The terrorists arrive to discover there is no celebration. True to form, Murtaza is not among them – he had left for the Riviera. The team wanders the streets taking snapshots and drinking beer until they are finally arrested by Austrian police on suspicion of drug smuggling. Murtaza gets a payback of sorts. On his return to Pakistan in 1993, he is arrested and jailed for about half a year on murder and sedition charges.”

Well, he nicely said good bye to C130 carrying all first Afghan war masterminds and took a private Falcon and back to GHQ.
During Beg time hundreds of Iraqi cadets pass out from Pak academy and he was expecting some action..... but........... you know the result ...a clean sweep by NATO.

 

[Silverblaze]

Benazir as her father was a very power hungry woman thought she had a right to rule Pakistan. She was prepared to do whatever was necessary! Her power hungry father was not pro american but she was the biggest US....

Zia was equally power hungry - brought the most corrupt business mafia in politics just to stay in power along with corrupt molvies. He was also a staunch US lackey as the highest aid given to Pakistan was during his tenure.

Both benazir and zia used the wahabi/salafi ideology to their advantage. benazir wanted to remain in power while zia wanted to crush his opponents by promoting mullahism. Mullahs were given blank checks to do what they liked during zia rule.

These people were not reformers and just wanted to stay in power. Their mureeds will be miffed of course but this is what it is. Whatever good happened during their rules was a gift from God.

 

[somebozo]

Well, he nicely said good bye to C130 carrying all first Afghan war masterminds and took a private Falcon and back to GHQ.
During Beg time hundreds of Iraqi cadets pass out from Pak academy and he was expecting some action..... but........... you know the result ...a clean sweep by NATO.

ISIS is run by Ex-Saddam era officers...speaks something about the kind of training imparted on them by Beg administration...surely there is a lot of action going on in Iraq right now..perhaps this is the kind of action he anticipated..

 

[HAIDER]

ISIS is run by Ex-Saddam era officers...speaks something about the kind of training imparted on them by Beg administration...surely there is a lot of action going on in Iraq right now..perhaps this is the kind of action he anticipated..

Honestly , telling you and its not biased opinion , majority arabs only good for terrorist attacks , when enemy is sleeping, they are not capable of any type of conventional war. May be you know when Pak army freed a part of KSA land occupied by Saddam during Iraq invasion and later all GCC news outlet gave credit to KSA army. We have eye witness account of this operation and it made PA boys upset.

 

[somebozo]

Benazir as her father was a very power hungry woman thought she had a right to rule Pakistan. She was prepared to do whatever was necessary! Her power hungry father was not pro american but she was the biggest US....

Bhutto was a psychopath..and most likely his daughter too....and for Bhutto not being American stooge!

ISLAMABAD: Zulfikar Ali Bhutto had “volunteered to spy for the USA on all UN delegations” during his meeting with US Secretary of State Christian Hutter in the ‘60s. This startling disclosure has been made in Field Marshal Ayub Khan’s Diaries, which are being launched in book form on May 4.

Zia was equally power hungry - brought the most corrupt business mafia in politics just to stay in power along with corrupt molvies. He was also a staunch US lackey as the highest aid given to Pakistan was during his tenure.

Zia was a by product of Bhutto terrorist mentality...and all in all..Zia was much more calculated man and despite his all hard line stand..he has the capability to keep mullah reined in...Bhutto on other hand..would have clearly turned the country into Taliban emirate...

Both benazir and zia used the wahabi/salafi ideology to their advantage. benazir wanted to remain in power while zia wanted to crush his opponents by promoting mullahism. Mullahs were given blank checks to do what they liked during zia rule.

Benazir had every opportunity to reverse the Zia'fication of country yet she choose to tread on the same path of mullahism..and this performance alone makes her a lower scum than Zia...and lets not forget her entire family involvement in terrorism..the Al Zulfikar which was run from Afghanistan and later India...

These people were not reformers and just wanted to stay in power. Their mureeds will be miffed of course but this is what it is. Whatever good happened during their rules was a gift from God.

And they still do..Benazir would have moped the white house with her hair to win the Pakistani election...they belive they have god given right to rule..and their sick mentality is show cased in their rule..but again...Bhutto only came here as a migrant and we allowed him to rise into national politics out of ummah chummah....and so did sharif, altaf and much of the low scum followers of moododi..!

Honestly , telling you and its not biased opinion , majority arabs only good for terrorist attacks , when enemy is sleeping, they are not capable of any type of conventional war. May be you know when Pak army freed a part of KSA land occupied by Saddam during Iraq invasion and later all GCC news outlet gave credit to KSA army. We have eye witness account of this operation and it made PA boys upset.

You are absolutely right..having read the accounts of Arab and Islamic wars...much of them were nothing but terrorist attacks, loot, plunder and genocide..Arabs never fought by conventional rules..but we have turned them into text book heros and great liberators..Whose fault is it??

Mohamed bin Qasim attacked sindh eight times..seven times he could not get by..playing by rules..eight time he decided to attack women..forcing the ruler to come down in defense..and then killed him! Arabs never came to sindh for some divine purpose..they came to loot and plunder...the Arab history glorifies this naked fact...how wealthy they became by looting Sindh!

 

[Imran Khan]

both were worse for pakistan equally

 

[Silverblaze]

Bhutto was a psychopath..and most likely his daughter too....

Zia was a by product of Bhutto terrorist mentality...and all in all..Zia was much more calculated man and despite his all hard line stand..he has the capability to keep mullah reined in...Bhutto on other hand..would have clearly turned the country into Taliban emirate...

Humbly disagree with the bold one. During pres zia's rule of 11 years the longest in Pak history deobandis despite being in minority had more seminaries. He declared open jihad on an issue which should have been kept clandestine (afghan war).

Benazir had every opportunity to reverse the Zia'fication of country yet she choose to tread on the same path of mullahism..and this performance alone makes her a lower scum than Zia...and lets not forget her entire family involvement in terrorism..the Al Zulfikar which was run from Afghanistan and later India...

Dont waste your time on benazir. I wish she was alive so she could be exposed her death made her a hero - very sad. She just wanted power and some suggest she even wanted to compromise with zia! go figure!

And they still do..Benazir would have moped the white house with her hair to win the Pakistani election...they belive they have god given right to rule..and their sick mentality is show cased in their rule..but again...Bhutto only came here as a migrant and we allowed him to rise into national politics out of ummah chummah....and so did sharif, altaf and much of the low scum followers of moododi..!

Who hasn't! Benazir was just racist and power hungry. Zia was trained in Leavenworth and his services in black september were the reason why prince bhutto made him army chief. then zia left us with his puppy nawaz.
These people run pakistan like a personal ranch. When benazir ir bhutto are forced upon as demigods and zia as a peer - this is where its plain fascism.

Mohamed bin Qasim attacked sindh eight times..seven times he could not get by..playing by rules..eight time he decided to attack women..forcing the ruler to come down in defense..and then killed him! Arabs never came to sindh for some divine purpose..they came to loot and plunder...the Arab history glorifies this naked fact...how wealthy they became by looting Sindh!

Thats because of our hatred for hinduism. I think a decent approach should have been de linking with arabs and making it clear that Pakistan is are non arabs like indonesians and persians and turks who accepted islam just like them and maintained their culture.

 

[somebozo]

Humbly disagree with the bold one. During pres zia's rule of 11 years the longest in Pak history deobandis despite being in minority had more seminaries. He declared open jihad on an issue which should have been kept clandestine (afghan war).

Given the Bhutto appeasement of mullahs, his policies to declare ahmedis kafir, ban alcohol and clubs, it was only expected that deobandis and jehadis will soon emerge as the fifth coloum of Pakistani politics..and any subsequent government wether millitary or civilian would continue to appease them..but will pick their favourite sect..in Zia case they happen to be deobandi! But Zia cannot be blamed as fore runner of Islam in Pakistani politics..it was Bhutto who turned it "ISlamic Republic of ....."

 

[Silverblaze]

Given the Bhutto appeasement of mullahs, his policies to declare ahmedis kafir, ban alcohol and clubs, it was only expected that deobandis and jehadis will soon emerge as the fifth coloum of Pakistani politics..and any subsequent government wether millitary or civilian would continue to appease them..but will pick their favourite sect..in Zia case they happen to be deobandi! But Zia cannot be blamed as fore runner of Islam in Pakistani politics..it was Bhutto who turned it "ISlamic Republic of ....."

True! Bhutto wanted the conservative vote bank. The original sin was committed by bhutto. This is the problem - he tried to be a hero and not a leader who reformed like Lee Kwan Yeu or Mahatir Muhammad. So arrogant was this bhutto that he once said that if he was ever removed from power himalayas will cry. IMO his hanging was unjust and he did some good things too as did Zia. (u can disgaree), But bhutto destroyed the economy which gave mullahs another chance.

Zia also played the same card much better. He turned it into a veritable theocracy with a corrupt system at the bottom. Zia did a great job in completing the nuke prog but destroyed the political culture by forging an alliance between corrupt businessmen and molvies and allied with US resulting in economic growth. Zia was also arrogant when he said he will tear up the constitution.

Zia or bhutto and benazir all did incredible harm to pakistan because the goal was to rule not reform like Mahatir or Lee or even Ayub for that matter.

 

[somebozo]

True! Bhutto wanted the conservative vote bank. The original sin was committed by bhutto. This is the problem - he tried to be a hero and not a leader who reformed like Lee Kwan Yeu or Mahatir Muhammad. So arrogant was this bhutto that he once said that if he was ever removed from power himalayas will cry. IMO his hanging was unjust and he did some good things too as did Zia. (u can disgaree), But bhutto destroyed the economy which gave mullahs another chance.

Zia also played the same card much better. He turned it into a veritable theocracy with a corrupt system at the bottom. Zia did a great job in completing the nuke prog but destroyed the political culture by forging an alliance between corrupt businessmen and molvies and allied with US resulting in economic growth. Zia was also arrogant when he said he will tear up the constitution.

Zia or bhutto and benazir all did incredible harm to pakistan because the goal was to rule not reform like Mahatir or Lee or even Ayub for that matter.

They are all cut from the same cloth but look at the time line..without the arrogance of bhutto..there would be no Zia..also Bhutto publicized Pakistani nuclear ambition and the worst..propelled it to proliferation...Zia alliance with Americans was good..but Bhutto allaince with Arabs in the name of Islamic socialism was suicidal..all those leaders who presided over this sick socialist cult..have their countries torn up by Alqaida and ISIS...Bhutto destroyed the industry and industrial class..we inherited much of this class as the British legacy..it takes several generations to develop industrial..and Bhutto just banished them over night...the power and economic vacuum created continues to haunt us today...artificial redistribution of resources in the hands of undeserving...creates population crisis..as people who have it too easy will be busy reproducing..not being able to instill any values of hard work and money management into the next generation..creating chaos and terror when the same easy living cannot be made..that is why socialism is a suicidal spiral to infinity...and it will always be!

In the end we are responsible because we propelled this small time son of Junagarh clerk into high position of politics..we self imposed him as the God upon ourselves...and just look at what him and his offspring did to us..they have god given entitlement to power in Pakistan and have resorted to every means for it...Murtaza operated Al Zulfikar terrorist organisation from Afghanistan and later from India...frankly speaking i happen to know a lot of these former lanlords jageerdars class who migrated from India..they dont have any values of humanity..they treated their pesants like animal and they hold the same view towards Pakistani citizens..to get a show of this slavery, visit garhi khuda baksh any day!