A Homeland for Indian Muslims

[padamchen]

And what of the war that is being waged on Muslims? The Christians are next on the list. You already know about the attacks on liberal Hindus. What exactly should we wait for? To have our houses raided and to be jailed, like those accused of inciting riots against the Marathas, when the Marathas themselves attacked the Mahars?

What war is there with Pakistan? The only war - the only casualties, the only POWs - are existing citizens of the country. What will you do to ensure their security? If you do not ensure their security, what are you proposing? That they all push their chins up for the blade to pass more easily?

Of course that's what I suggest.

What you suggest is sedition and collusion with the enemy.

Treason.

 

[Joe Shearer]

Of course that's what I suggest.

What you suggest is sedition and collusion with the enemy.

Treason.

What? Surrender to a pogrom? And what sedition are you talking about? What collusion with the enemy? Do you want me to take you through events in a time-line?

Of course that's what I suggest.

What you suggest is sedition and collusion with the enemy.

Treason.

So we wait to be raided, imprisoned and killed, and that is all right? Are you serious?

 

[padamchen]

There's a variety of opinions in Pakistan with respect to Indian Muslims. You're going to see the predominantly nationalistic (from Pakistan's perspective) view on this forum, where Indian Muslims are going to be 'generalized' & judged based on the perceptions created by the actions/words of what we refer to as 'Sarkari Muslims' in India.

More broadly, Pakistanis that care about the Kashmir cause see India's intransigence on resolving the dispute, it's military occupation & the violence there in very clear black and white terms, and they see the lack of visible public support from Indian Muslims (especially the sarkari ones) for a clear black and white moral issue, as damning. It's not so much about being deceptive or manipulative, but a sense of betrayal. What @xeuss said about many Jews in the US supporting Palestine and opposing Israeli policies - Pakistanis tend to have the same expectations from Indian Muslims (and in fact Muslims globally) about the Jammu & Kashmir dispute.

So, unfortunately, it is the Indian Muslims that seem to catch flak from both sides. For a community pushed to prove their loyalty just because they're Muslims in a predominantly Hindu India struggling with it's 'historical' sense of shame and insecurity over being conquered & ruled by 'Muslims', I understand how opposition to India's policies on J&K is a bridge too far.

This mess in inescapable.

And stems from a botched up Partition.

 

[SIPRA]

I thought everyone on PDF is accustomed to read his posts and it would be rude to ask him to change.

Must understand that fundamentally posts of @Mangus Ortus Novem are addressed to Pakistani audience, and sometimes, to Indian Muslims and Bangladeshi. Many of this audience, including myself, can deeply relate to these posts, particularly, in emotional and psychological terms. If you care to notice, he hardly ever enters into an argument with Indian posters, per se. He is our "man in Netherlands".

 

[padamchen]

What? Surrender to a pogrom? And what sedition are you talking about? What collusion with the enemy? Do you want me to take you through events in a time-line?



So we wait to be raided, imprisoned and killed, and that is all right? Are you serious?

No one said anything about surrendering.

But going to the enemy (regardless of your personal view to the contrary) is as good as declaring war on your nation.

Which is what Afrazul has clearly said in so many posts of his.

And Xeuss is flirting on the border with ... for now.

You've gone dark again buddy.

It's Burhan Wani once again.

 

[Naofumi]

This mess in inescapable.

And stems from a botched up Partition.

But you can always settle in Iran after the Ayatollah's regime falls .
BTW, Did any Indian Parsi migrated to Iran under Shah's regime?

 

[Sharma Ji]

And what of the war that is being waged on Muslims? The Christians are next on the list. You already know about the attacks on liberal Hindus. What exactly should we wait for? To have our houses raided and to be jailed, like those accused of inciting riots against the Marathas, when the Marathas themselves attacked the Mahars?

What war is there with Pakistan? The only war - the only casualties, the only POWs - are existing citizens of the country. What will you do to ensure their security? If you do not ensure their security, what are you proposing? That they all push their chins up for the blade to pass more easily?

And then they came for me

and we had chai/samosa and a grand old time singing:

"bhakt jano ke sankat, das jano ke sankat

Modi kshand me door kare

Om jai jagadish hare"

 

[padamchen]

But you can always settle in Iran after the Ayatollah's regime falls .
BTW, Did any Indian Parsi migrated to Iran under Shah's regime?

Flippant 20 year olds.

My son is 23.

 

[Joe Shearer]

This mess in inescapable.

And stems from a botched up Partition.

Oh really? The jaded Sanghi line? Is that the best the IT cell could think up? What exactly should have been done? Partition Bombay down the middle? Produce little enclaves in Poona? Maybe hand over all of Kutch to the Junagadh state?

Or were you thinking of more ambitious measures, like, oh, split the Punjab, split Bengal, something crazy like that?

What a cheap shot, Doc, considering we lost all touch with our ancestral legacy, and you continue to loll around without shedding a drop of blood.

 

[SIPRA]

@Joe Shearer
@padamchen

Baraadraan: Jab aap kay darmiyaan faisla ho geya; tau mujhay zaroor khabar ker daina.

 

[Naofumi]

Flippant 20 year olds.

My son is 23.

My apologies doc.

 

[Joe Shearer]

No one said anything about surrendering.

But going to the enemy (regardless of your personal view to the contrary) is as good as declaring war on your nation.

Which is what Afrazul has clearly said in so many posts of his.

And Xeuss is flirting on the border with ... for now.

You've gone dark again buddy.

It's Burhan Wani once again.

LOL.

Grow up, Doc.

Burhan Wani was a posturing kid; if he had been taken alive, nothing, NOTHING would have happened. Unlike you, I have excellent connections in Kashmir still. I don't depend on some right-wing blowhard on the news telling me what's going on.

And as far as @AfrazulMandal and @xeuss are concerned, what exactly is the option you are giving them? The Muslim equivalent of letting Sanghis parade through your fire-temples?

 

[padamchen]

I am out of this man.

I don't have bp but this guy is hellbent on giving it to me.

 

[TheGreatMaratha]

Just to reply to that point, modern European marriage law is based on Sharia law. Please read this post of mine from earlier in this thread.

Thanks for sharing this. The marriage and divorce laws are good. But why are 2 women witnesses equal to 1 man witness? Why should non-Muslims convert to Islam to marry a Muslim?

Why are husbands allowed to beat women?

Also, why don't all Muslim countries follow the Sharia laws in their entirety? Isn't everything perfect and sacrosanct?

But many people here still haven't understood the point I'm alluding to. There are certain things which cannot be allowed in the present modern world.

https://www.thenational.ae/world/af...s-sharia-amputation-of-hand-and-foot-1.366294

I'm against amputations for highway robberies. I'm against beheading. These things should especially not be carried out for robberies. There's a thing called second chance.

 

[Naofumi]

Thanks for sharing this. The marriage and divorce laws are good. But why are 2 women witnesses equal to 1 man witness? Why should non-Muslims convert to Islam to marry a Muslim?

Also, why don't all Muslim countries follow the Sharia laws in their entirety? Isn't everything perfect and sacrosanct?

But many people here still haven't understood the point I'm alluding to. There are certain things which cannot be allowed in the present modern world.

https://www.thenational.ae/world/af...s-sharia-amputation-of-hand-and-foot-1.366294

I'm against amputations for highway robberies. I'm against beheading. These things should especially not be carried out for robberies. There's a thing called second chance.

I think it's borderline theological discussion.