A muslim man denied German citizenship for refusing to shake woman's hand

[Iltutmish]

Once a person is born in the country and holds these views- that is different.

That’s an arbitrary rule. There are many foreigners born in Germany without German citizenship, would it be okay for them not to shake hands with women? See either you have personal freedom or you don’t. And in this case they don’t want him because he is Muslim.

 

[Ghost Hobbit]

Only some are only applicable to German citizens but personal freedom is considered a HUMAN right here.

So should Pakistan be allowed to deport its Hindu population and tear down all the Hindu temples because they don’t fit in? Should Pakistan Strip them of their citizenship? Their religion, customs and so on are totally alien to us, so why should Pakistan tolerate them?

Again...we're talking about people seeking citizenship, not someone born there. A person seeking citizzenship should align to both the values and social modes of the country they're approacing. Surely Saudi won't give citizenship to any woman who belives it's her essential right to walk around in a bikini in the Saudi beaches.

That’s an arbitrary rule. There are many foreigners born in Germany without German citizenship, would it be okay for them not to shake hands with women? See either you have personal freedom or you don’t. And in this case they don’t want him because he is Muslim.

what's arbitrary about it? If foreigners who are not german citizens indulge in behavior that people consider a nuisance, the state has the right to deport them. You can't do that with a citizen. Once a citizen he is one of the people influencing the values of the society.

 

[YeBeWarned]

Kinda reminded me of this iconic scene from one of my Favorite movie ..

 

[W.11]

Why even go to a country which expects certain things in civil life?

expects what? a Nazi salute?

regards

 

[YeBeWarned]

Good, don’t come to Europe if everything here is unacceptable to you. Stay wherever you are or wherever suits your sensibilities.

There is nothing wrong nor extremist angle in refusing to shake ones hand, there can be various reasons not to do so but if someone wants to respect his traditions then why force him into or make him suffer the consequences ? Tell me if there is a clause in German Immigration form that he/she has to shake hands with opposite gender ? Living in West with respecting their law doesn't mean one has to abandoned his own culture , it feels like you are one of those people who went to UK and in a couple of years comes back to Pakistan and refused to be called Pakistani , or eat Oily food , or say things like , OMG how you guys live in so much dusty environment ?

 

[Iltutmish]

what's arbitrary about it? If foreigners who are not german citizens indulge in behavior that people consider a nuisance, the state has the right to deport them. You can't do that with a citizen. Once a citizen he is one of the people influencing the values of the society.

1. he is a doctor, a valuable member of society, not a nuisance.
2. he has personal freedom guaranteed by the German constitution
3. it’s arbitrary because it’s targets a minority! If he had said that he is afraid of getting sick from to much handshaking they wouldn’t do anything.
4. I know how Germany naturalizes people. It’s kinda arbitrary, I knew a guy convicted of robbery and domestic violence who became German citizen later in life working fast food. And there are many cases like that. And a doctor is rejected?

If the official likes your story you are welcome, if he has a (personal) problem with you, then not. That’s arbitrary!

 

[YeBeWarned]

He knew what he had


Why even go to a country which expects certain things in civil life?

there are many Muslim male and female athlete who refused to shake hands after their win with the person giving them medal or award, they sign up for sports not to shake hands . Civility dictates a lot of things hand shake is very low on the list, I have no problem with shaking hands with opposite gender but if someone refuses to do so then i wont make them suffer the consequences for that, if that person is qualified and good human being than he should be given a chance to live his life in where ever he wants to ..

 

[zectech]

Orthodox jews are much more bigoted against women, deport them back to Germany were they came from.

 

[Dark1]

Either you fit into the culture of a country or you go there and live in your little ghettos , complaining about the xenophobic original inhabitants.
Cant expect them to bend over backward to accommodate your beliefs.
Unfortunately in our part of the world this is commonplace. Like helmets were made compulsory in Delhi a few decades back but the sikhs obviously were exempted due to their pagris. Unfortunately even their women demanded exception to the helmet rule for religious reasons. And the government to appease them exempted all women riders in delhi from helmets. How many women deaths were caused by this appeasement, since in India women riding 2 wheelers is commonplace ?
But now With the advent of superbikes in india in the last decades , many sikh youngsters voluntarily wear helmets for safety reasons.
But we are a religious and unscientific society. The west is more logic and equal rights based We shouldn't expect them to change to suit our ancient beliefs.

 

[waz]

there are many Muslim male and female athlete who refused to shake hands after their win with the person giving them medal or award, they sign up for sports not to shake hands . Civility dictates a lot of things hand shake is very low on the list, I have no problem with shaking hands with opposite gender but if someone refuses to do so then i wont make them suffer the consequences for that, if that person is qualified and good human being than he should be given a chance to live his life in where ever he wants to ..

That's fine and it's personal choice, but NOT if you are applying to become a citizen of a state.

 

[Iltutmish]

Either you fit into the culture of a country or you go there and live in your little ghettos , complaining about the xenophobic original inhabitants.

If nobody is harmed, why do you care?

Cant expect them to bend over backward to accommodate your beliefs.

Personal choices are personal choices and if they don’t harm anyone everybody is good to what ever he likes. They don’t have to bend over!

Unfortunately in our part of the world this is commonplace. Like helmets were made compulsory in Delhi a few decades back but the sikhs obviously were exempted due to their pagris. Unfortunately even their women demanded exception to the helmet rule for religious reasons.

There is a meme: if he dies, he dies. Why should the state interfere in this regard. In Delaware there is no helmet Mandate because people think it’s too invasive!

And the government to appease them exempted all women riders in delhi from helmets. How many women deaths were caused by this appeasement, since in India women riding 2 wheelers is commonplace ?

Life is a risk itself. If someone doesn’t wear a helmet so it’s his own problem.

But now With the advent of superbikes in india in the last decades , many sikh youngsters voluntarily wear helmets for safety reasons.

Good.

But we are a religious and unscientific society. The west is more logic and equal rights based We shouldn't expect them to change to suit our ancient beliefs.

Seriously?

 

[waz]

expects what? a Nazi salute?

regards

So all Germans are Nazis now?
Hilariously you don't understand the irony of what you just wrote, considering you're on here talking about someone's 'rights'.

 

[W.11]

So all Germans are Nazis now?
Hilariously you don't understand the irony of what you just wrote, considering you're on here talking about someone's 'rights'.

the irony is in your posts.

regards

 

[YeBeWarned]

That's fine and it's personal choice, but NOT if you are applying to become a citizen of a state.

Is that a law ? is there a clause in German immigration form that if you are coming here you have to shake hands with Females ? its a choice one can refuse to do if he wants too , by refusing to shake hands he did not break any law nor shown any disrespect towards a lady . Specially in this age, since Metoo movement , girls can lie about a sexual assault or rape even if the man just hand shake them . I saw a video from Wall street where a office guy was telling the interviewer that since metoo movement employee are scared to even shake hands with their female co-workers .

 

[zectech]

Can we talk about occupied Palestine for a while. There are crazy jews who don't want the native Palestinians living in Palestine. There are some liberal jews who don't care if Arabs in Gaza are in Tel Aviv. Deport the crazy jews who are for shooting Christian and Muslim and other Arabs for getting too close to their concentration camp fence in Gaza. Deport those jews back to Europe. Let the jews who want to live in peace be able to live in Palestine, as many who want to live there with their literal next door neighbors - the Arabs. And jews who refuse to shake hands with Muslims in anywhere in Palestine (including "Isreal"), force those jews back to Europe where they came from. Bunch of bigots. Let them go back to being shop keepers in Germany and France.