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Why India needs to rethink the Rafale deal

TimeTraveller

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Russian Ambassador in New Delhi Alexander Kadakin claims Chinese Sukhoi Flankers will swat the Rafale like mosquitoes, but what’s more worrying is India is willing to spend $30 billion on a stop-gap aircraft.

Fighter planes fall into two categories – the hunters and the hunted. The French are pitching their Rafale as the dogfight duke that is the crème de la crème of jet fighters. But the Russian side disagrees. Alexander Kadakin, Russia's ambassador in India, says Chinese-made Sukhoi-27s would be able to swat the Rafales like “mosquitoes on an August night.”

At this point it’s pointless to deliver the verdict on which aircraft is superior. The Rafale is a largely unknown commodity in aviation circles. Like most French fighters, it is most likely an unassuming, unspectacular but honest aircraft.

But what Kadakin left unsaid is ominous. First up, he said the hundreds of Su-27 Flankers supplied by Moscow to Beijing are much less advanced than the Flankers in India’s inventory. Now forget the Su-27 for a while and let’s talk about the two squadrons of the latest Su-35 Super Flanker that Russia has cleared for sale to China. This new iteration is a huge advancement over the already potent Su-27. If the aircraft's stupendous performance at the 2014 Paris Air Show is any indication then the Rafale is likely to fare even worse against the Su-35.

Costing dogfight

To be sure, the most significant aspect of the Rafale deal is the cost. Originally pegged at $10 billion, the size of the deal has climbed to a stratospheric $30 billion. So instead of bolstering the country’s air power, the Rafale is threatening to blow a gaping hole in India’s overstretched defence budget.

India may the third largest economy on the planet but in the backdrop of numerous projects requiring bucket loads of cash, New Delhi can’t afford to splurge on weapons, especially when alternatives are available for far less.

The IAF’s requirement of 126 aircraft can be quickly met – at a fraction of the cost of the Rafale – by inducting more numbers of the technologically superior Su-30s, which the IAF described as its “air dominance fighter,” and which is being produced at Hindustan Aeronautics Ltd (HAL).

Each Indian made Su-30 costs approximately $75 million per unit. So if the IAF goes for 126 of them, the total cost will come to under $10 billion, which coincidentally is the originally envisaged amount. Plus, the Sukhois will provide more bang for the buck. “These aircraft will be the high end of India’s air power, and can be expected to remain in the force past 2030, and are competitive with or superior to top-end European fighters and American F-15 variants,” says Defense Industry Daily.

Another option is to buy more of the – even more cheaper – MiG-29, which is the mainstay of India’s interceptor force, and which had shattered the morale of the Pakistan Air Force (PAF) during the 1999 Kargil War.
With the $20 billion or so saved, India can import leading edge aviation technology – from France, Russia, Germany or even the US to beef up its military aviation. With manufacturing declining in the US and Europe and thousands of defence sector jobs facing the axe, western engineers would be more than happy to work in India.

There is a precedent in this area. After 1991 when elite Soviet weapons engineers and scientists found their jobs gone, many of them found work at Chinese and South Korean companies – both military and civilian. Russian scientists and engineers ended up transforming the defence sector in both these Asian countries.

India too needs to tread the same path. Hiring unemployed or underemployed European defence sector workers would cut the development time frame of Indian defence projects. In fact, even Pakistan has a tenuous Russian connection. An administrator of Pakistan’s Space and Upper Atmosphere Research Commission from 1967 to 1970 was Polish aeronautical engineer air commodore Wladyslaw Turowicz. Born in Siberia, the Pole made significant contributions to Pakistan’s missile programme as an aeronautical engineer.

That brings up the third option. India’s homemade Tejas light combat aircraft (LCA) is being fielded in limited numbers, and further development can easily make it a world class fighter. India can then produce hundreds of LCAs costing around $40 million – for the IAF. For decades, China has adopted this policy of having hundreds of obsolete aircraft because “quantity has a quality all its own”.

Sending hundreds of LCAs swarming into Pakistani air space would completely overwhelm that country’s defences. In effect, the Tejas fleet would kick the door in, allowing the Sukhois to pulverise targets with the supersonic BrahMos cruise missiles.

The LCA even become the military equivalent of India’s $2000 TATA Nano car, for which there was a waiting list in Sri Lanka. Similarly, the LCA could be the ideal export aircraft to small countries with limited budgets. Aircraft such as the Su-30, MiG-29 and F-18 are too expensive and too big for the use of such nations. India could be the first to market a no-frills fighter.


Why Rafale?


When the MMRCA tender was floated over a decade ago, it seemed like a good idea. One, it was aimed at lowering India’s overwhelming dependence on Russia for advanced weapons.

Secondly, India wanted to acquire a medium aircraft that would fill the gap between the low-end LCA and the premium Sukhois.

The third reason was to shore up the IAF's depleting fighter fleet. The IAF’s sanctioned strength is 39.5 squadrons (an IAF combat squadron consists of 18 aircraft in service with another 3-4 in maintenance) but its current fleet is down to 34 squadrons. The air force says it requires 44 squadrons to meet a full-scale war with Pakistan, while also maintaining "a dissuasive posture" against China.

Earlier this year, the IAF told a Parliamentary standing committee on defence that a "collusive threat" from China and Pakistan would be difficult for it to handle. This was played up by the media, which failed to see the fine print: the IAF admitted (in the same statement) China may not pose “a collusive threat” if hostilities were to break out between India and Pakistan.

Indeed, why would the Chinese team up with a rapidly balkanizing Pakistan and attack a fellow BRICS member? It is not only counterintuitive but also a ridiculous idea.

Qualitatively, the IAF is on an upward curve. In fact, in an interview to the media in 2012, former air force chief N.A.K. Browne gave the lie to the claim that the IAF was becoming weaker. According to Browne, the IAF is replacing older MiG-21s with Su-30s. He said once older aircraft are replaced with brand new Sukhois the IAF will have “far greater capability than even what we have today”.

If India and France sort out the numerous issues dogging the MMRCA deal and a contract is signed this year, then the first 18 Rafales will arrive from France in 2016. If all goes smoothly, the rest of the 102 aircraft could start rolling off HAL’s assembly lines by 2018.

But here’s the rub: around 2020 Sukhoi’s stealth fighter, the PAK-FA, in which India is a junior partner, will be ready to join the IAF. Why India is committing itself to a stopgap aircraft is mysterious.


Source : Why India needs to rethink the Rafale deal | Russia & India Report
 
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The cost is the reason it should be reconsidered, not the capabilities of the air-frame as the Russian Ambassador is very, very wrong. He's just trying to attract some business for his nation at the expense of France. The cost of the Rafale deal has escalated too much.
 
The cost is the reason it should be reconsidered, not the capabilities of the air-frame as the Russian Ambassador is very, very wrong. He's just trying to attract some business for his nation at the expense of France. The cost of the Rafale deal has escalated too much.

cost is escalating because of delays and India wanting to build most of the Rafales in India.
 
cost is escalating because of delays and India wanting to build most of the Rafales in India.
Honestly speaking then no one knows about cost except negotiating teams. All figures we hear are just wild guesses which vary from 16 Billion USD to 26 Billion USD.
PS: Oh wait, Its 30 billion USD according to this Russian official. LOLs.
 
it was the cover provided by the MiG-29 that spooked – and demoralised – the PAF pilots. :haha:. My question is? Why you didn;t entered our territory. LOL

We routinely enter your territory. This was especially the case when we used Foxbats as reconnosiance planes. Now we use our sats.

Honestly speaking then no one knows about cost except negotiating teams. All figures we hear are just wild guesses which vary from 16 Billion USD to 26 Billion USD.
PS: Oh wait, Its 30 billion USD according to this Russian official. LOLs.

One thing is clear they used lifecycle cost analysis this time. So it looks 'bigger' but is actually cheaper during the whole life span.
 
The cost is crazy for a stop-gap measure, especially a stop-gap measure that was needed back in 2001.

Why not invest that money in your own indigenous defence industries, imagine how happy they would be to get $30 billion. That would be the better long-term option, but many in India believe they don't have the "time" for that, given their security vulnerability in the present.

Short-termism seriously hurts the long-term prospects for their indigenous defence capabilities, but that is their choice.
 
seems kinda unprofessional on the part of the Russians.
They're pretty desperate to grab the $30 billion contract! So they'll do their darnedest to put a spoke in the wheel and spread canards.

My friend who was a test pilot at HAL, Bangalore, has flown most fighters including the Eurofighter, Gripen, MiGs, F-16s, SUs etc, including the SU-27 in Russia that the Russian official mentioned. The Rafale is miles ahead on most counts. Period! There's nothing close to it! The avionics especially are simply mind blowing! The SU-27 which the PLAAF has, and which this Russian official is bragging about, is nowhere in the picture.
 
We routinely enter your territory. This was especially the case when we used Foxbats as reconnosiance planes. Now we use our sats.



One thing is clear they used lifecycle cost analysis this time. So it looks 'bigger' but is actually cheaper during the whole life span.


if the total procurement cost is really $20 billion or more the total life cycle cost of the Rafale will be $80 billion to $100 billion, yikes :flame:
 
if the total procurement cost is really $20 billion the total life cycle cost of the Rafale will be $80 billion to $100 billion, yikes :flame:

No, the lie-cycle is lesser, where did you get this 'total procurement cost' figure? Besides, who came up with the lame Idea that this is some 'srop gap'? It'll be serving for 30+ years.

They're pretty desperate to grab the $30 billion contract! So they'll do their darnedest to put a spoke in the wheel and spread canards.

My friend who was a test pilot at HAL, Bangalore, has flown most fighters including the Eurofighter, Gripen, MiGs, F-16s, SUs etc, including the SU-27 in Russia that the Russian official mentioned. The Rafale is miles ahead on most counts. Period! There's nothing close to it! The avionics especially are simply mind blowing! The SU-27 which the PLAAF has, and which this Russian official is bragging about, is nowhere in the picture.

Besides Su 30 itself is an evolution of Su 27. With the MKIs we are covering in the heavy category what the best of this family can give. Having a different mid platform is good, especially coz our top end (FGFA) is also from Sukhoi, we don't want all our eggs in one basket.
 
No, the lie-cycle is lesser, where did you get this 'total procurement cost' figure? Besides, who came up with the lame Idea that this is some 'srop gap'? It'll be serving for 30+ years.
http://www.ipcs.org/pdf_file/issue/SR126-NSP-IndiaandtheRafale.pdf

They're pretty desperate to grab the $30 billion contract! So they'll do their darnedest to put a spoke in the wheel and spread canards.

My friend who was a test pilot at HAL, Bangalore, has flown most fighters including the Eurofighter, Gripen, MiGs, F-16s, SUs etc, including the SU-27 in Russia that the Russian official mentioned. The Rafale is miles ahead on most counts. Period! There's nothing close to it! The avionics especially are simply mind blowing! The SU-27 which the PLAAF has, and which this Russian official is bragging about, is nowhere in the picture.

I agree. Rafale is miles ahead of the SU-27 in avionics and with SPECTRA is unbeatable. SU-27 RCS is huge compared to the Rafale RCS add Meteor and AWAKS they stand no chance, and anyhow Rafale is MULTIROLE not sure why they are comparing SU-27 to Rafale when the SU-30MKI and Pak-FA would be swatting SU-27 out of the sky like mosquitoes lol
 

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