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When will Pakistan become a 1st world country?

Mullahs in Pakistan do not enjoy anywhere near as much influence as in Saudi Arabia. And since most of Pakistani elite are not mullahs so its only natural next generation will be even more relatively liberal and open. When most of population move to cities and with it power, what do you think will happen? I can think of many laws which will be changed in coming generation if last 8 years are anything to go by.
Still, I hope the next few generations do something other than just copying what they see in today's developed countries. Ideologies and countries rise and fall. Just because they are successful today doesn't mean they'll be successful forever, or that their system can't be improved upon.
 
At current trajectory I would say 2040 to become a BRIC nation.

2070 to become a developed 1st world country barring any major wars or an abnormal shift in global geopolitics.

Any other thoughts?

Not until you remain a religion based country.....Till religion plays centre-piece to state affairs...Forget.
 
Not until you remain a religion based country.....Till religion plays centre-piece to state affairs...Forget.
Religion plays a massive bit in the US, with congress and voters rallying around evangelical concepts; voting on topics as diverse as religious freedom down to homosexual rights on that basis. Clearly, the most powerful nation in the world did just fine with religion.
 
First thing is get rid of madarrasas and jahil mullahs get rid of religious extremism give quality education to Pakistanis and than you will see the change in 10-20 years. Basically first we've to tackle this problem.
QadrifuneralREUTER_2758278f.jpg

When you make a hero out of a murderer than don't even think of becoming a first world country.
 
copying what they see in today's developed countries
Human being aspire and look upto success not failure. Would you be happier if the well off in Pakistan copied Somalis or Chadians?

successful today doesn't mean they'll be successful forever,
When they start failing they will lose their appeal. Whatever is the 'in' then will become popular. That is how the world is.

Not until you remain a religion based country.....Till religion plays centre-piece to state affairs...Forget.
Agree. However as economy improves, as generational drift aggregates religious influence will slowly wither - example of this is the slow demise of the Catholic church in Ireland which has inversely plunged with the rise of the Celtic Tiger.

Religion plays a massive bit in the US, with congress and voters rallying around evangelical concepts; voting on topics as diverse as religious freedom down to homosexual rights on that basis. Clearly, the most powerful nation in the world did just fine with religion.
However it is a secular state. Homosexuality is still legal.
 
There seems to be a constant confusion among members as to what makes a 1st world country.
It is not the way you dress or whether you have homosexual rights or not, it is the ability to dominate a large percentage of world affairs and dictate economic terms.

Traditionally, the role has been assigned to the West or Northern countries since the neo-liberal capitalist system has been made to exploit the South to provide for the sustenance of the north. So in effect, the purpose of the 3rd world is to provide for the 1st world.

To be 1st world, you need to be the end user; be the main consumer or dominate the economics of smaller nations.
As such, Pakistan is not EVER going to be in that category.

The rest of the usual piecemeal arguments of liberal or Islamic or Buddhist are just bits for the lesser educated or those with lesser exposure to the world. When you are unable to afford a BMW as your neighbour does, your mind immediately goes to being exploited, to how they dress or behave.. to find almost consistent faults that are able to satisfy your inferiority complex at their material possessions.

Beyond that, there is nothing in Islam that requires you to actively interfere in another person's life unless they are causing harm to humanity. Anything else is just acting out your own frustration at your own perception of underachieving in life.

However it is a secular state. Homosexuality is still legal.
It was not until the 70's, and even now.. the very champion of homosexual rights in Pres Obama opposed it during his election bid by calling it a threat to the institution of marriage. That landed him the votes of the rust belt.

Religion has, is and will play a role in American life for a while.

The state being secular in constitution does nothing to stop its governance being done on religious lines.
 
governance being done on religious lines.
If it was do you really think abortion, gay rights would even be contemplated let alone legalized? Religion in US is like in many countries is just used by some groups to reinforce the right leaning capitalist class to secure their privilages and at the same time advance the pro Jewish lobby. In this scheme of things healthcare for the poor, rights for the ethnic groups like Latinos or Blacks are dirty words but liberal tax laws for the rich, support for Israel, anti gay sentiments are 'praise the lord'.

However all that does not detract from the fact that the US is a secular state with a consitution that expressly confirms it as such.
 

If that Picture represents all of Chinese culture, this picture represents all of Pakistani culture:
View attachment 350435

Better tag some Chinese members if we want to discuss their culture rather than just using google images.
@Chinese-Dragon

Haha that was one of the biggest TV shows in China a while back. Zhao Wei became famous in China from that show. Yes that is Chinese culture, though a subset of it, Manchu culture specifically, as shown by the hairstyles.

The definitions of 1st/2nd/3rd world are a bit political in nature, I'd rather use the terms developed and developing countries.
 
What makes a 1st world country 1st world and a 3rd world country 3rd world.

Its not money (Saudi Arabia has alot of money but is still considered 3rd World)

its definitely not accepting homosexuality ( Australia is a 1st world country but homosexuals don't have the right to get married and still frowned upon)

So who are first world countries. The term "First World" refers to so called developed, capitalist, industrial countries, roughly, a bloc of countries aligned with the United States after World War II, with more or less common political and economic interests: North America, Western Europe, Japan and Australia.

"Second World" refers to the former communist-socialist, industrial states, (formerly the Eastern bloc, the territory and sphere of influence of the Union of Soviet Socialists Republic) today: Russia, Eastern Europe (e.g., Poland) and some of the Turk States (e.g., Kazakhstan) as well as China.

"Third World" are all the other countries, today often used to roughly describe the developing countries of Africa, Asia and Latin America.
The term Third World includes as well capitalist (e.g., Venezuela) and communist (e.g., North Korea) countries, as very rich (e.g., Saudi Arabia) and very poor (e.g., Mali) countries.

So according to the above definitions Pakistan will never become a 1st world country.

Now the goal should be to become a developed country. So how do you achieve that.

1. Eliminate Corruption
2. Bring in Meritocracy
3. Provide high level of justice and rule of Law
4. Improve standard of living ( Education and Health )
5. improve GDP
6. Improve Per capita income
7. Develop Infrastructure
8. etc etc

Hope this helps
 
If it was do you really think abortion, gay rights would even be contemplated let alone legalized? Religion in US is like in many countries is just used by some groups to reinforce the right leaning capitalist class to secure their privilages and at the same time advance the pro Jewish lobby. In this scheme of things healthcare for the poor, rights for the ethnic groups like Latinos or Blacks are dirty words but libeal tax laws for the rich, support for Israel, anti gay sentiments are 'praise the lord'.

However all that does not detract from the fact that the US is a secular state with a consitution that expreslly confirms it as such.

There is a difference in religion playing a role in governance to religion controlling governance unopposed.
 
I know. That is what I said in my my first post. The mindset that brought about industrialization also set into motion complex changes in those societies - out of which was born what you see today. Any country that travels the same journey ends up almost at the same station with minor differances. Because the West was first to travel that road of progress it became typecast. Fact is any country, for instance China, as it moves along te path of economic development is begining to appear more and more like 1st world. That is why as I said Shanghai, Hong Kong, Tokyo or London have little differance because all have consummated the industrial process.
I would argue that this is not the 'natural' or inevitable course of things. The West has exerted significant power throughout the world through colonialism, which is how the foundation of Westernisation was set. It of course continues to exert influence to bring nations towards its system and ideology.

That doesn't mean that's the only way forward. It's already blatantly obvious that without significant reform, even their economic system is not sustainable for the long term. Climate change, the rise of things like TTIP etc - it's not all great in the West. Their strength lies in the fact that they have institutions that will work properly to solve these problems.

When Pakistan consummates the industrial process it will also look very similar top tokyo or Shanghai in mind and matter along with similar social evils

Yes, if Pakistan simply 'consummates' the Western-style Industrial process, it will lead to similar paths. Obviously, if we just copy the society, we will get the same 'social evils'.

But something that's not so obvious is that within the inner cities of Tokyo, Shanghai, and even London, are the workers upon which all that is built, and they are not living very great lives.

Sure, we'll give education to everyone, that will be great - except when everyone is so educated that there's no one left to do the hard work. Then you need immigrants from poorer countries to do it. What happens when the immigrants are just as educated and their countries are just as developed? Even with education, just look at the problems the UK is having with the NHS, for example. There's even a problem called 'over-education'.

The Western system requires a supply of workers make it work. Currently, the third world is that supply.

My point is that why must we be so close minded as to limit ourselves to what the West has? Is that really our highest ideal? Can we not imagine a system better than that, a system that is consistent with our cultural and religious beliefs?

I simply don't believe that the current Western system is ideal for the entire world to just adopt.
 
Haha that was one of the biggest TV shows in China a while back. Zhao Wei became famous in China from that show. Yes that is Chinese culture, though a subset of it, Manchu culture specifically, as shown by the hairstyles.

The definitions of 1st/2nd/3rd world are a bit political in nature, I'd rather use the terms developed and developing countries.
What's your opinion on the influence of Western culture on China? I am quite interested as to whether Conservatives in China are similar to Pakistanis in terms of skepticism of the West etc. Do you think legalizing things like same-sex marriage is essential to becoming a developed country?
 
The definitions of 1st/2nd/3rd world are a bit political in nature, I'd rather use the terms developed and developing countries.
Yes, I agree. Terms like 'Western' or '1st world' are pass their sell by date in the context of what we are discussing - socio-economic changes brought about by developing economies. My point is simple. Economic development engenders certain characteristics. That is any people who move along the path of development will end up sharing similar features. That is being deveopled produces certain feartures in societies. Religion becomes secondary. Spiritual thinking or religious myths are replaced by hard logic and the focus shifts to economic improvement rather than salving souls. This applies to China as much as to UK. Chinese today display more features with Britain then they do with Pakistan. Emphasis on economics, the temporal rather than religious. Move with the times, not be incumbered with the past but instead looking to the future. Believing in and having total confidence in thinking that change is in our hands rather than on prayers or some transient super entity.

The belief that destiny lies in our hands. That we can make the future.
 
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